Poll

Would you trade Marcus Smart for the unprotected 2016 Suns pick?

Yes
7 (15.2%)
No
39 (84.8%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?  (Read 11083 times)

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Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2016, 06:57:45 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I would but only because we have a horse in the race and adding another horse would give us two horses. And two horses is better than one horse if you want a better chance at winning the race.
The difference between 1 horse and 2 horses is the same as the difference between 0 horses and 1 horse.
But 2 horses is less than 3 horses.
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Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2016, 07:06:39 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I understand your interest in the topic, but the fact is these trades just don't really happen (unless I've missed one). While the risk / reward may be fun to talk about, no GM is willing to risk the egg on their face should they trade away what turns out to be the #1 pick.

Wasn't Kyrie drafted #1 overall using a pick that was traded in the season leading up to that draft?

Also I think Aldridge was drafted #2 overall under those same circumstances but I could be wrong.
The Cavs #1 pick in 2011 had the 8th best odds so thats a little different.

Aldridge was picked with a pick that had the 5th best odds so that is probably your best comparison.

Also that trade was made in October when it wasnt evident that the pick would be a top 5 pick.

Good call - I should have looked up final records for those seasons. 

Do you actually remember it not being evident that the Aldridge pick would be top 5 or are you just saying it probably was that way because it was traded in October?  Only bringing it up because even back in October people had expectations of Nets '16 being top 5.
My fault here. The pick was actually the second best odds and ended up being second.

I dont recall what the expectations were for the Knicks that year. However at a glance it looks like the had some injuries, but they were never very good. I think their record was never better than 13 and 21
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Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2016, 07:14:04 PM »

Offline Who

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I understand your interest in the topic, but the fact is these trades just don't really happen (unless I've missed one). While the risk / reward may be fun to talk about, no GM is willing to risk the egg on their face should they trade away what turns out to be the #1 pick.

Wasn't Kyrie drafted #1 overall using a pick that was traded in the season leading up to that draft?

Also I think Aldridge was drafted #2 overall under those same circumstances but I could be wrong.
The Cavs #1 pick in 2011 had the 8th best odds so thats a little different.

Aldridge was picked with a pick that had the 5th best odds so that is probably your best comparison.

Also that trade was made in October when it wasnt evident that the pick would be a top 5 pick.

Good call - I should have looked up final records for those seasons. 

Do you actually remember it not being evident that the Aldridge pick would be top 5 or are you just saying it probably was that way because it was traded in October?  Only bringing it up because even back in October people had expectations of Nets '16 being top 5.
My fault here. The pick was actually the second best odds and ended up being second.

I dont recall what the expectations were for the Knicks that year. However at a glance it looks like the had some injuries, but they were never very good. I think their record was never better than 13 and 21

Oh, that was the Eddy Curry trade.

Knicks were a slightly below .500 team that was making a push to -- and expected to -- get back into to the playoffs.

Eddy Curry was one of the most talented young bigs in the game. Was the starting center for a 47 win Chicago team. Scored 16ppg in just 28mpg. Widely considered to be one of the best low post scorers in the league already. Needed to improve his defense and rebounding to fulfill his All-Star potential. Only 22/23 years old.

They had just signed Larry Brown as head coach to a huge contract. One of the top coaches in the league. A strong defensive coach. Thought Brown would be big upgrade for a team that was underachieving a bit last year and struggled a lot on defense.

Anyway, Curry never developed. Brown was a disaster. Curry never developed. Knicks plummeted in the standings. Then there was the Steve Francis trade. The Francis = Marbury situation. More fuel on the fire. Brown was fired.

The sign and trade for Curry was late in the offseason because of the heart problem stuff.

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2016, 07:14:18 PM »

Offline wiley

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.

The problem with this post is that it's not a fantasy league.  It's an actual league with real teams, real players and real outcomes.

You cannot throw around terms like hypocrisy and homerism in your fantasy league and then brush it on folks dealing with the real league.

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2016, 07:25:13 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.

The problem with this post is that it's not a fantasy league.  It's an actual league with real teams, real players and real outcomes.

You cannot throw around terms like hypocrisy and homerism in your fantasy league and then brush it on folks dealing with the real league.

Yeah, and some of us really do value Smart more than Parker / Okafor and I believe a number of gms would as well. As has been stated a number of times, just because a player was drafted higher doesn't mean they are automatically better.

I would say Okafor is definitely closer than Parker, though.

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2016, 07:31:24 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
When you're trying to compare the value of a future assett (the pick) to flesh and blood player (Smart) there are a lot of variables I don't think you're accounting for. Trading Smart for a pick would mean the team taking a step backwards immediatley. Trading a pick for a player would, probably, have the opposite affect.

It's not as simple of a comparison as you're making it out to be.
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Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2016, 07:37:13 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
When you're trying to compare the value of a future assett (the pick) to flesh and blood player (Smart) there are a lot of variables I don't think you're accounting for. Trading Smart for a pick would mean the team taking a step backwards immediatley. Trading a pick for a player would, probably, have the opposite affect.

It's not as simple of a comparison as you're making it out to be.
Its kind of like when some one suggest the Nets could win 50 games when outside of a Brooklyn-centric forum the consensus would be that they will be one of the worst teams in the league.
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Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2016, 07:39:45 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
When you're trying to compare the value of a future assett (the pick) to flesh and blood player (Smart) there are a lot of variables I don't think you're accounting for. Trading Smart for a pick would mean the team taking a step backwards immediatley. Trading a pick for a player would, probably, have the opposite affect.


Which doesn't explain why fanbase is unwilling to move a risky pick for an elite prospect like Okafor or Jabari.

And yeah, I get it.  There's always going to be an element of homerism.  Smart looks improved recently.  He's our backup guard.  He's playing pretty well.  He still might have a bright future.   

Easy to overlook the faults of "our guy" while dismissing the value of arguably better prospects like Okafor/Jabari. 

It is pretty funny that the majority here thinks Smart is worth more than the Suns pick... but our Brooklyn pick is worth more than either Jabari or Okafor.   

Obviously, non-Celtic fans would have jabari and Okafor over smart while a Celtic forum will have Smart over Jabari and Okafor.   Either way, I personally believe all three prospects are worth more than either of those unknown draft picks. 

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2016, 07:40:49 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.

Have you ever considered the fact you are not always right?

Your huge ego and "clearly I am right, and there are too many stupid fans here" attitude gets extraordinarily old.

You post here like you are better and smarter than every last person, and as if you personally have your finger on the beat of what NBA GMs are thinking.

Get over yourself.

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2016, 07:42:55 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
When you're trying to compare the value of a future assett (the pick) to flesh and blood player (Smart) there are a lot of variables I don't think you're accounting for. Trading Smart for a pick would mean the team taking a step backwards immediatley. Trading a pick for a player would, probably, have the opposite affect.


Which doesn't explain why fanbase is unwilling to move a risky pick for an elite prospect like Okafor or Jabari.

And yeah, I get it.  There's always going to be an element of homerism.  Smart looks improved recently.  He's our backup guard.  He's playing pretty well.  He still might have a bright future.   

Easy to overlook the faults of "our guy" while dismissing the value of arguably better prospects like Okafor/Jabari. 

It is pretty funny that the majority here thinks Smart is worth more than the Suns pick... but our Brooklyn pick is worth more than either Jabari or Okafor.   

Obviously, non-Celtic fans would have jabari and Okafor over smart while a Celtic forum will have Smart over Jabari and Okafor.   Either way, I personally believe all three prospects are worth more than either of those unknown draft picks.

Okafor should be sitting in jail right now, but I notice that that is of no concern to you.

If you know so much, why are you sitting here posting with the rest of us know-nothing chumps?

Shouldn't you be a scout or GM with all that ball knowledge you have?

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 07:51:14 PM »

Offline Who

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It is pretty funny that the majority here thinks Smart is worth more than the Suns pick... but our Brooklyn pick is worth more than either Jabari or Okafor.   

You are talking about 3 players here who people's opinions of them differ hugely.

* Some people think J.Okafor is an All-Star center. Maybe a franchise center.
* Other people think he is an above average starter (future wise) but not a top star.
* Others think he is so flawed and post game is so out of date that his value is even lower than that.
* Raw stats are pretty impressive but in terms of advanced stats - I don't think there is anybody playing big minutes who is hurting their team more than Okafor is right now. How each fan values each set of those numbers will play a big factor in their opinion of him.

I expected Smart to score the ball the better his first two years in the league but as much as Smart has struggled offensively relative to expectations, J.Parker has struggled even more offensively (11ppg = only 26% FG% on jump-shots outside of 15 feet, won't even shoot 3s) relative to expectations (20ppg, one of most well rounded scorers in league).

Then consider that Jabari is one of the worst defensive forwards in the league today. Unable to cope against the strength of PFs or the speed of SFs. Another guy who - don't know for sure but I expect - rates very badly in advanced stats. A non-defender, non-shooter, low scoring combo forward.

Opinions vary widely from his college performance to his NBA performance and how that difference should change his future projections.

That is even before we get to Smart -- who we know perfectly well that opinions differ on this site about his talent, scoring ability, playmaking and long term offensive potential.

There is no consensus on any of these guys. There is HUGE differences of opinion.



It's not like we are talking about Karl Towns or Anthony Davis here.

We are talking about 3 players with a lot of question marks next to them. A lot of doubts. And because of that, opinions are all over the place with these guys.

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2016, 08:00:28 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
Your huge ego and "clearly I am right, and there are too many stupid fans here" attitude gets extraordinarily old.
It does get old.  Imagine how I feel?  It's annoying that I'm apparently one of the only people here that sees the blatant ridiculous hypocrisy in 80% of a fanbase saying Smart is worth more than the Suns pick while the majority of that same fanbase thinks a worse Brooklyn pick is worth more than a better prospect that Smart.   

Okafor > Smart
Jabari > Smart
Suns Pick > Brooklyn pick

And yet...

Smart > Suns pick     
Nets pick > Jabari/Okafor

That don't make no sense.  I get it on the first one... I think Smart is worth more than a risky pick projected top 5 in February.   But I don't get it on the second one.   Parker and Okafor are both worth more than that Brooklyn pick. 

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2016, 08:09:25 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
Your huge ego and "clearly I am right, and there are too many stupid fans here" attitude gets extraordinarily old.
It does get old.  Imagine how I feel?  It's annoying that I'm apparently one of the only people here that sees the blatant ridiculous hypocrisy in 80% of a fanbase saying Smart is worth more than the Suns pick while the majority of that same fanbase thinks a worse Brooklyn pick is worth more than a better prospect that Smart.   

Okafor > Smart
Jabari > Smart
Suns Pick > Brooklyn pick

And yet...

Smart > Suns pick     
Nets pick > Jabari/Okafor

That don't make no sense.  I get it on the first one... I think Smart is worth more than a risky pick projected top 5 in February.   But I don't get it on the second one.   Parker and Okafor are both worth more than that Brooklyn pick.

This post exemplifies what I am saying very well,

you are so wrapped up in your own ego, so totally convinced that you are right, and smarter than the other idiots here, you can't even entertain the idea that Smart is a better prospect that either Oakfore (an immature idiot who because of this (and also playing on the sixers, a terrible jumpshot and god awful perimeter defense) will never come close to reaching his potential) and Jabari, who missed his first season, and is on a team that is worse than boston, despite the fact they have more "talent".

Like I asked before, have you ever considered the possibility you are NOT the smartest guy in the room, and are NOT always right?

Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2016, 08:10:10 PM »

Offline greenrunsdeep41

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
Your huge ego and "clearly I am right, and there are too many stupid fans here" attitude gets extraordinarily old.
It does get old.  Imagine how I feel?  It's annoying that I'm apparently one of the only people here that sees the blatant ridiculous hypocrisy in 80% of a fanbase saying Smart is worth more than the Suns pick while the majority of that same fanbase thinks a worse Brooklyn pick is worth more than a better prospect that Smart.   

Okafor > Smart
Jabari > Smart
Suns Pick > Brooklyn pick

And yet...

Smart > Suns pick     
Nets pick > Jabari/Okafor

That don't make no sense.  I get it on the first one... I think Smart is worth more than a risky pick projected top 5 in February.   But I don't get it on the second one.   Parker and Okafor are both worth more than that Brooklyn pick.

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Re: Would you trade Smart for the 2016 Suns pick?
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2016, 08:16:34 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Ok.  So does anyone see the hypocrisy in 76% of fans saying they wouldn't trade Marcus Smart for the Suns unprotected pick (3rd best odds)...

... while the majority of fans seem to say they wouldn't trade the Nets unprotected pick (4th best odds) for Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor (two prospects that would likely be seen as superior to Smart outside of a Boston-centric Forum). 

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter... since none of those trades would actually happen.  It's just interesting.  It's the epitome of homerism.
Your huge ego and "clearly I am right, and there are too many stupid fans here" attitude gets extraordinarily old.
It does get old.  Imagine how I feel?  It's annoying that I'm apparently one of the only people here that sees the blatant ridiculous hypocrisy in 80% of a fanbase saying Smart is worth more than the Suns pick while the majority of that same fanbase thinks a worse Brooklyn pick is worth more than a better prospect that Smart.   

Okafor > Smart
Jabari > Smart
Suns Pick > Brooklyn pick

And yet...

Smart > Suns pick     
Nets pick > Jabari/Okafor

That don't make no sense.  I get it on the first one... I think Smart is worth more than a risky pick projected top 5 in February.   But I don't get it on the second one.   Parker and Okafor are both worth more than that Brooklyn pick.

This post exemplifies what I am saying very well,

you are so wrapped up in your own ego, so totally convinced that you are right, and smarter than the other idiots here
Hey now.  Let's not call anyone names.  There's plenty of smart posters here.   

And I'm fully acknowledging that a team-centric forum will generally think their backup point guard is better than (insert other team's younger elite prospect).   I'm sure there's some Hawks fans out there who think Schroeder is better than Porzingus.  I wouldn't call those fans "idiots".  That's just part of fan culture.

And there's still a chance that Smart develops into a better player than Jabari Parker or Okafor.  You never know.   All these guys are young. 

But yeah... it's totally hypocritical to believe the Nets pick is more valuable than Okafor/Jabari while thinking Smart is more valuable than the Suns pick.    Doesn't matter either way, because none of those hypothetical trades would happen until the Summer.