Author Topic: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?  (Read 7886 times)

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Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2016, 06:12:10 PM »

Offline chambers

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Without knowing where it lands, I would.

But the 76ers would never trade him without knowing it will be a top 3 pick, so what's the point of the question?
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2016, 06:12:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Hey Lar you still trying to defend that Net's prediction you made?

Let it go man, even the best shooters in the world miss a free throw every now and again.
My guesstimation was contingent on the Nets staying healthy.  They didn't stay healthy.  You have to take the multiverse into account when evaluating any of my predictions. 

Also, in the "Healthy Nets" Timeline, my avatar looks like this:

 

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2016, 06:15:56 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Hey Lar you still trying to defend that Net's prediction you made?

Let it go man, even the best shooters in the world miss a free throw every now and again.

tp

Guys 2nd half of the season is a whole new ball game.

Nets haven't been healthy as team all season long.   

I would love that they just give up and trade Lopez, jack already.  But that owner will not let that happen it seems

Last thing he wants to be is the village idiot of the NBA and let the Celts grab Simmons or Ingram

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2016, 06:32:15 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Man... I'm thrilled with how bad Brooklyn has been.  Thanks to injuries, the worst-case scenario of Brooklyn making the playoffs is long gone.   At this point, it's basically a lock to end up in the lottery. 

But between this thread and the Jabari Parker thread, I really feel like people are still severely overrating that Brooklyn pick.

It's looking more-and-more likely that at the very least, the Suns will finish with a worst record.  So even if Brooklyn fails to go on a mini run and stays in the 4th worst spot, you're looking at the following odds:

#1 pick - 11.9%
#2 pick - 12.6%
#3 pick - 13.3%
#4 pick - 9.9%
#5 pick - 35.1%
#6 pick - 16%

We're still learning things about this draft so perhaps someone like Dragan Bender will be a superstar someday.  Maybe more "can't miss" prospects will be revealed.  But I've also heard plenty negativity recently... that Ben Simmons can't shoot and has inflated stats due to playing on a mediocre program against mediocre competition... that Brandon Ingram is a few years away from being anything... that this draft might be pretty terrible outside those two guys.

So then we're talking about a guy like Okafor.

I got news for you... a year ago (I checked Draftexpress archived from Feb 15th 2015), Okafor was considered the consensus #1 pick on mock drafts. 

So now midway through a rookie season the 20 year old is averaging 17 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.2 blocks with 49% shooting and 68% from the line...   and some people think the pick is more valuable?   Seriously? 

If things hold as-is, we're looking at an 88.1% chance that we do NOT get Ben Simmons... and who knows how we'll even look at Ben Simmons a year from now.

I think it's fair to expect Okafor to be a 20/10 guy long term.  Not sure about his defense, but his floor still seems to be Al Jefferson.   He's already almost a 20/10 guy as a rookie on a dysfunctional team. 

Say we land someone like Jaylen Brown with the 5th pick (our most likely draft position) and he puts up a Hezonja-esque 5 points, 2 rebounds and 1 steals.  How much will that asset be worth then compared to Okafor?

It's not even a guarantee that Ben SImmons will have a better career than Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor... and yet people here still insist that Brooklyn pick is more valuable than either of those guys.   I don't agree.

SIde note:  It's hilarious that people here will suggest someone like 26 year old Jae Crowder has untapped star potential in the 5th year of his career, but then look at a 20 year old prospect 46 games into a pretty decent rookie season and act like he's a fully-formed player.
I'm just sayin that some of ya'll act like the obnoxious friend you take to Vegas who inexplicably goes on a hot streak and now he's too drunk to know when to walk away from the table and cash in his winnings. 

"A chance at a star prospect like Okafor?  NAaah!!  Let it ride!!... Less than 10% chance at a guy who may or may not be better than him!! WOoOooo!!!"  (Note:  less than 10% chance, because you need to factor in the odds of additional teams falling below Brooklyn by the end of the season)


I'm just saying... February 10th, 2015 versions of you guys would be disgusted with this thread.

Hold up, I just used OSX Time Machine to backdate my digitized brain a whole year.  Here's what the Feb 2015 version of CyberLarB had to say:   "Wait a minute... you're telling me a year from now the consensus #1 pick Jahlil Okafor will be averaging 17 points, 7 rebounds, 1.2 blocks with 50% shooting in only 30 minutes with incredible touch around the rim... but I'll be unwilling to move a projected #5 pick for him?  WHAT?   That either means Okafor had a career ending injury or the 2016 draft is stacked with future hall of famers...   Woah, is that because of that Thon Maker kid I keep hearing about??!"


There's a good chance that February 10th, 2017 versions of you guys are going to be equally disgusted with this thread.

I'm disgusted now with how you act like the Nets were devastated by injuries when they have been one of the healthiest teams in the NBA and their two best players have played in every game. It is childish and embarrassing.
5 man team.  They lost 2 of them.  One was their starting PG.  The other was showing progress and arguably their best 2-way player (105 offensive rating was 2nd only to Lopez... 103 defensive rating 1st amongst starters)...   For a team as shallow as the Nets, those injuries were basically the apocalypse.  Any hope they had of making a bit of a run was squished.   Great for us!

Unfortunately stats and reality are not your friend on this debate.

https://www.mangameslost.com/nba-games-missed-due-to-injury-february-9-2016/

What's interesting about that link you shared... in the "lost value over replacement player" category, the Hollis-Jefferson injury is 5th in the entire league.  That's a bigger impact than games missed by Kyrie Irving (6th), games missed by Derrick Favors (7th) and games missed by Kevin Durant (8th).   Shows you how losing two of their top 4 players can impact such a shallow team.  If Hollis-Jefferson had continued to improve, your own site seems to suggest that the Nets would have been significantly better off.   

Even negating the possibility that Hollis-Jefferson continued to improve, the team started to mesh, and they followed the 2014 path where they rallied and finished above .500.... Had they simply remained 8 games under .500 they'd have a record around 23-31... same amount of wins as the Wizards and flirting with a pick in the expected 12-17 range. 

Luckily, the Nets have been mutilated with devastating injuries that have ravaged that desolate lineup and lay waste to their playoff hopes.  Here's hoping they continue to stink and the pick stays projected in the top 5. 

But yeah, i'd probably trade that pick for Okafor.  Who knows where it will land.  Okafor is a pretty nice and productive prospect already.   I think Okafor has more trade value than that unknown pick at this point. 

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2016, 07:14:38 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Hey Lar you still trying to defend that Net's prediction you made?

Let it go man, even the best shooters in the world miss a free throw every now and again.

tp

Guys 2nd half of the season is a whole new ball game.

Nets haven't been healthy as team all season long.   

I would love that they just give up and trade Lopez, jack already.  But that owner will not let that happen it seems

Last thing he wants to be is the village idiot of the NBA and let the Celts grab Simmons or Ingram

You too said that the Nets would make the playoffs unless they traded Lopez or Johnson.

Go back to the Nets thread and read the things you guys wrote. It was all about Lopez, Young, and Johnson. No mention of Jack or Hollis-Jefferson whatsoever. Now you pretend they're indespencible. If those guys are what you're banking playoff hopes on then that's a pretty good sign they suck.

The fact is you guys were wrong. Vegas, experts, and the majority of Cs blog was right. It's time to admit it.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2016, 07:15:58 PM »

Offline Birdman

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yup
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #81 on: February 10, 2016, 08:30:33 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Hey Lar you still trying to defend that Net's prediction you made?

Let it go man, even the best shooters in the world miss a free throw every now and again.

tp

Guys 2nd half of the season is a whole new ball game.

Nets haven't been healthy as team all season long.   

I would love that they just give up and trade Lopez, jack already.  But that owner will not let that happen it seems

Last thing he wants to be is the village idiot of the NBA and let the Celts grab Simmons or Ingram

You too said that the Nets would make the playoffs unless they traded Lopez or Johnson.

Go back to the Nets thread and read the things you guys wrote. It was all about Lopez, Young, and Johnson. No mention of Jack or Hollis-Jefferson whatsoever. Now you pretend they're indespencible. If those guys are what you're banking playoff hopes on then that's a pretty good sign they suck.

The fact is you guys were wrong. Vegas, experts, and the majority of Cs blog was right. It's time to admit it.

I will when you admit, you were dead wrong about Mickey

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #82 on: February 10, 2016, 08:53:56 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Without knowing where it lands, I would.

But the 76ers would never trade him without knowing it will be a top 3 pick, so what's the point of the question?

Agree.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2016, 09:06:07 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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no... he does not fit what we are trying to do.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2016, 09:32:59 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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It's going to be really interesting to see what Okafor and Noel end up doing when those two are separated and playing on competent teams.

We've certainly seen extremely positive signs from both of them.   

Okafor's floor seems to be Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson.   I don't totally understand why people underestimate his potential/ceiling.  He's 20 years old.  Kid had 26 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and 2 blocks tonight with Noel out.  He should be a 20/10 guy long-term.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2016, 10:52:56 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Hey Lar you still trying to defend that Net's prediction you made?

Let it go man, even the best shooters in the world miss a free throw every now and again.

tp

Guys 2nd half of the season is a whole new ball game.

Nets haven't been healthy as team all season long.   

I would love that they just give up and trade Lopez, jack already.  But that owner will not let that happen it seems

Last thing he wants to be is the village idiot of the NBA and let the Celts grab Simmons or Ingram

You too said that the Nets would make the playoffs unless they traded Lopez or Johnson.

Go back to the Nets thread and read the things you guys wrote. It was all about Lopez, Young, and Johnson. No mention of Jack or Hollis-Jefferson whatsoever. Now you pretend they're indespencible. If those guys are what you're banking playoff hopes on then that's a pretty good sign they suck.

The fact is you guys were wrong. Vegas, experts, and the majority of Cs blog was right. It's time to admit it.

I will when you admit, you were dead wrong about Mickey

I hope I am, but right now all we know is that Mickey is a good d-league guy that can't crack our rotation.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2016, 12:00:26 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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No. 

Okafor is a sub par player with a sub par attitude who only looks good because he's playing on a historically garbage team.

Not interested.  would rather Noel - he's horribly limited, but at least he seems to have a half decent attitude.

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2016, 12:09:40 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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It's going to be really interesting to see what Okafor and Noel end up doing when those two are separated and playing on competent teams.

We've certainly seen extremely positive signs from both of them.   

Okafor's floor seems to be Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson.   I don't totally understand why people underestimate his potential/ceiling.  He's 20 years old.  Kid had 26 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and 2 blocks tonight with Noel out.  He should be a 20/10 guy long-term.

1) Because that's one game

2) Because he is 7'0" / 275 pounds with a 7'5" wingspan and is barely managing to pull down 7 rebound a game

3) Because he is quite possibly the worst defensive big man in the entire NBA (legit competition for Enes Kanter)

4) Because he is out of weight and moves like a rhino in quicksand

5) Because he is completely incapable of stretching the floor due to complete lack of shooting range

6) Because he's a mediocre playmaker (~ 0.5 Assists : TO)

7) Because he doesn't get to the line (24% Free Throw Rate)

8) Because he has terrible scoring efficiency (1.145 Points Per FGA)


Hope that helps!

Re: Would you trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor?
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2016, 07:00:05 AM »

Offline Who

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Okafor's floor seems to be Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson.   I don't totally understand why people underestimate his potential/ceiling.  He's 20 years old.
Because what separates a great big man prospect from a good big man prospect is quickness, mobility and overall athleticism.

The problem with Okafor is that already (at 20yrs old), he is one of the slowest, least mobile and least athletic starting centers in the league.