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Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?

2018 Nets pick
2018 Grizzlies pick (including protections)

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Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 03:33:18 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I voted trade the MEM pick, but it's extremely close. Memphis have 2 or 3 years left with this core, assuming Conley stays past this summer. Come 2019 this team will be in rebuild mode and it could very well go to 2021 unprotected. At the moment the Nets pick is more valuable but in a year or two it could well be the Memphis pick

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2016, 03:47:45 PM »

Offline ssspence

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As for the side perks, didn't exactly entice Aldridge or Monroe this past offseason. 

Did they sign in Memphis?

They signed where they did based on the hope of winning. How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace, but the BBQ is good."?

You see my point? The Nets are hitting the bottom now, and have a very attractive situation to offer. The Grizz aren't looking themselves in the mirror yet, though they should.
Mike

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Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 03:56:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I voted for Brooklyn as I believe Brooklyn will try to be good in 2018 and Memphis is just going to get worse as the protection on the pick gets better. 
are you under the impression that Memphis WON'T try to be good when they owe both Denver and us future picks?  I don't follow how you think Brooklyn who sucks will get better while Memphis who's good will get worse.

food for thought: Brooklyn may want to get better but when they have
-no draft picks
-1 prime player that has an injury history under contract
-nothing to lure good FAs to play there
they may have no choice in the matter.  LA didn't want to stink either but they couldn't draw flies this past offseason so when the team long thought of here as the prime FA destination strikes out, there's no reason to expect Brooklyn to fare any better.
Clearly the earliest Memphis will convey the pick is 2019.  I expect Memphis to be very bad in 2019 and thus not convey the pick to Boston.  I expect Memphis to be very bad in 2020, which may or may not convey the pick, which if it doesn't convey would then go unprotected in 2021 when I again expect Memphis to be very bad.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
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Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2016, 03:58:09 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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As for the side perks, didn't exactly entice Aldridge or Monroe this past offseason. 

Did they sign in Memphis?

They signed where they did based on the hope of winning. How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace, but the BBQ is good."?

You see my point? The Nets are hitting the bottom now, and have a very attractive situation to offer. The Grizz aren't looking themselves in the mirror yet, though they should.
They didn't sign in Memphis, but they may as well have since it makes my point.  San Antonio and Milwaukee don't offer what you're proclaiming is an irresistable allure of NYC life.

I'm not seeing an attractive situation in Brooklyn any time soon.  Memphis, while not contenders, aren't going to fall off the face of the earth like the Nets have after the KG/PP trade.


"How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace" but we still have a top center, really good PG, other good supporting players and all we need is one good player to be back in the mix.  Oh sure, you can go to Brooklyn where no one else is signing and wish you could make the playoffs or sign here and know that you will.

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2016, 04:04:28 PM »

Offline ssspence

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As for the side perks, didn't exactly entice Aldridge or Monroe this past offseason. 

Did they sign in Memphis?

They signed where they did based on the hope of winning. How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace, but the BBQ is good."?

You see my point? The Nets are hitting the bottom now, and have a very attractive situation to offer. The Grizz aren't looking themselves in the mirror yet, though they should.
They didn't sign in Memphis, but they may as well have since it makes my point.  San Antonio and Milwaukee don't offer what you're proclaiming is an irresistable allure of NYC life.

I'm not seeing an attractive situation in Brooklyn any time soon.  Memphis, while not contenders, aren't going to fall off the face of the earth like the Nets have after the KG/PP trade.


"How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace" but we still have a top center, really good PG, other good supporting players and all we need is one good player to be back in the mix.  Oh sure, you can go to Brooklyn where no one else is signing and wish you could make the playoffs or sign here and know that you will.

I think you're pretty clearly missing my point. Obviously I can see a player choosing a winning situation in a less sexy location over Brooklyn. Memphis is not one of them. It's a team on the decline -- period.

Meanwhile, i think you're discounting the draw of Brooklyn, and that Prokhorov will almost certainly hire a high level GM, and a Tier 1 (very expensive) coach this summer -- making the prospect of FAs teaming up and signing there either this summer or next highly conceivable, crushing the value of the 2018 pick.

Anyway we're belaboring the point. I get it. You keep the BKLN pick. I might too! It's a complicated bet.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2016, 04:24:31 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Nobody of significance is going to sign there. At best, they'll be like the Pistons of a few years ago and overpay for mediocre talent (Gordon & Villanueva). The east is also very young and teams are going to continue to conceivably improve with their young talent. Lopez's health is also a huge factor. In 2018 he will be 30 years old and it's not hard to imagine him going down.

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2016, 04:32:24 PM »

Offline Denis998

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As for the side perks, didn't exactly entice Aldridge or Monroe this past offseason. 

Did they sign in Memphis?

They signed where they did based on the hope of winning. How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace, but the BBQ is good."?

You see my point? The Nets are hitting the bottom now, and have a very attractive situation to offer. The Grizz aren't looking themselves in the mirror yet, though they should.
They didn't sign in Memphis, but they may as well have since it makes my point.  San Antonio and Milwaukee don't offer what you're proclaiming is an irresistable allure of NYC life.

I'm not seeing an attractive situation in Brooklyn any time soon.  Memphis, while not contenders, aren't going to fall off the face of the earth like the Nets have after the KG/PP trade.


"How does Memphis pitch that to FAs? "We're slowing getting older / slower / sliding down the standings in a league moving to faster pace" but we still have a top center, really good PG, other good supporting players and all we need is one good player to be back in the mix.  Oh sure, you can go to Brooklyn where no one else is signing and wish you could make the playoffs or sign here and know that you will.
Pitch: "you wont have to run up and down as much"

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2016, 04:49:25 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Nobody of significance is going to sign there. At best, they'll be like the Pistons of a few years ago and overpay for mediocre talent (Gordon & Villanueva). The east is also very young and teams are going to continue to conceivably improve with their young talent. Lopez's health is also a huge factor. In 2018 he will be 30 years old and it's not hard to imagine him going down.

This point has been made many times over in various threads and I don't get it. So let's say they overpay on mediocre talent for 2-3 years. Something like giving Eric Gordon the max for 3 years and signing Kent Bazemore to an overpriced deal. You think that makes them a worse team in 2017 or 2018? Having mediocre talent on that team still hurts the draft pick and that's what matters. In 2018 they could have a 35 win team easily and the pick becomes #12 or#13.

Memphis on the other hand is completely different. When they enter their rebuild there will be no overpaying going on, it'll be about saving cash and developing through the draft. So it's very conceivable that we could have an unprotected pick in 2021 from a team in a situation similar to the T-Wolves of this year. I really like that pick!

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2016, 05:31:57 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Nobody of significance is going to sign there. At best, they'll be like the Pistons of a few years ago and overpay for mediocre talent (Gordon & Villanueva). The east is also very young and teams are going to continue to conceivably improve with their young talent. Lopez's health is also a huge factor. In 2018 he will be 30 years old and it's not hard to imagine him going down.

This point has been made many times over in various threads and I don't get it. So let's say they overpay on mediocre talent for 2-3 years. Something like giving Eric Gordon the max for 3 years and signing Kent Bazemore to an overpriced deal. You think that makes them a worse team in 2017 or 2018? Having mediocre talent on that team still hurts the draft pick and that's what matters. In 2018 they could have a 35 win team easily and the pick becomes #12 or#13.

That doesn't move the needle at all. This improvement by free agent addition notion is often overrated. It's more about getting the right piece or you can have a situation like Stephenson with Charlotte or Monroe with the Bucks where the big shiny FA signing actually makes your team worse.

Re: Which would you rather trade: 2018 Nets pick v. 2018-ish Grizz pick?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2016, 06:21:56 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Nobody of significance is going to sign there. At best, they'll be like the Pistons of a few years ago and overpay for mediocre talent (Gordon & Villanueva). The east is also very young and teams are going to continue to conceivably improve with their young talent. Lopez's health is also a huge factor. In 2018 he will be 30 years old and it's not hard to imagine him going down.

This point has been made many times over in various threads and I don't get it. So let's say they overpay on mediocre talent for 2-3 years. Something like giving Eric Gordon the max for 3 years and signing Kent Bazemore to an overpriced deal. You think that makes them a worse team in 2017 or 2018? Having mediocre talent on that team still hurts the draft pick and that's what matters. In 2018 they could have a 35 win team easily and the pick becomes #12 or#13.

That doesn't move the needle at all. This improvement by free agent addition notion is often overrated. It's more about getting the right piece or you can have a situation like Stephenson with Charlotte or Monroe with the Bucks where the big shiny FA signing actually makes your team worse.

Doesn't move the needle at all? Adding Gordon isn't like adding Stephenson. Gordon is an outside threat who if healthy would be knocking on the all star door. Now is issue is he isn't healthy. Monroe hasn't made the Bucks worse, trading Knight made them worse but that's a separate argument.

A better example is Detroit last summer adding Morris and Ilyasova to complement Drummond. A big improvement in record from last year. Or the way Dallas put their roster together around Dirk and Parsons after the Jordan saga.

The critics never seem to acknowledge that there are some decent pieces in Brooklyn, there just aren't enough of them. Give them a decent point guard and a wing with an outside game and they look more legit. Depth will also be an issue for them in the summer. They don't need a home run to get better. ANY improvement is bad for our picks chances