Author Topic: Atlanta considering breaking up their core  (Read 8896 times)

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2016, 05:25:54 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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I don't watch a lot of Hawks games. Can someone tell me how Horford's defense is?

I keep hearing it's underrated.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2016, 05:37:44 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I don't watch a lot of Hawks games. Can someone tell me how Horford's defense is?

I keep hearing it's underrated.

It's above average. He moves well so he's good in defending the high PNR, but he isn't the best rebounder and struggles with position against bigger centers.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2016, 05:49:05 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I don't watch a lot of Hawks games. Can someone tell me how Horford's defense is?

I keep hearing it's underrated.

It's above average. He moves well so he's good in defending the high PNR, but he isn't the best rebounder and struggles with position against bigger centers.

He's had great defensive rebounding numbers for most of his career, #57 in defensive rebounding percentage all time.  They've tailed off the past couple of seasons -- possible that's age, but also possible that Millsap.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2016, 06:04:05 PM »

Offline chambers

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It makes a lot of sense for us to go after Horford. 

The Hawks were a 38 win playoff team in 2014.  Horford was limited to 29 games and missed the playoffs. 

The Hawks were a 60 win playoff team in 2015... Horford played 76 games and the team made the ECF with him.

Horford was the difference between a borderline .500 also-ran ... and the best record in the Eastern Conference.

Boston was a 38 win playoff team last year.   We're already on pace to be a 47 win team this year.  Adding Horford makes us pretty dangerous in the playoffs. 

Problem is that he could bail this Summer.  Taking him on is a risk.  But since Horford is one half of Danny's "Durant/Horford" summer pipedream, I guess adding him now and going hard at a playoff run gets us a little closer to accomplishing that dream.

I think last year was a special regular season for ATL.
Horford coming back helped them, but they had DeMare in a contract year and Korver putting up historical shooting numbers.
With Carroll gone and Korver coming back down to earth they are barely over .500 ball- and Horford is still there.

I think a guy we should target that's been mentioned a bit is Paul Millsap aka the Lebron killer.
I wouldn't mind Horford either but don't wanna pay anything for a guy that walks in 4 months time.

The biggest problem with Millsap is that Orlando will probably overpay for him if needed.
I think Orlando will eventually trade Tobias Harris for Millsap, perhaps with Fournier thrown in.
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2016, 06:36:52 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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I don't watch a lot of Hawks games. Can someone tell me how Horford's defense is?

I keep hearing it's underrated.

It's above average. He moves well so he's good in defending the high PNR, but he isn't the best rebounder and struggles with position against bigger centers.

He's had great defensive rebounding numbers for most of his career, #57 in defensive rebounding percentage all time.  They've tailed off the past couple of seasons -- possible that's age, but also possible that Millsap.
Msybe we would be a better fit for his defensive capabilities.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2016, 07:26:41 PM »

Offline OhioGreen

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No thanks on Horford, as he's a different player this year. During his career he always averaged around 9 rebs per game and never shot more than .5 threes per game.  This year (similar to Sully a couple years back) Al fell in love with his 3pt shot and now takes almost 3 a game, making 33%.  His rebounding has fallen way off from 9-10, to 6.9 this year. 

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2016, 08:05:15 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Al fell in love with his 3pt shot and now takes almost 3 a game, making 33%.

That is a much better percentage than Sully.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2016, 08:10:36 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Quote
Al fell in love with his 3pt shot and now takes almost 3 a game, making 33%.

That is a much better percentage than Sully.

Plus he is shooting 8% better than sully from the field in general

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2016, 08:37:51 PM »

Offline 2short

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good news. will be interesting to watch. no doubt Ainge will be looser with picks than others will (or even, can) be....
From this bunch, you clearly want Horford. The question is how prudent it is to spend too much resources on a player on the wrong side of 30 that is not under team controll

What I mean by "looser with picks" is that I think Ainge is more than prepared to take the risk on Horford with mid-picks in the 2016 draft. God knows we don't need many more rookie-scale role players.

BUT -- I'd attempt to trade for both Horford and Korver in order to justify the overall value of the deal. I'd say Korver could snatch one 1st round pick, though likely not a lottery pick. Horford could also, along with one good young player. So, something like:

Lee, Sullinger, Young, 2016 Dallas pick, 2016 Celtics pick and 2016 Philly 2nd for Horford, and Korver.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z9hob42

I do think that wdleehi is on to something. It could be that Orlando can trump a Celtics offer if they want players, not picks. A Harris for Horford deal would be tough for us to compete with.
Love this idea and Korver would be a nice ying to crowder's yang.  A quality starting level center might cost more.  I'm always a fan of the sign and trade though.  Don't like to give up much if it's for a chance for player to resign or walk

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Horford would have to be a rental. It'd be irresponsible to re-sign him for five years at the new max, not to mention unlikely he'd even want to. Thankfully we have a lot of expendable picks. Even as just a rental, for the decent chance to make the Finals that he'd give us, I'd give up every non-Nets 2016 pick. Could maybe retrieve a late 1st or early 2nd in a sign-and-trade later.

Completely agree.  I might be in the very small minority but I would much rather keep Sully and sign him to an offer sheet than trade assets for Horford. 

Even if you could get Horford to agree to a long-term deal, that deal is much more risky than a long-term deal for Sully.  Horford is 6 years older with a similar injury history. 

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2016, 09:19:59 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Horford would have to be a rental. It'd be irresponsible to re-sign him for five years at the new max, not to mention unlikely he'd even want to. Thankfully we have a lot of expendable picks. Even as just a rental, for the decent chance to make the Finals that he'd give us, I'd give up every non-Nets 2016 pick. Could maybe retrieve a late 1st or early 2nd in a sign-and-trade later.

Completely agree.  I might be in the very small minority but I would much rather keep Sully and sign him to an offer sheet than trade assets for Horford. 

Even if you could get Horford to agree to a long-term deal, that deal is much more risky than a long-term deal for Sully.  Horford is 6 years older with a similar injury history.
I'm with you. Sully is a better value at about $12M or so per year. Save that Horford max money for a bigger prize.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2016, 01:10:10 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Horford would have to be a rental. It'd be irresponsible to re-sign him for five years at the new max, not to mention unlikely he'd even want to. Thankfully we have a lot of expendable picks. Even as just a rental, for the decent chance to make the Finals that he'd give us, I'd give up every non-Nets 2016 pick. Could maybe retrieve a late 1st or early 2nd in a sign-and-trade later.

Completely agree.  I might be in the very small minority but I would much rather keep Sully and sign him to an offer sheet than trade assets for Horford. 

Even if you could get Horford to agree to a long-term deal, that deal is much more risky than a long-term deal for Sully.  Horford is 6 years older with a similar injury history.

If another team signs Sullinger to an offer sheet for more money than Tristan Thompson, do you match?
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2016, 06:28:23 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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It makes a lot of sense for us to go after Horford. 

The Hawks were a 38 win playoff team in 2014.  Horford was limited to 29 games and missed the playoffs. 

The Hawks were a 60 win playoff team in 2015... Horford played 76 games and the team made the ECF with him.

Horford was the difference between a borderline .500 also-ran ... and the best record in the Eastern Conference.

Boston was a 38 win playoff team last year.   We're already on pace to be a 47 win team this year.  Adding Horford makes us pretty dangerous in the playoffs. 

Problem is that he could bail this Summer.  Taking him on is a risk.  But since Horford is one half of Danny's "Durant/Horford" summer pipedream, I guess adding him now and going hard at a playoff run gets us a little closer to accomplishing that dream.

I think last year was a special regular season for ATL.
Horford coming back helped them, but they had DeMare in a contract year and Korver putting up historical shooting numbers.
With Carroll gone and Korver coming back down to earth they are barely over .500 ball- and Horford is still there.

I think a guy we should target that's been mentioned a bit is Paul Millsap aka the Lebron killer.
I wouldn't mind Horford either but don't wanna pay anything for a guy that walks in 4 months time.

The biggest problem with Millsap is that Orlando will probably overpay for him if needed.
I think Orlando will eventually trade Tobias Harris for Millsap, perhaps with Fournier thrown in.

If Orlando do a Harris for Millsap deal I think that opens the door for a reset in Atlanta. I could easily see a deal that gives us Korver and Horford for Sully, Hunter, Lee and picks. Then they'd try and find a new home for Teague as well.

good news. will be interesting to watch. no doubt Ainge will be looser with picks than others will (or even, can) be....
From this bunch, you clearly want Horford. The question is how prudent it is to spend too much resources on a player on the wrong side of 30 that is not under team controll

What I mean by "looser with picks" is that I think Ainge is more than prepared to take the risk on Horford with mid-picks in the 2016 draft. God knows we don't need many more rookie-scale role players.

BUT -- I'd attempt to trade for both Horford and Korver in order to justify the overall value of the deal. I'd say Korver could snatch one 1st round pick, though likely not a lottery pick. Horford could also, along with one good young player. So, something like:

Lee, Sullinger, Young, 2016 Dallas pick, 2016 Celtics pick and 2016 Philly 2nd for Horford, and Korver.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z9hob42

I do think that wdleehi is on to something. It could be that Orlando can trump a Celtics offer if they want players, not picks. A Harris for Horford deal would be tough for us to compete with.
Love this idea and Korver would be a nice ying to crowder's yang.  A quality starting level center might cost more.  I'm always a fan of the sign and trade though.  Don't like to give up much if it's for a chance for player to resign or walk
Well there you go! Something like that, although I think they'd want Hunter over Young as he looks like a higher IQ prospect. The Hawks would then rebuild with a young core of Schroeder, Harris, Sully, Bazemore and lots of picks

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2016, 07:46:46 AM »

Offline JBcat

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Horford would have to be a rental. It'd be irresponsible to re-sign him for five years at the new max, not to mention unlikely he'd even want to. Thankfully we have a lot of expendable picks. Even as just a rental, for the decent chance to make the Finals that he'd give us, I'd give up every non-Nets 2016 pick. Could maybe retrieve a late 1st or early 2nd in a sign-and-trade later.

Completely agree.  I might be in the very small minority but I would much rather keep Sully and sign him to an offer sheet than trade assets for Horford. 

Even if you could get Horford to agree to a long-term deal, that deal is much more risky than a long-term deal for Sully.  Horford is 6 years older with a similar injury history.

I'm leaning this way.   I'm afraid in 2 or 3 years Sully will be better than Horford when Horford is in his early 30s and Sully in his mid 20s.  I just hope that Sully doesn't eat his way out of the league.  :P  I think if you replace Lee with Johnson in the trade you might be able to get away with not trading Sully.  Johnson will at least give them control of a player next year if they want it or not (with a non guaranteed deal) and is a starting player on a playoff team.  Then throw in our first round pick, maybe Young, Hunter, or Rozier, a second round pick or 2 and that's it.  I wouldn't offer much more than that for player that could only be a rental entering his 30s. 

Anything more I'll probably walk away. 

Just adding to what I'm saying we'll probably need Sully's rebounding with Horford on board as his rebounding has declined.   I'd rather use Sully as part of a bigger trade for a younger star big say Cousins or Griffin with more years of control.  For example the 5th pick of the draft, Sully, and other spare parts. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 07:52:17 AM by JBcat »

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2016, 08:03:28 AM »

Offline ssspence

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It makes a lot of sense for us to go after Horford. 

The Hawks were a 38 win playoff team in 2014.  Horford was limited to 29 games and missed the playoffs. 

The Hawks were a 60 win playoff team in 2015... Horford played 76 games and the team made the ECF with him.

Horford was the difference between a borderline .500 also-ran ... and the best record in the Eastern Conference.

Boston was a 38 win playoff team last year.   We're already on pace to be a 47 win team this year.  Adding Horford makes us pretty dangerous in the playoffs. 

Problem is that he could bail this Summer.  Taking him on is a risk.  But since Horford is one half of Danny's "Durant/Horford" summer pipedream, I guess adding him now and going hard at a playoff run gets us a little closer to accomplishing that dream.

I think last year was a special regular season for ATL.
Horford coming back helped them, but they had DeMare in a contract year and Korver putting up historical shooting numbers.
With Carroll gone and Korver coming back down to earth they are barely over .500 ball- and Horford is still there.

I think a guy we should target that's been mentioned a bit is Paul Millsap aka the Lebron killer.
I wouldn't mind Horford either but don't wanna pay anything for a guy that walks in 4 months time.

The biggest problem with Millsap is that Orlando will probably overpay for him if needed.
I think Orlando will eventually trade Tobias Harris for Millsap, perhaps with Fournier thrown in.

If Orlando do a Harris for Millsap deal I think that opens the door for a reset in Atlanta. I could easily see a deal that gives us Korver and Horford for Sully, Hunter, Lee and picks. Then they'd try and find a new home for Teague as well.
The original ESPN report from the OP clearly suggests they don't wish to rebuild, but rather repaid around some of their existing core. To me, that means Millsap. Even if they wish to trade him, he's the most valuable player on their roster. Thy could do better than just Harris for him.

Bigger question to me is if both sides would do a Horford for Harris swap.

good news. will be interesting to watch. no doubt Ainge will be looser with picks than others will (or even, can) be....
From this bunch, you clearly want Horford. The question is how prudent it is to spend too much resources on a player on the wrong side of 30 that is not under team controll

What I mean by "looser with picks" is that I think Ainge is more than prepared to take the risk on Horford with mid-picks in the 2016 draft. God knows we don't need many more rookie-scale role players.

BUT -- I'd attempt to trade for both Horford and Korver in order to justify the overall value of the deal. I'd say Korver could snatch one 1st round pick, though likely not a lottery pick. Horford could also, along with one good young player. So, something like:

Lee, Sullinger, Young, 2016 Dallas pick, 2016 Celtics pick and 2016 Philly 2nd for Horford, and Korver.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z9hob42

I do think that wdleehi is on to something. It could be that Orlando can trump a Celtics offer if they want players, not picks. A Harris for Horford deal would be tough for us to compete with.
Love this idea and Korver would be a nice ying to crowder's yang.  A quality starting level center might cost more.  I'm always a fan of the sign and trade though.  Don't like to give up much if it's for a chance for player to resign or walk
Well there you go! Something like that, although I think they'd want Hunter over Young as he looks like a higher IQ prospect. The Hawks would then rebuild with a young core of Schroeder, Harris, Sully, Bazemore and lots of picks

Plus whatever they can net for Teague. Utah seems like a strong trade partner there. Maybe Burks. Or Trey Burke and a pick. Don't see them giving up Hood or Lyles for Teague, but they could put together a pretty decent package without them.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 08:09:27 AM by ssspence »
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