Author Topic: Atlanta considering breaking up their core  (Read 8898 times)

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2016, 04:12:27 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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What if the plan is to trade for Horford at the deadline, then trade for Blake Griffin (or maybe Cousins?) this summer?

Horford makes the most sense as a Pau Gasol type complement to a high-usage star.  Like Pau, I think his game is likely to age pretty well.  Then on top of that you have a ton of role players and draft picks to fill out the supporting cast.
That's a good point, Horford provides us value if he decides to stay because players would certainly be interested in playing with him.

Essentially Horford would be the Ray Allen of this generation (a guy who comes here and convinces another guy to accept a trade here).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:20:26 PM by Evantime34 »
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2016, 04:13:45 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Often I see, and not just here, speculation about Durants free agency.  But for the life of me, I can't figure out what would motivate him to leave OKC.  He isn't going to find a better teammate to play with than Westbrook.   They are literally two of the five best players in the game right now.   And they are playing well.   I just don't see it, like at all.   Unless of course, you consider bspn's urge to create something new to talk about....

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2016, 04:14:25 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What if the plan is to trade for Horford at the deadline, then trade for Blake Griffin (or maybe Cousins?) this summer?

Horford makes the most sense as a Pau Gasol type complement to a high-usage star.  Then you have a ton of role players and draft picks to fill out the supporting cast.

Or Hayward? Or Harris? Or McCollum? Or Middleton? Or Parker (just threw up in my mouth a lil bit)?

Sure, though I think Ainge's plan A, B, and C would be targeting the kind of players who would ensure contention if they were put next to Horford.  The guys you mention are good (or might be good someday), but aren't quite at that level.

Hayward and Horford are two of my favorite non-Celtics in the league, though.  That'd be awesome.
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2016, 04:14:36 PM »

Offline saltlover

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One of the advantages of acquiring Horford now, rather than over the summer, is that his cap hold will only be $18 million.  While that sounds like a lot, if you think Horford is getting a max contract (and I think that's a given barring a major injury between now and July), then if you are signing Horford as a free agent you need to keep approximately $25 million in cap room clear for him.  By acquiring his Bird rights, a team such as the Celtics would actually create an extra $7 million or so in cap room, since they could go over the cap to retain Horford.  It makes the capology of getting Durant and Horford a cinch.  That was never going to be the hard part, but it's an argument for acquiring Horford now.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2016, 04:21:42 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Chad Ford just posted this:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14746920/the-best-trades-atlanta-hawks-make-al-horford-jeff-teague-kyle-korver-nba

Includes my suggested trade, except he's swapped Olynyk in for Sully, Young and the Philly 2nd.

Celtics send Kelly Olynyk, the Dallas Mavericks' 2016 first-round pick (top-7 protected), their own first round pick and David Lee to Atlanta for Horford, Korver and Mike Muscala.

Horford is the big, versatile, intelligent big man Boston has been looking for. Celtics coach Brad Stevens would love having him in their rotation.

The Celtics really like Olynyk, a talented offensive player. Meanwhile, Horford will be an unrestricted free agent and turn 30 this summer, and the Celtics will have to break the bank to re-sign him.

Still, Celtics president Danny Ainge will always gamble on talent when he sees it and Horford could push this team into contention for the Eastern Conference title this year and beyond.
   
The Hawks are trying to get younger, and adding two first-round picks and Olynyk is probably about as much as they'll get for a player approaching free agency. Olynyk is a new-age big who can shoot, pass and handle the ball.


I don't see Ainge doing it. I think he's dead-set on hanging onto Olynyk.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:26:50 PM by ssspence »
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2016, 04:23:23 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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One of the advantages of acquiring Horford now, rather than over the summer, is that his cap hold will only be $18 million.  While that sounds like a lot, if you think Horford is getting a max contract (and I think that's a given barring a major injury between now and July), then if you are signing Horford as a free agent you need to keep approximately $25 million in cap room clear for him.  By acquiring his Bird rights, a team such as the Celtics would actually create an extra $7 million or so in cap room, since they could go over the cap to retain Horford.  It makes the capology of getting Durant and Horford a cinch.  That was never going to be the hard part, but it's an argument for acquiring Horford now.

TP, salt, that's encouraging.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2016, 04:23:42 PM »

Offline Big333223

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When thinking about Horford as a FA earlier this year, I didn't like the numbers. The contract was going to be big and his age was getting a little high. But I think Horford's game is going to be one that ages very well (think, the opposite of Dwight Howard) and look at what Pau Gasol is doing right now at age 35 (Horford would, potentially be on the books for age 30-34). In the last month or so, I've become enamored with the idea of Horford in Stevens' system.

I also wonder if we could hold onto some of our assetts if we agree to take Tiago Splitter off their hands (and then just buy him out or send him to any team that wants an extra big for nothing). So this is the deal I put together:

Boston gets: Horford Splitter
Atlanta gets: David Lee, Terry Rozier, Zeller or Sullinger, Young or Hunter, Dallas 2016, a couple of future 2nd Rounders.

The money works and we get to keep basically our entire core (IT, Bradley, Smart, Crowder) and we send out one of Sullinger of Zeller (which do we want more, Zeller's size or Sullinger's rebounding?).
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2016, 04:26:03 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I posted this in that other Horford thread, but thought it was appropriate for the discussion here:

I'd love to get Horford here. Great work ethic, solid citizen. He would fit right in.

And for a big man, age 35, which would be his age at the end of a 5 year contract is not especially onerous. In addition, his game, unlike someone like Dwight H, does not depend heavily on athleticism, so I think that he would age well.

Many point to his injury history, but that doesn't bother me. His two major injuries, which kept him sidelined for the big part of two separate seasons, were torn pecs, once on the left side and once on the right. Torn pecs are a common injury for people on PEDs. The last injury was in '13 with no recurrences, so maybe that issue, whatever the cause, has resolved itself through strength training of supporting muscles or in other ways.

My concern regarding signing with us longterm is his seeming interest in being in a large Hispanic market, which we are not.


H
Quote
orford could potentially land more off-court opportunities in much stronger Spanish-speaking NBA markets in Florida, New York, Texas or California. “Atlanta has the potential for a guy like myself to maximize [the business] part of it,” Horford told Yahoo Sports. “But obviously there are other cities, bigger cities that are more appealing probably [business- and marketing-wise]. The impact would be bigger if that is what you are looking for.

http://hoopshype.com/player/al-horford/

I guess the key phrase in that quote is "if that is what you are looking for."

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2016, 04:41:42 PM »

Offline heyvik

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One of the advantages of acquiring Horford now, rather than over the summer, is that his cap hold will only be $18 million.  While that sounds like a lot, if you think Horford is getting a max contract (and I think that's a given barring a major injury between now and July), then if you are signing Horford as a free agent you need to keep approximately $25 million in cap room clear for him.  By acquiring his Bird rights, a team such as the Celtics would actually create an extra $7 million or so in cap room, since they could go over the cap to retain Horford.  It makes the capology of getting Durant and Horford a cinch.  That was never going to be the hard part, but it's an argument for acquiring Horford now.

TP, salt, that's encouraging.

Great insight!!!!! That's something that Danny will probably look for if he decides to go after Horford.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2016, 04:45:14 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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One of the advantages of acquiring Horford now, rather than over the summer, is that his cap hold will only be $18 million.  While that sounds like a lot, if you think Horford is getting a max contract (and I think that's a given barring a major injury between now and July), then if you are signing Horford as a free agent you need to keep approximately $25 million in cap room clear for him.  By acquiring his Bird rights, a team such as the Celtics would actually create an extra $7 million or so in cap room, since they could go over the cap to retain Horford.  It makes the capology of getting Durant and Horford a cinch.  That was never going to be the hard part, but it's an argument for acquiring Horford now.

I'm nominating this for post of the year.  Great, informative work.  TP

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=30543.msg2027935#msg2027935

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2016, 05:04:28 PM »

Offline saltlover

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One of the advantages of acquiring Horford now, rather than over the summer, is that his cap hold will only be $18 million.  While that sounds like a lot, if you think Horford is getting a max contract (and I think that's a given barring a major injury between now and July), then if you are signing Horford as a free agent you need to keep approximately $25 million in cap room clear for him.  By acquiring his Bird rights, a team such as the Celtics would actually create an extra $7 million or so in cap room, since they could go over the cap to retain Horford.  It makes the capology of getting Durant and Horford a cinch.  That was never going to be the hard part, but it's an argument for acquiring Horford now.

I'm nominating this for post of the year.  Great, informative work.  TP

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=30543.msg2027935#msg2027935

Didn't know such a thread existed.  Thanks!

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2016, 05:08:09 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Quote
My concern regarding signing with us longterm is his seeming interest in being in a large Hispanic market, which we are not.

We're not a premier Spanish market, but we're not shabby, either. If you combine the Boston-Providence-Springfield areas, we have more Spanish speakers than the Atlanta area. Boston has exactly as many Spanish speakers as San Francisco. Massachusetts also has the fourth most Dominican-Americans. Pedro and Big Papi haven't been deprived of Spanish endorsement money, I imagine. What Horford might fail to see right now, having been trapped in sprawling mediocreville for most his career, is that if he helps us win a championship, his endorsement profile would transcend the local, he'd be doing national and international deals.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 05:18:46 PM by Dino Pitino »
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2016, 05:12:05 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Can Horford play PF at this point in his career . If so , maybe his buddy Noah would want to team up with him again on a cheap contract for a year or 2 leaving us enough money to sign Durant  :laugh:

IT            / vet min
Smart     / Hunter
Durant    / Crowder
Horford   / KO
Noah      / Amir

championship baby!

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2016, 05:13:31 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Can Horford play PF at this point in his career . If so , maybe his buddy Noah would want to team up with him again on a cheap contract for a year or 2 leaving us enough money to sign Durant  :laugh:

IT            / vet min
Smart     / Hunter
Durant    / Crowder
Horford   / KO
Noah      / Amir

championship baby!

oh yea don't forget ben simmons  :P

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2016, 05:15:11 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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One of the advantages of acquiring Horford now, rather than over the summer, is that his cap hold will only be $18 million.  While that sounds like a lot, if you think Horford is getting a max contract (and I think that's a given barring a major injury between now and July), then if you are signing Horford as a free agent you need to keep approximately $25 million in cap room clear for him.  By acquiring his Bird rights, a team such as the Celtics would actually create an extra $7 million or so in cap room, since they could go over the cap to retain Horford.  It makes the capology of getting Durant and Horford a cinch.  That was never going to be the hard part, but it's an argument for acquiring Horford now.

I'm nominating this for post of the year.  Great, informative work.  TP

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=30543.msg2027935#msg2027935

Didn't know such a thread existed.  Thanks!
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