Author Topic: Atlanta considering breaking up their core  (Read 8895 times)

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 02:30:57 PM »

Offline mef730

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Not even surprised. They can't afford the salary

Praying Celts will overpay for Horford/teague


I don't.  Horford could easily walk after the season.

Weird, I usually pray that we underpay for a player. ;)

Mike

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2016, 02:32:36 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Not even surprised. They can't afford the salary

Praying Celts will overpay for Horford/teague


I don't.  Horford could easily walk after the season.

Weird, I usually pray that we underpay for a player. ;)

Mike

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  • are named Mike
and
  • sign their name to every post?
Mike

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 02:41:10 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Not even surprised. They can't afford the salary

Praying Celts will overpay for Horford/teague


I don't.  Horford could easily walk after the season.

Weird, I usually pray that we underpay for a player. ;)

Mike

How many guys on Csblog:

  • are named Mike
and
  • sign their name to every post?

TP

Not Mike

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2016, 02:42:35 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Yeah I think this headline is misleading. They are going to try to deal Horford, Teague and Korver for younger cost controlled assets.
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2016, 02:43:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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good news. will be interesting to watch. no doubt Ainge will be looser with picks than others will (or even, can) be....
From this bunch, you clearly want Horford. The question is how prudent it is to spend too much resources on a player on the wrong side of 30 that is not under team controll

What I mean by "looser with picks" is that I think Ainge is more than prepared to take the risk on Horford with mid-picks in the 2016 draft. God knows we don't need many more rookie-scale role players.

BUT -- I'd attempt to trade for both Horford and Korver in order to justify the overall value of the deal. I'd say Korver could snatch one 1st round pick, though likely not a lottery pick. Horford could also, along with one good young player. So, something like:

Lee, Sullinger, Young, 2016 Dallas pick, 2016 Celtics pick and 2016 Philly 2nd for Horford, and Korver.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z9hob42

I do think that wdleehi is on to something. It could be that Orlando can trump a Celtics offer if they want players, not picks. A Harris for Horford deal would be tough for us to compete with.
That is probably a reasonable trade for both teams.  Atlanta can then move Teague and maybe even Millsap and really just start over. 
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2016, 02:45:20 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Since people are concerned about losing Sullinger/Zeller for nothing, what about starting off with those two for Horford and Walter "Edy" Tavares, then thinking about adding elements such as draft picks, James Young, or Kyle Korver until the trade is balanced enough for both sides to be interested?

Would you rather have Sullinger and Zeller as restricted free agents where you can match any offer sheet they sign or Horford as an unrestricted free agent whose Bird rights allow you to outbid everyone else?  It probably depends on how much you are willing to give Sullinger/Zeller and how much you think the Brad Stevens Experience will make Horford want to stay in Boston.
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2016, 02:48:45 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Since people are concerned about losing Sullinger/Zeller for nothing, what about starting off with those two for Horford and Walter "Edy" Tavares, then thinking about adding elements such as draft picks, James Young, or Kyle Korver until the trade is balanced enough for both sides to be interested?

Would you rather have Sullinger and Zeller as restricted free agents where you can match any offer sheet they sign or Horford as an unrestricted free agent whose Bird rights allow you to outbid everyone else?  It probably depends on how much you are willing to give Sullinger/Zeller and how much you think the Brad Stevens Experience will make Horford want to stay in Boston.
If Atlanta took on Sullinger, they would still have the power to re-sign him this Summer, right?... Sullinger is a restricted free agent.  At least that guarantees that they could either give him a qualifying offer for a single season, extend him, or match any offer he gets.  They wouldn't lose Sullinger for nothing (whereas, Boston might need to renounce those rights if they go hard after two max contracts this Summer... so it's in their best interest to get rid of SUlly for value now).

Same with Zeller, right?  He's also a restricted free agent.  Atlanta would be able to retain him.

Horford, on the other hand, is an unrestricted free agent.  Hawks might lose Horford for nothing.  If they get a sense that Horford isn't coming back to Atlanta this Summer, they really should move him before the deadline.  Teams like Atlanta (presumably not a free agent destination) can't really let assets walk for nothing.



Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2016, 02:53:30 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I like the idea of getting Horford but the fact he can walk after this season makes me a think Atlanta won't get back as much as they'd like.  If they're giving up on winning it this year, throw them Lee, Young, Rozier, better of Boston/Dallas first and if needed, the 2 best non-Philly seconds.  (if they want the Philly second, the other has to be the worst one coming to us).

It's not great but unless something is worked out ahead of time where we know Horford would sign with us, I'd hold off giving up a lot of assets for him.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2016, 02:56:04 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Amir Johnson + picks also make sense.   Johnson/Horford make the same amount of money this year.  Amir can fill in for the Hawks as they continue to go for the playoffs.   

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2016, 02:57:17 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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I like the idea of getting Horford but the fact he can walk after this season makes me a think Atlanta won't get back as much as they'd like.  If they're giving up on winning it this year, throw them Lee, Young, Rozier, better of Boston/Dallas first and if needed, the 2 best non-Philly seconds.  (if they want the Philly second, the other has to be the worst one coming to us).

It's not great but unless something is worked out ahead of time where we know Horford would sign with us, I'd hold off giving up a lot of assets for him.


The trade that makes most sense is Lee, Sully , Rozier , Dal pick .

Atl would have Sully's bird rights so get something in return before Horford leaves . Also pick up a young prospect on rookie contract and a pick .

They aren't getting better offers than that , unless they package Horford and Teague to go after Dwight type. But it appears they want to go younger cost controlled way.

Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2016, 02:59:48 PM »

Offline ssspence

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good news. will be interesting to watch. no doubt Ainge will be looser with picks than others will (or even, can) be....
From this bunch, you clearly want Horford. The question is how prudent it is to spend too much resources on a player on the wrong side of 30 that is not under team controll

What I mean by "looser with picks" is that I think Ainge is more than prepared to take the risk on Horford with mid-picks in the 2016 draft. God knows we don't need many more rookie-scale role players.

BUT -- I'd attempt to trade for both Horford and Korver in order to justify the overall value of the deal. I'd say Korver could snatch one 1st round pick, though likely not a lottery pick. Horford could also, along with one good young player. So, something like:

Lee, Sullinger, Young, 2016 Dallas pick, 2016 Celtics pick and 2016 Philly 2nd for Horford, and Korver.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z9hob42

I do think that wdleehi is on to something. It could be that Orlando can trump a Celtics offer if they want players, not picks. A Harris for Horford deal would be tough for us to compete with.
That is probably a reasonable trade for both teams.  Atlanta can then move Teague and maybe even Millsap and really just start over.

I see them moving Teague and Sefolosha, but keeping Millsap.

Move forward with Millsap, Schroder, re-signed Bazemore, Sully (resigned via RFA), 4 picks in the top 31 of the 2016 draft, a flyer on Young, and whatever they can get for Teague and Sefo.

To me, that matches the 'retool not rebuild' notion the article suggests
Mike

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2016, 03:01:39 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Not even surprised. They can't afford the salary

Praying Celts will overpay for Horford/teague


I don't.  Horford could easily walk after the season.

Weird, I usually pray that we underpay for a player. ;)

Mike

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  • are named Mike
and
  • sign their name to every post?

TP

Not Mike

Gotta say I'm into it. Its like a thing now... all Mikes and Michaels should sign their posts from here on out.
Mike

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2016, 03:06:38 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Horford would have to be a rental. It'd be irresponsible to re-sign him for five years at the new max, not to mention unlikely he'd even want to. Thankfully we have a lot of expendable picks. Even as just a rental, for the decent chance to make the Finals that he'd give us, I'd give up every non-Nets 2016 pick. Could maybe retrieve a late 1st or early 2nd in a sign-and-trade later.
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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2016, 03:14:54 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Horford would have to be a rental. It'd be irresponsible to re-sign him for five years at the new max, not to mention unlikely he'd even want to.

Don't agree Dino.

I think if Ainge could convince Horford to help him bring a premium FA to Boston this summer, he'd agree to give him the full 5 year max in exchange -- something no other team can do if he's traded here this season.

Is it overpaying? Sure. But if it achieves the end goal of actually signing two top tier guys and competing for a championship -- who cares? Wyc will make that money back in spades, and Ainge has managed the cap beautifully with other portions of the roster, plus a variety of nice picks to ensure rookie-scale players going forward.

Ainge waits for his moments to take risk, but he understands you have to to create a real shot. And having Horford onboard would make Boston is a REALLY attractive destination, when you factor all other elements.

Mike

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Re: Atlanta considering breaking up their core
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2016, 03:18:56 PM »

Offline mef730

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Not even surprised. They can't afford the salary

Praying Celts will overpay for Horford/teague


I don't.  Horford could easily walk after the season.

Weird, I usually pray that we underpay for a player. ;)

Mike

How many guys on Csblog:

  • are named Mike
and
  • sign their name to every post?

As far as I can tell, two. Just a habit I've gotten into on a few message boards. Ya know, it personalizes things a bit in this vast world of anonymity.

Mike