Poll

If the season ended today, how many Cs would make it on 1st or 2nd All-NBA Defensive Team?

1
14 (29.2%)
2
23 (47.9%)
3
8 (16.7%)
4
0 (0%)
None
3 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?  (Read 7539 times)

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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2016, 04:30:24 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I actually like Crowder's chances.  He's been getting a lot of respect around the league, being called a borderline All-Star and what not.  I think voters actually like guys like him. 

Contrary to what some people, like Big333223 right above me, say about undeserving superstars on the All-Defensive team, I think this is rarely the case.  Just in the past few years we've seen guys like Tony Allen, Patrick Beverly, Andrew Bogut, Andre Iguodala, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha, etc. on the All-Defensive teams.  These are all guys who were averaging less than 10ppg when they were selected.  I think the voters love these types of guys, and know voting them to the All-Defensive team is the only time they'll ever be able to get respect as they'll most likely never be an All-Star or win All-NBA, MVP, or SMOY.  I actually think not being a superstar sometimes helps you get selected to All-Defense, I don't think the bar is as high for non-superstars.

Also Smart and Bradley might split the vote at the guard position, while Crowder doesn't have that same competion (if a voter was looking to reward a C for their great team defense).


For reference, last years All-Defensive teams:

1st
Tony Allen
Draymond Green
Kawhi Leonard
DeAndre Jordan
Chris Paul

2nd
John Wall
Tim Duncan
Anthony Davis
Jimmy Butler
Andrew Bogut

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tony Allen, John Wall, and Tim Duncan drop off, and questionable on Butler.  Also don't think LeBron will be added in.  I see some available spots for Bradley, Smart, and Crowder.
It's gotten better and last year's team was pretty good but look no further than Kobe Bryant making the team from '06-'12 as evidence that stars get special attention. John Wall is terrific but was he really a better defender than Avery Bradley or Danny Green last season? Probably not.

I know this is a Celtics blog, and we all hate Kobe, but are you saying he's wasn't a great defender during that period?

Here's some examples. 2010 playoffs, Lakers/Thunder 1st round.  Series tied 2-2, with Russell Westbrook shooting 55% averaging 20ppg.  Lakers put Kobe on Westbrook for next 2 games, Westbrook shoots 33%.

Look at this full court D on Dwyane Wade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VCVP9L25vk

He once held a prime Allen Iverson to 0-11 shooting.  (Though admittedly this is outside of the window you're claiming).

Go type in "Kobe lockdown" or "Kobe defense" into youtube and see how many great examples come up.

Kobe was a great defender, that's why he was All-Defense all those years.  Not because he was a superstar.  Now if you want to argue maybe towards the last couple of years during that run that he got selected based more on reputation, I can accept that, but again that's based on the reputation of being a great defender, not of being a superstar.  Similar to how Bruce Bowen was elected All-Defense 8 straight years even though his last couple might have been more because of reputation than performance.

The NBA All-Defensive teams have always had a pretty good balance between superstars and non-superstars (and let's not forget part of what makes somebody a superstar is that they're usually great on both sides of the ball).  I personally don't think there's a superstar bias when it comes to All-Defensive team selections (and if anything, I'd argue the bias tends to go the other way, but that's another discussion).
Bryant was a highlight defender. He had the talent to lock guys up but he rarely did so. He wasn't even, usually, the best defender on his own team. The Lakers had Ariza and then Artest guarding the best perimeter player on the opposite team during that second championship run.

Kobe Bryant's defense has been the most overrated aspect of his game since Shaq left. So no, he definitely didn't deserve those all defensive selections. He was a good defender but never in the top ten in the league during those years.
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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2016, 01:30:39 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2016, 02:49:07 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.

Overreaction.

Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2016, 02:57:52 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.

Overreaction.

Probably, possibly, I hope so...but how many players worthy of an All-Defensive team have ever committed a foul that stupid with a game on the line? Show me one, just one, and I'll relax and begin the process of erasing tonight from my memory as just a fluke.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2016, 03:37:51 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.

Overreaction.

Probably, possibly, I hope so...but how many players worthy of an All-Defensive team have ever committed a foul that stupid with a game on the line? Show me one, just one, and I'll relax and begin the process of erasing tonight from my memory as just a fluke.
Not a foul but deandre Jordan forgetting to shoot was pretty horrible with a tie game and the ball in his hands under the basket with 2 seconds left.

Also IDK if Artest ever made it but he did some really really dumb stuff.
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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2016, 06:02:14 AM »

Offline BornReady

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It's a tough call who will be on the defense team
As there are so many good ones playing the positions smart, Bradley and crowder play
Our defense ranking is mainly cuz of our teamwork on the defensive end rather any one defender

Bradley or smart would be my pick as there are too many good defenders at crowder so position



Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2016, 06:22:23 AM »

Offline 2short

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.

Overreaction.

Probably, possibly, I hope so...but how many players worthy of an All-Defensive team have ever committed a foul that stupid with a game on the line? Show me one, just one, and I'll relax and begin the process of erasing tonight from my memory as just a fluke.
Tony Allen

Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2016, 06:56:36 AM »

Offline chambers

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Crowder is our best chance at getting someone on the first or second team. I think he'll get 2nd team and they'll pick Leonard first team.

Smart would be a legit candidate for first team and second team but he's probably missed too many games.

Next season his goal should be
average 14 ppg
6 assists
5 rebounds
2 steals

All NBA defense team
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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2016, 08:53:44 AM »

Offline chambers

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.

Overreaction.

Probably, possibly, I hope so...but how many players worthy of an All-Defensive team have ever committed a foul that stupid with a game on the line? Show me one, just one, and I'll relax and begin the process of erasing tonight from my memory as just a fluke.


Just try and remember two things:

1) Tony Allen, a multiple All Defensive 1st team member, made some very dumb mistakes on defense all the time- and he's made similar ones to this too. Great defenders have great anticipation and sometimes that backfires.

2) Think about how many games we have won on the back of Avery Bradley's defensive leadership- even back with the big 3 he was the spark that got our D going. Now he pretty much takes the best guard, and does an excellent job in most cases.

Our comeback game vs the Magic in 2012 is one that springs to mind...Bradley's full court defense on Nelson from the start of the 3rd quarter was inspiring.
Offensive highlights of that win if you don't remember it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJyDBR95n4
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2016, 09:43:39 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Thanks to that unforgivable all-time moronic foul tonight Bradley should be disqualified from consideration for the All-Defensive teams no matter what he does the rest of the season.

Overreaction.

Probably, possibly, I hope so...but how many players worthy of an All-Defensive team have ever committed a foul that stupid with a game on the line? Show me one, just one, and I'll relax and begin the process of erasing tonight from my memory as just a fluke.


Just try and remember two things:

1) Tony Allen, a multiple All Defensive 1st team member, made some very dumb mistakes on defense all the time- and he's made similar ones to this too. Great defenders have great anticipation and sometimes that backfires.

Name one mistake on defense as dumb.

EDIT: Was just reminded in another thread of TA's foul on Billups in a tie game with a fraction of a second left. But here's the difference: That was years before TA received a vote for the All-Defensive team. If someone can point to a similar blunder committed the same season that a player is named to the All-Defensive team, I'd love to stand corrected.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:52:51 AM by Dino Pitino »
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 10:10:04 AM »

Offline makaveli

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Smart has been easily our most impressive defender, he should make it
Bradley and crowder will barely miss it.
 
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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2016, 10:21:51 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Noooooooooooo way Avery deserves it.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 02:34:35 AM »

Offline makaveli

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Noooooooooooo way Avery deserves it.
yup, he is a great on the ball defender, but his lack of size and strenght limits him in contact, and geting over screens, beautifully displayed against JJ Redick, Afflalo etc. In other words, he is only effective against PGs, rarely against SGs.
Smart is an absolute peach on D. Running through screens, getting steals, traffic rebounds, and it seams that every game he literally steals 4-5 possessions away.
About Crowder, he is good, but no where near Lebron level right now. At times i was very frustrated with him for not taking one for the team in terms of committing a foul around the basket to prevent an easy layup, even tho he is not in foul foul trouble.
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Re: Celtics on 2016 All-NBA Defensive Team?
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 02:55:08 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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For me smart>crowder>AB

Smart should make one of the teams but these things are often based off of earning years of respect.

For Crowder the big thing is the number of good Wing defenders oit there who have more established names.

Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.