Poll

How much are you willing to pay Sully?

Less than 7.5 mil
7.5-10 mil
10-12.5 mil
12.5-15 mil
More than 15 mil

Author Topic: How much are you willing to pay Sully?  (Read 5635 times)

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Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2016, 09:56:56 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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$6-7 million per annum
Sounds right to me . He is not more valuable than Crowder.

This is true in hindsight, but we need to look at context.

Crowder was signed to that contract when he just finished a season averaging 8 points, 3 rebounds and an assist along with 28% 3PT - and this came after never averaging more than 5/3/1 prior to that.

Danny gave him a $7m a year contract, and right after that he elevated his numbers to 14/5/2 with 35% 3Pt and elite caliber defense.  No team would have really seen that coming, and if they did we probably never would have snatched him on anything near $7M. 

The difference with Sully is that he's talent level and potential are well established.  He was pretty highly hyped coming out of college until the red flags came up about his back, and at the age of 23 he already has career Per 36 numbers of 16 / 11. 

Yes, we all know he has red flags (conditioning, attitude, etc) but nobody can deny that he has talent, and you have to think there will be some GM out there who is going to get desperate and take a gamble, hoping they can pick up the next Zach Randolph.

You basically countered yourself in the same post. Sully is fat. That is the difference between him and crowder. Besides, what does Sully exactly bring? I'm not in love with his defense. He's not an effective score. He isn't consistent. He is only a great rebounder. Maybe he can grew into more, but I haven't seen much improvement year over year. You have to remember how much of a leap Crowder made pver each year. Unlike Sully, who is the same player he was last year.

Look at Crowder's career stats - from his rookie year to his third year, the improvement in his Per 36 production was minimal. 

He looked like an absolute end of bench guy until he came to Boston, and was given some extra minutes and a bigger role.  Even then he looked like he was backup SF at best.

Sully's game is highly frustrating and very flawed, but there has never been any question about the fact that he has the talent to be a starter in this league - IF he ever got his act together.

The biggest question has always been whether or not that will ever happen.  All signs so far point to the answer being an emphatic "NO", but all it takes is one team to decide it's worth the gamble and throw him a stupid deal (Think: the infamous Detroit Pistons Villenueva signing).

Talent tends to always find you a roster spot - look at guys like Beasley and Greg Oden.  Both guys who's careers were early disasters, but who still consistently found their ways on to rosters based on their raw talent/potential alone. It's not hard to imagine a guy like Sully falling into that same category. 

On the other hand, Crowder looked a gritty and hard-working player with very limited talent/upside (Think: Reggie Evans), and teams are unlikely to take gambles on players of that nature.

That's why I don't personally see the Crowder deal as being even remotely reflective of what we should expect with Sully. They are two completely opposite players in two completely opposite situations, and it's well known that talented big men are way overvalued in this league (e.g. Tristan Thompson, Omer Asik).

Personally I strongly believe that Sully's conditioning issues and inconsistency limit him from being worthy of any more than a 20-25 MPG role as a backup PF/C, but other teams out there might look at the way Zach Randolph turned his career around, and see that as a prime reason to take a gamble.

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2016, 10:46:21 AM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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I expect DA will let the market dictate sully contract and match and not crazy offer. I will not be surprised if we also see a big baby for bass like trade. I personally think the team that should be most interested in Sully is NO. If they can figure out a way to first the Asik signing and move him restrain Anderson and sign or trade for sully I think Davis, Sully and Anderson are 3 very complimentary bigs.

I agree that NO would be a good place for sully.  You think we could work out a sign and trade where we take on Asik in exchange for draft considerations?  Maybe something like sully and the Dallas pick for Asik, NO's pick, and swap rights for next year? This is only appealing if we don't think we can get anyone in free agency, but I'd be fine with using our cap space to move up in the draft and gamble on Asik.  It wasn't that long ago that he was one of the best defensive big men in the game, and with the cap jump that contract won't be as awful as it looks right now.

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2016, 11:00:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Asik is a fossil of the past. NO will have to give assets to trade Asik away, much less to get a better replacement.

I'd trade Sully for Anderson or Evans. What if we gave Philly a second round pick to take Asik? Noel, Embiid, and Okafor would have one of the best punching bags in the league to play against in practice and develop their skills?

Philly gets Asik, Minny second round picks
Celtics get Evans, Ajinca
Pelicans get Lee, Sully

I still don't love it because I want our cap space this summer.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:10:18 AM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2016, 11:09:14 AM »

Offline tomrod

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Yeah, give him away for nothing, ugh what...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2016, 11:10:54 AM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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I wouldn't say getting a lottery pick this year (and possibly another next year) is giving him away for nothing.

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2016, 12:09:15 PM »

Offline ssspence

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4 years 44 mil.

How much I'm not too concerned about -- but I'd keep the deal shorter than this... 2-3 year deal.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2016, 12:48:28 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I'd offer 1 Year/ 18mil + team option for a second year.

Sully is a talented player, and the C's need to retain cap flexibility for 2017 so we can go after one of the plethora of 1st- and 2nd-tier UFA's. Westbrook, Griffin, CP3, Lowry, Ibaka, and Hayward are all UFA's (some of them have player options/ETOs, and they will all probably opt out barring injury), and we should be conserving cap space to sign one or even two of those guys.

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2016, 02:04:40 PM »

Offline mef730

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I'd offer 1 Year/ 18mil + team option for a second year.

Oh no. Oh, no, no, no.

I'd do that 18mil for two years. Maybe. But I think it would be better to see what we could get now. The spread between what he's gonna get offered and what I'd be willing to pay for him is going to be too high.

Mike

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2016, 04:09:14 PM »

Offline mgent

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Can we pay him in food?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2016, 05:02:56 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I'd offer 1 Year/ 18mil + team option for a second year.

Sully is a talented player, and the C's need to retain cap flexibility for 2017 so we can go after one of the plethora of 1st- and 2nd-tier UFA's. Westbrook, Griffin, CP3, Lowry, Ibaka, and Hayward are all UFA's (some of them have player options/ETOs, and they will all probably opt out barring injury), and we should be conserving cap space to sign one or even two of those guys.



Now I love Sully but that is crazy talk. That's half of our cap space on a guy we aren't even sure is in our long term plan

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2016, 05:59:26 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I'd offer 1 Year/ 18mil + team option for a second year.

Sully is a talented player, and the C's need to retain cap flexibility for 2017 so we can go after one of the plethora of 1st- and 2nd-tier UFA's. Westbrook, Griffin, CP3, Lowry, Ibaka, and Hayward are all UFA's (some of them have player options/ETOs, and they will all probably opt out barring injury), and we should be conserving cap space to sign one or even two of those guys.



Now I love Sully but that is crazy talk. That's half of our cap space on a guy we aren't even sure is in our long term plan

Cap space doesn't work that way. His proposal would mean that you sign Sullinger AFTER all our cap space is used.

But I wouldn't call the second a team option, but a non-guaranteed contract with X termination date. Kinda like what we did with Amir Johnson.

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2016, 06:15:36 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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Something similar to Crowder's contract. He'd probably want more tho so I'd trade him now then lose him for nothing.

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2016, 06:54:19 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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Something similar to Crowder's contract. He'd probably want more tho so I'd trade him now then lose him for nothing.

I'd like him back IF it was for that type of money. Even a shorter contract but more per year.
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Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2016, 08:08:43 AM »

Offline ssspence

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4 years 44 mil.

How much I'm not too concerned about -- but I'd keep the deal shorter than this... 2-3 year deal.

I've long been a Sully naysayer. But I have to admit I've been having doubts about my doubts. Guy has been playing really solid, effective ball.

Very torn: trade him while he has value, or keep him and squeeze him into a cost-effective deal in RFA (ala Bradley / Crowder)? I think I still lean towards dealing him IF he actually extracts value in exchange for an impact player at the 3 or 5.

Regardless, I've been impressed and pleasantly surprised.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: How much are you willing to pay Sully?
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2016, 08:31:10 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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4 years 44 mil.

How much I'm not too concerned about -- but I'd keep the deal shorter than this... 2-3 year deal.

I've long been a Sully naysayer. But I have to admit I've been having doubts about my doubts. Guy has been playing really solid, effective ball.

Very torn: trade him while he has value, or keep him and squeeze him into a cost-effective deal in RFA (ala Bradley / Crowder)? I think I still lean towards dealing him IF he actually extracts value in exchange for an impact player at the 3 or 5.

Regardless, I've been impressed and pleasantly surprised.
a convert from the dark side finally ;)

I'd be happy if Danny could work out that shorter deal you mentioned at a fair rate.  $35 for 3 wouldn't be atrocious.  It's fair market price under the next contract for a player putting up his numbers and with his skillset AND it keeps him mindful that his next contract isn't so far off that he can ease up. 

Having said that, if Danny insists on short years, I wouldn't be surprised to see another team offer Sully a 4-year deal for slightly less average annual salary and see Sully leave for it to get that extra year and a bit more peace of mind