Author Topic: Woj: Celtics haven't had any serious trade talks yet, could be quiet deadline  (Read 7527 times)

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Offline saltlover

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I don't know if Woj touched on this (can't listen yet) but one thing I've heard mentioned by him before is that because the draft class is considered to be a bit weak this year that might dampen trades.  I find that unconvincing.  Last year was one of the most active deadlines ever, and I can't think of a single trade that involved a 2015 first that conveyed.  Only two trades that I can think of even involved a 2015 1st that had some chance of conveying -- the MCW-Knight-Lakers pick swap (pick was top-5 protected) and the Javale McGee salary dump (pick from OKC was top-18 protected).  It's pretty standard fare these days to trade picks multiple years into the future.
I could see Ainge doing some "rollover" on the lesser value 1st rounders and maybe the 2nd rounders too.  There just too many picks now to use them all with this deep roster. A couple teams out there will be looking for picks and tis a chance to trade them up to something higher in future years.

That's certainly a possibility, but much more likely to be a draft day thing when another team wants a specific player rather than 4 months out.

Offline Celts Fan 508

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Well I don't want to elaborate too too much - would love if people listened ;)

But it was pretty clear this past week of 'buzz' esp earlier in the week were due to social media/story aggregation wildfires (Woj and I discussed that a bit in depth at beginning of interview.)  Not saying that talks didn't exist, but there just not serious enough yet.  Those talks take place "every day" and if he "were to report on everyone of those - there'd not be enough room on the Internet for them."

One thing to really watch out for is, esp with the media are phrases like "Have Discussed" - for example "Team X and Team Y 'Have Discussed' a Trade for Player Z" - that means nothing.  Those are the types of talks that Woj said happen every day.  There haven't been any serious offers made back and forth by both teams where they were actually engaged in serious trade conversations.  Obviously, all trade talks have to evolve from something, but...

I've noticed recently as well that the Celtics and some of their execs have really peddled the value of draft picks and the value they will have down the road.  Asked Woj if that very well could be the organization getting a head start on some PR as they gear fans up for not making that "transformative" (their phrase, not mine) move that a lot of fans feel inevitable.  Woj pretty much agreed.  That guy isn't there, but one possibility could be Blake Griffin for the Celts in the summer.  His name has been out there now, albeit in the 'have discussed' headlines - very, very, very unlikely he's moved now.  Summer - different story.

Even I asked about possibly making one of those "incremental" moves like IT last year - cited Greg Monroe - even he felt a talent comparable to Monroe would be a stretch for someone the Celtics could acquire within these next few weeks.  What to watch for is Morris - he very well could be the domino just as last year's trade deadline where Dragic was the domino that triggered a crazy finish to the deadline.

Can't remember what else we talked about, as bizarre as that is. Interview was like 35-40 mins - know we did some Durant->GSW(?) Lakers ("not attractive destination") and his website of course.  Which again, kind of all ties into how the media operates around this time.

Best wishes and infinite thanks to those who actually go ahead and listen!
LHR

TP, great interview, I hope everyone listens.
2019 historical draft.  Pick 12

Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond, Sam Jones, Dan Majerle, Bob Cousy, Rasheed Wallace, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby

Offline LooseCannon

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Teams will be angling to get a Nets pick.  Ainge won't be biting unless a star is up for grabs.  Teams won't come down on their asking price until the deadline is much closer, hoping that either the Celtics cave or someone else raises their offer.  Everyone wants someone else to make the first trade that sets market value so they can set their prices to avoid looking like they overpaid or undersold.
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Offline Irish Stew

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Gallo would be such a great fit for us but Denver is just not interested in moving him. I can't find a similar Plan B for us. I'm not a Monroe fan but it may be worth it to acquire him for the end of season/playoff run and as a trade asset for the future if he doesn't appear to be a long term fit. However, I'm not giving a Brooklyn pick up for guys like Gallo or Monroe, which may make their acquisition impossible. Why do I think that on draft night we may still have all eight of our picks?

Offline sawick48

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It's Groundhog Day, Edge of Tomorrow Celtic style:

No major trades at trade deadline
Team plays inspired ball last part of season, makes playoffs
Team gets first round boot
Draft is bust, regardless of where we pick
Best free agents have no interest in Boston
trade fireworks fizzle again
C's hype whatever draft picks they made bigtime
Next season starts with high hopes of big trades at trade deadline
Rookies ride bench or rot in DLeague
No major trades at deadline
...................................
....................................

That's some world class pessimism!

Hey, it's just the reality of what has transpired here.  Like Mahonedog88 mentioned, we've heard the "fireworks" talk for two plus years now, and.........zip!  When was our last "huge" trade?  Our last "huge" FA signing?  Our last "huge" draft pick?  We keep hearing " Wait til this, wait til that, but nothing ever happens! 
Danny has scared off all the GM's in the league for fear of being abused in deals.  We've not really ever had a boatload of cash to sign FA's with, and now that we will, EVERBODY will cause of the new salary cap coming.  And where once all draft picks were really valuable, now teams only want the top two or three in trades, and of course we now have umpteen picks that nobody really wants.  Heck we couldn't even move up a few spots in the draft last year for four first round draft picks!  We're just stuck in this bad loop with no way out.  Call it what you want--pessimism is one, but it is what it is!

Don't worry man, not everyone calls it pessimism.  The ones that know this is the end result are the ones that call it realism.  I'm with you.  Full of sound and fury......

That said I think DA HAS to make a move at this deadline.  Obviously he won't for a big star, there's none out there.  But too many 1sts, too many 2nds, too many soon to be RFAs (Zeller, Sully) for all of those pieces to be here in the future.  I would be overjoyed in a 3 way deal that was essentially Sullinger + Lee to Sac; Zeller, JY, and our 1st to Min; and other pieces involved from the 2 teams that I won't bore you with netting us Rudy Gay and Gorgui Dieng.  Or a deal that can land us Tyreke Evans assuming we do our due diligence on his knee.  I just don't think either of those deals happen. 

But....I'd love to be proved wrong.  Because we NEED to do something.  Not even for this season, but just so all of out vaunted "assets" we've spent 3 years collecting, don't start expiring with nothing to show for them.

Offline obnoxiousmime

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I don't think it would be difficult for Ainge to deal his pick surplus, even if it's at "even" or slightly lesser value. True, you're negotiating with teams that know you need to unload them, but come draft time teams will fall in love with this or that player and be willing to deal say, a future first for one of your firsts. Draft picks are a cheap way to get a young player for four years under control, and even though the cap is rising it doesn't mean teams will suddenly want to be signing mediocre players to 5-10 million dollars a year just to reach the salary floor.

All I'm saying is I don't think there is an urgency to deal the picks before the deadline, especially with the rumors indicating this offseason is when teams will look to make their big changes. Might as well maintain some flexibility when the deals do start to go down.

Offline inverselock

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It's Groundhog Day, Edge of Tomorrow Celtic style:

No major trades at trade deadline
Team plays inspired ball last part of season, makes playoffs
Team gets first round boot
Draft is bust, regardless of where we pick
Best free agents have no interest in Boston
trade fireworks fizzle again
C's hype whatever draft picks they made bigtime
Next season starts with high hopes of big trades at trade deadline
Rookies ride bench or rot in DLeague
No major trades at deadline
...................................
....................................

That's some world class pessimism!

Hey, it's just the reality of what has transpired here.  Like Mahonedog88 mentioned, we've heard the "fireworks" talk for two plus years now, and.........zip!  When was our last "huge" trade?  Our last "huge" FA signing?  Our last "huge" draft pick?  We keep hearing " Wait til this, wait til that, but nothing ever happens! 
Danny has scared off all the GM's in the league for fear of being abused in deals.  We've not really ever had a boatload of cash to sign FA's with, and now that we will, EVERBODY will cause of the new salary cap coming.  And where once all draft picks were really valuable, now teams only want the top two or three in trades, and of course we now have umpteen picks that nobody really wants.  Heck we couldn't even move up a few spots in the draft last year for four first round draft picks!  We're just stuck in this bad loop with no way out.  Call it what you want--pessimism is one, but it is what it is!

Don't worry man, not everyone calls it pessimism.  The ones that know this is the end result are the ones that call it realism.  I'm with you.  Full of sound and fury......

That said I think DA HAS to make a move at this deadline.  Obviously he won't for a big star, there's none out there.  But too many 1sts, too many 2nds, too many soon to be RFAs (Zeller, Sully) for all of those pieces to be here in the future.  I would be overjoyed in a 3 way deal that was essentially Sullinger + Lee to Sac; Zeller, JY, and our 1st to Min; and other pieces involved from the 2 teams that I won't bore you with netting us Rudy Gay and Gorgui Dieng.  Or a deal that can land us Tyreke Evans assuming we do our due diligence on his knee.  I just don't think either of those deals happen. 

But....I'd love to be proved wrong.  Because we NEED to do something.  Not even for this season, but just so all of out vaunted "assets" we've spent 3 years collecting, don't start expiring with nothing to show for them.

3rd year of the rebuild.  Did you expect to already have draft & developed a superstar talent, get super star trade and sign superstar FA in 2.5 years?

Offline BornReady

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Gallo would be such a great fit for us but Denver is just not interested in moving him. I can't find a similar Plan B for us. I'm not a Monroe fan but it may be worth it to acquire him for the end of season/playoff run and as a trade asset for the future if he doesn't appear to be a long term fit. However, I'm not giving a Brooklyn pick up for guys like Gallo or Monroe, which may make their acquisition impossible. Why do I think that on draft night we may still have all eight of our picks?

I think the asking price for Gallo would be way too high
As Denver really values him.

Offline Celtics4ever

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The fact of the matter, is what we do depends also on the goals of other teams.   Will someone decide they can't compete or it is too expensive to continue down the path they are going and fold so we can swoop in.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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The fact of the matter, is what we do depends also on the goals of other teams.   Will someone decide they can't compete or it is too expensive to continue down the path they are going and fold so we can swoop in.

This.

Offline Dino Pitino

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The fact of the matter, is what we do depends also on the goals of other teams.   Will someone decide they can't compete or it is too expensive to continue down the path they are going and fold so we can swoop in.

Good point. Not only their goals for this season, though. Even the teams that wind up sucking this season and missing the playoffs, as long as they have at least one All Star caliber player they'll imagine they have a chance at Durant, however unlikely. So it might be that the pipe dream of winning the Durant sweepstakes will keep teams from making trades. If that's the case, then there won't be any major trades until Durant signs or re-signs. At which point there'd be a flood of trades, as those teams face the reality of an underwhelming free agent market where the non-Durant headliners are an aging Horford or Conley. Or maybe it all repeats itself for another year as those same teams adopt the next pipe dream of signing Curry or Westbrook in 2017. TL;DR The cap explosion could paradoxically make teams more conservative than ever, lest they blow their "chance" to sign a franchise-changer.

Perhaps this situation should lead to the strategy of using the surplus of non-Nets picks to poach expiring rentals for singular deep runs, one year at a time. Maintain a deep core of above-averageness to which one can add a different star rental at the deadline for a discount, one year after another, until your team is the lucky one to 1) win the free agent sweepstakes or 2) win the draft sweepstakes, or 3) win a title, which theoretically could happen anyway while you "wait", each year led by a different rental. This year the relevant rentals would be either Horford or Howard, or both...unless either Atlanta or Houston view re-signing Horford or Howard to an unwise max contract as their "key to landing Durant", in which case see the first paragraph.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 09:42:20 AM by Dino Pitino »
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Offline sawick48

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It's Groundhog Day, Edge of Tomorrow Celtic style:

No major trades at trade deadline
Team plays inspired ball last part of season, makes playoffs
Team gets first round boot
Draft is bust, regardless of where we pick
Best free agents have no interest in Boston
trade fireworks fizzle again
C's hype whatever draft picks they made bigtime
Next season starts with high hopes of big trades at trade deadline
Rookies ride bench or rot in DLeague
No major trades at deadline
...................................
....................................

That's some world class pessimism!

Hey, it's just the reality of what has transpired here.  Like Mahonedog88 mentioned, we've heard the "fireworks" talk for two plus years now, and.........zip!  When was our last "huge" trade?  Our last "huge" FA signing?  Our last "huge" draft pick?  We keep hearing " Wait til this, wait til that, but nothing ever happens! 
Danny has scared off all the GM's in the league for fear of being abused in deals.  We've not really ever had a boatload of cash to sign FA's with, and now that we will, EVERBODY will cause of the new salary cap coming.  And where once all draft picks were really valuable, now teams only want the top two or three in trades, and of course we now have umpteen picks that nobody really wants.  Heck we couldn't even move up a few spots in the draft last year for four first round draft picks!  We're just stuck in this bad loop with no way out.  Call it what you want--pessimism is one, but it is what it is!

Don't worry man, not everyone calls it pessimism.  The ones that know this is the end result are the ones that call it realism.  I'm with you.  Full of sound and fury......

That said I think DA HAS to make a move at this deadline.  Obviously he won't for a big star, there's none out there.  But too many 1sts, too many 2nds, too many soon to be RFAs (Zeller, Sully) for all of those pieces to be here in the future.  I would be overjoyed in a 3 way deal that was essentially Sullinger + Lee to Sac; Zeller, JY, and our 1st to Min; and other pieces involved from the 2 teams that I won't bore you with netting us Rudy Gay and Gorgui Dieng.  Or a deal that can land us Tyreke Evans assuming we do our due diligence on his knee.  I just don't think either of those deals happen. 

But....I'd love to be proved wrong.  Because we NEED to do something.  Not even for this season, but just so all of out vaunted "assets" we've spent 3 years collecting, don't start expiring with nothing to show for them.

3rd year of the rebuild.  Did you expect to already have draft & developed a superstar talent, get super star trade and sign superstar FA in 2.5 years?

I think your assessment is misguided.  I'm not mad at the Celtics moves or lack thereof.  When they're there, they're there, and Danny has a decent track record of being able to come up with something creative. 

Rather (at least as far as my statements go) the frustration comes from other commentors on forums like these.  People that assume we just go and get a Blake Griffin or a Tobias Harris just like that and everything will be solved once we pair them with "Free Agent X" who will surely sign with us even though we've never lured a big name free agent ever (and please stop with the "we've never had cap room before" argument.  Everyone is going to have caproom this year coming up, and no one big is coming to Boston.  At best we're overpaying for a C or D level addition along iwth the majority of the league). 

And that's where the "pessimism" with regards to fireworks and big trades comes in.  Personally, I'd rather our executives just have faith in us being smart fans, rather than feeling they have to tell us they're shooting for the moon every single time.  We know DA is a capable GM (when it comes to trading at least.  Drafting is a different story) and that Wyc will spend money, but we also know this is Boston.  All pumping up the fans with false hope of fireworks and superstars does is create a groundswell of disappointment the majority of fans land in again and again. 

Offline vjcsmoke

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I wouldn't give up anything major for a Gallinari.  A nice complementary piece but not a game changer.

On the other hand if Blake Griffin is the prize, that's a whole different ballpark.  In that case high draft picks and our rotation players become part of the discussion.  Maybe Sullinger plus high picks are the main parts of the package.  Much as I like Sully, if Griffin becomes our starting PF, we're going to need minutes for him and I'm not sure we can afford to pay and keep both.  IMO Griffin can be the superstar that takes this team to the next level.

The Clippers are talented enough that they are still winning without Blake, and probably wouldn't notice the dropoff to Sullinger.  For us, Blake could become the centerpiece star that we've been missing and might attract other stars to play in Boston.

Offline LooseCannon

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I wouldn't give up anything major for a Gallinari.  A nice complementary piece but not a game changer.

Gallinari is about as valuable as Isaiah Thomas (slightly less so when you consider contracts), so I would look at how much value I would want back in return for trading Thomas and be willing to trade somewhat less than that for Gallo, since I want to win the trade and bring back more value than I send out.
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Offline vjcsmoke

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The thing about Gallinari is that I don't believe his efficiency has gone up, it's his usage rate.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gallida01.html

If you compare his shooting percentages this year vs his breakout season at age 21, they are actually slightly lower for fg%, 2p%, 3p%, and efg%

So it's not his skill level that has increased rather, he's been given an increased role in the offense and he hasn't hesitated to take the shot that his team needs.

I believe Gallinari is a good player, but he's not the "star" player that we've been searching for.  I also agree that Isaiah Thomas is more valuable because he provides scoring at a position, PG, that traditionally doesn't provide a lot of scoring except from a select few players, the Russell Westbrooks, the Chris Pauls, etc.

PS Hell no, I wouldn't trade I. Thomas.  Finding his combination of skills and scoring ability in a PG is just too rare.