Shakeup coming in MIL?

[crimson_stallion]

The jury is not out.

A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Comparing him to LeBron or Carmelo is absurd -- it stinks of blind Duke fandom. He's not even close to being the best player on his own (bad) team. And for those who keep talking about "context" regarding his knee injury... why should that make me want to trade for him?

So, I'll state again clearly and unequivocally that Smart + a BKLN pick would be a miserable deal for the Cs.

I do agree about Smart + BKN 100%. But that's far different from saying the book is closed on Parker and that he couldn't possibly ever measure up to even Carmelo Anthony.

Rookie years. Note that Parker had every opportunity to improve in the 2nd half if he doesn't get hurt.

Parker:
12 and 6 on 10 FGA (49%) in 30 minutes (2 assists, 1 steal)

Melo:
21 and 6 on 18 FGA (42%) in 36 minutes (3 assists, 1 steal)

It's not exactly crazy to imagine giving Parker 6 more minutes and 8 more shots per night, and these lines coming out the same.

No, he's not LeBron, but that's a bar that breaks every comparison outside of GOAT.

That's... actually genuinely crazy.

The most striking thing when comparing 20yo Parker with 20yo Melo isn't that Parker isn't nearly as good a scorer, but that he's also noticeably worse at sharing the ball.  Which is pretty [dang]ing given Melo's reputation as a passer.

Melo I think was also a better defender - and that's saying something, because he'e never been known as even an adequate one.

[jr_3421]

Forget Parker, what's the asking price on John Henson? I've always liked his length and shot-blocking ability.

I agree 100%. Not sold on him being a starter but I love the idea of him and Kelly coming off the bench. Plus he's locked up on a reasonable contract considering the cap spike.

[Lucky17]

Forget Parker, what's the asking price on John Henson? I've always liked his length and shot-blocking ability.

I agree 100%. Not sold on him being a starter but I love the idea of him and Kelly coming off the bench. Plus he's locked up on a reasonable contract considering the cap spike.

I think he extended for 3 years, $33 million or so. Not sure if that's reasonable given his production.

Edit: 4 years, $48 million, starting next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/john-henson/

[byennie]

That's... actually genuinely crazy.

Nice argument.

How about the numbers:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=anthoca01&y2=2015&p2=parkeja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Give Parker 7 more FGA every 100 possession and tell me how these two players are totally different. Anthony shoots more free throws. Parker scores more efficiently even with FTs factored in. Parker is a better rebounder. Anthony is a better passer.

Would I take Parker at 19 over Anthony at 19? I didn't say that. But if you're telling me they aren't even remotely comparable, pretty much all the numbers disagree. Not to mention that Anthony was one of the better 19 year-olds in NBA history and hasn't improved as much since then as many people would have liked.


True shooting percentage:
53% to 51% (Parker)

Rebounding:
10.7% to 9.4% (Parker)

Assists:
13.8% to 9.5% (Anthony)

Steals:
2.1% to 1.7% (Parker)

Blocks:
1.0% to 0.6% (Anthony)

FT rate:
.36 to .25 (Anthony)

FGA (per 100)
25 to 18 (Anthony)

Points
29.6 to 21.3 (Anthony)

[byennie]

The jury is not out.

A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Comparing him to LeBron or Carmelo is absurd -- it stinks of blind Duke fandom. He's not even close to being the best player on his own (bad) team. And for those who keep talking about "context" regarding his knee injury... why should that make me want to trade for him?

So, I'll state again clearly and unequivocally that Smart + a BKLN pick would be a miserable deal for the Cs.

I do agree about Smart + BKN 100%. But that's far different from saying the book is closed on Parker and that he couldn't possibly ever measure up to even Carmelo Anthony.

Rookie years. Note that Parker had every opportunity to improve in the 2nd half if he doesn't get hurt.

Parker:
12 and 6 on 10 FGA (49%) in 30 minutes (2 assists, 1 steal)

Melo:
21 and 6 on 18 FGA (42%) in 36 minutes (3 assists, 1 steal)

It's not exactly crazy to imagine giving Parker 6 more minutes and 8 more shots per night, and these lines coming out the same.

No, he's not LeBron, but that's a bar that breaks every comparison outside of GOAT.

That's... actually genuinely crazy.

The most striking thing when comparing 20yo Parker with 20yo Melo isn't that Parker isn't nearly as good a scorer, but that he's also noticeably worse at sharing the ball.  Which is pretty [dang]ing given Melo's reputation as a passer.

Melo I think was also a better defender - and that's saying something, because he'e never been known as even an adequate one.

Blocks, steals and defensive rating all put them about the same as rookies. (Parker with a slight edge in steals and DRtg)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=anthoca01&y2=2015&p2=parkeja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

[jr_3421]

Forget Parker, what's the asking price on John Henson? I've always liked his length and shot-blocking ability.

I agree 100%. Not sold on him being a starter but I love the idea of him and Kelly coming off the bench. Plus he's locked up on a reasonable contract considering the cap spike.

I think he extended for 3 years, $33 million or so. Not sure if that's reasonable given his production.

Edit: 4 years, $48 million, starting next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/john-henson/

When the cap goes up to $90mil, he will take up 13% of the cap and when it goes up to $109 mil, he will take up 11%. I think that's a reasonable contract even if we are talking about a backup.

[Lucky17]

Forget Parker, what's the asking price on John Henson? I've always liked his length and shot-blocking ability.

I agree 100%. Not sold on him being a starter but I love the idea of him and Kelly coming off the bench. Plus he's locked up on a reasonable contract considering the cap spike.

I think he extended for 3 years, $33 million or so. Not sure if that's reasonable given his production.

Edit: 4 years, $48 million, starting next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/john-henson/

When the cap goes up to $90mil, he will take up 13% of the cap and when it goes up to $109 mil, he will take up 11%. I think that's a reasonable contract even if we are talking about a backup.

Hopefully, he turns into a capable backup. 7 and 4 in 16 minutes a night right now.

[crimson_stallion]

That's... actually genuinely crazy.

Nice argument.

How about the numbers:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=anthoca01&y2=2015&p2=parkeja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Give Parker 7 more FGA every 100 possession and tell me how these two players are totally different. Anthony shoots more free throws. Parker scores more efficiently even with FTs factored in. Parker is a better rebounder. Anthony is a better passer.

Would I take Parker at 19 over Anthony at 19? I didn't say that. But if you're telling me they aren't even remotely comparable, pretty much all the numbers disagree. Not to mention that Anthony was one of the better 19 year-olds in NBA history and hasn't improved as much since then as many people would have liked.

Huh? 

Melo has been in the league for 13 seasons with career averages of 25/6/3, he's averaged over 26 PPG 9 times, over 28 PPG four times and has never once averaged under 20 PPG. 

His career scoring numbers are above James Harden and Dwyane Wade, on par with Kobe, and not that far off Lebron and KD.

He is probably one of the top 5 scorers of the past decade, and when his career is over he will undoubtedly go down as one of the best scorers in NBA history, considering that his current career numbers are up there with guys like Kobe and Dominique.

Your comparing that to a guy who, after two seasons in the league, has still yet to average more than 12 PPG.

The simple reality is this - Jabari Parker isn't getting 8 more Field Goal Attempts because he hasn't earned them.  He hasn't been good enough offensively to earn a role as the Bucks go-to scorer, so he doesn't get the touches.  If he was even REMOTELY comparable to Carmelo as a scorer, he'd be playing 35 minutes and getting his extra 8 field goal attempts.

But he's not, so instead he's struggling to earn starter minutes, and putting up trash numbers on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Don't get me wrong I understand your statistical comparison, but you can't just go to the "if he was getting X more attempts..." argument without considering WHY he isn't getting x more attempts.

He's a #2 pick on one of the leagues worst teams, and he is still struggling to earn a role as a 4th option on offense behind Monroe, Middleton and Giannis - and to add insult to injury, neither of those guys (who are all above Parker in the food chain) really is a great scorer.  Monroe is a good scorer, but I wouldn't say he is a great one.  The other two are merely above average scorers.

[Ilikesports17]

That's... actually genuinely crazy.

Nice argument.

How about the numbers:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=anthoca01&y2=2015&p2=parkeja01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Give Parker 7 more FGA every 100 possession and tell me how these two players are totally different. Anthony shoots more free throws. Parker scores more efficiently even with FTs factored in. Parker is a better rebounder. Anthony is a better passer.

Would I take Parker at 19 over Anthony at 19? I didn't say that. But if you're telling me they aren't even remotely comparable, pretty much all the numbers disagree. Not to mention that Anthony was one of the better 19 year-olds in NBA history and hasn't improved as much since then as many people would have liked.

Huh? 

Melo has been in the league for 13 seasons with career averages of 25/6/3, he's averaged over 26 PPG 9 times, over 28 PPG four times and has never once averaged under 20 PPG. 

His career scoring numbers are above James Harden and Dwyane Wade, on par with Kobe, and not that far off Lebron and KD.

He is probably one of the top 5 scorers of the past decade, and when his career is over he will undoubtedly go down as one of the best scorers in NBA history, considering that his current career numbers are up there with guys like Kobe and Dominique.

Your comparing that to a guy who, after two seasons in the league, has still yet to average more than 12 PPG.

The simple reality is this - Jabari Parker isn't getting 8 more Field Goal Attempts because he hasn't earned them.  He hasn't been good enough offensively to earn a role as the Bucks go-to scorer, so he doesn't get the touches.  If he was even REMOTELY comparable to Carmelo as a scorer, he'd be playing 35 minutes and getting his extra 8 field goal attempts.

But he's not, so instead he's struggling to earn starter minutes, and putting up trash numbers on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Don't get me wrong I understand your statistical comparison, but you can't just go to the "if he was getting X more attempts..." argument without considering WHY he isn't getting x more attempts.

He's a #2 pick on one of the leagues worst teams, and he is still struggling to earn a role as a 4th option on offense behind Monroe, Middleton and Giannis - and to add insult to injury, neither of those guys (who are all above Parker in the food chain) really is a great scorer.  Monroe is a good scorer, but I wouldn't say he is a great one.  The other two are merely above average scorers.

Do you forget that he was seen prior to his injury as the only guy from the hyped class to be living up to the billing?

Once again he's been in the league for 2 seasons but played less than 80 games and ~50 of them have been on the heels of an ACL injury.

[loco_91]

“From what I’m hearing is they (the Bucks) are willing to trade anybody not named Parker, Antetokounmpo or Middleton,’’ an NBA executive said. “I even heard they'd listen (to offers) for Parker and Middleton, but it would have to be some crazy offer.

"They want to do something; they know they have to do something. That group they have isn’t working.’’

I'm not giving them anything for Monroe, which is the redo that they really want here. He's a good player, but paying his salary would be quite enough, thank you very much.

A crazy offer, eh? Ok I'll offer Smart and the Nets '16 pick for Jabari Parker and MCW.

Oh god no...

[trickybilly]

The Bucks probably value their assets as follows in descending order:

Giannis
Parker
Middle
Monroe
Henson
MCW

I might be wrong about MCW though. He is playing really well atm.

[Quetzalcoatl]

“From what I’m hearing is they (the Bucks) are willing to trade anybody not named Parker, Antetokounmpo or Middleton,’’ an NBA executive said. “I even heard they'd listen (to offers) for Parker and Middleton, but it would have to be some crazy offer.

"They want to do something; they know they have to do something. That group they have isn’t working.’’

I'm not giving them anything for Monroe, which is the redo that they really want here. He's a good player, but paying his salary would be quite enough, thank you very much.

A crazy offer, eh? Ok I'll offer Smart and the Nets '16 pick for Jabari Parker and MCW.

Oh god no...

Yeesh I can only imagine how fast the Bucks would agree to that one, what an overpay.  Taking on MCW is a negative at this point.  I'd consider trading the Nets pick if it was 6th overall this off season, but trading Smart would really hurt.  Jabari Parker is good and I'm sure Stevens would have a huge impact on him, but Smart is basically at the same level of production right now and improving.

[LilRip]

After Giannis, the player I'd want most from that Bucks team is Parker. He's still practically a rookie. I don't know why so many on this board have given up on him. Well, hopefully the Bucks GM thinks the same as most of you guys do. Would AB+Sully+Dallas 2016 1st+Boston future 1st+2 2nd rounders do?

[aingeforthree]

After Giannis, the player I'd want most from that Bucks team is Parker. He's still practically a rookie. I don't know why so many on this board have given up on him. Well, hopefully the Bucks GM thinks the same as most of you guys do. Would AB+Sully+Dallas 2016 1st+Boston future 1st+2 2nd rounders do?

Have to be 2016 Brooklyn pick or 2018.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Do people hee still want John Henson. I remember a few seasons back there was was a pretty big Henson is better than Sanders movement on this form