Author Topic: Shakeup coming in MIL?  (Read 19525 times)

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Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2016, 05:03:35 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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I'd take GA or Middleton over Parker at this point.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2016, 05:07:13 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Where do you want to put the goalposts here, ssspence. Are we talking about whether Parker is one of the 10 best players in the NBA, or are we talking about whether there's "evidence at all that he's going to be a good professional basketball player?"

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2016, 05:09:22 PM »

Offline oldtype

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I'd take GA or Middleton over Parker at this point.

It's not even really a question is it?

Not saying that Parker is going to be a bust but there's just very little place in the league right now  for an undersized PF or a wing who can't shoot threes. I can see where the Evan Turner comps come from: not that they're similar players, but they're players with odd skillsets that don't really fit the modern NBA.

He really needs to learn how to shoot and it's hard to see how he's going to do that when he's shooting 0% on about 10 attempts this season. He's worse at shooting than Marcus Smart, for crying out loud.


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Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2016, 05:15:43 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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TWO NETS PICKS? FOR PARKER? WUT?

Looks like some people base their judgment of player value too much on where a player was drafted. If so, there's a recent 2nd overall pick on our roster who started his NBA career just as well as Parker, better actually. What's Evan Turner worth, three Nets picks?
Evan turner came out of college 3 years older, was not as good as Parker to start his career, and halfway through his second season still would have had a lot of trade value.

That being said 2 Brooklyn picks is far too much.

I

Turner didn't start his NBA career with a knee injury, and he was productive in the playoffs right away. But okay, you're right, he was older and less efficient. And yep, around the same point in his career he could've fetched a lot in a trade. And the team getting him back would've been making a huge mistake. Just like a team giving up a Nets 1st (let alone two of them!) for Parker would be making. He is the definition of a one-dimensional player, and that dimension doesn't even include three pointers. Heck, at least Turner could do a decent point guard impression.
Some good points.

I think the Knee injury goes both ways. First it raises a concern that he won't get explosiveness back or will be an injury liability but that stuff tends to be overblown. (Steph Currys ankles, ABs everything, etc)

Second it means he is still trying to get back into form. I mean Marcus hasn't suffered anything half as debilitating and he's taken long stretches to get healthy.

last season Parker looked like the rookie of the year. Then he got hurt and has since then played half a season coming off a torn ACL I'm going to bet on the guy who was a top recruit in HS, then a top 2 pick then looked like the ROY, over the guy that's played half a year in a bad fit of a team coming off an injury.

Once again, 2 Brooklyn picks is a big overpay and prelotto I think 1 probably is too, but if we have pick #3 or worse id definitely pick up the phone
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Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2016, 05:18:40 PM »

Offline ssspence

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A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Where do you want to put the goalposts here, ssspence. Are we talking about whether Parker is one of the 10 best players in the NBA, or are we talking about whether there's "evidence at all that he's going to be a good professional basketball player?"

Put 'em wherever you want.

Statement: You compared him to young LBJ and 'Melo. Reality: laughable

Statement: byennie claimed the jury is still out on whether he's a franchise player. Reality: laughable

Statement: I questioned whether there's any evidence that he'll be a good NBA player. Reality: There isn't any yet. Good means above average, as far as I'm concerned. He's below average in many ways, and he's not athletic enough to improve dramatically. He's got some scoring chops driving to the hoop. That's it so far.
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Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2016, 05:19:27 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I would love to trade for Jabari but it would take a lot

Why? What evidence is there at all that he's going to be a good professional basketball player?



Really. He's a one dimensional player who's marginal at that dimension.

The notion of the BKLN pick plus Smart is laughable. I can understand the Bucks wanting to keep him considering they invested the 2nd pick in the draft on him, but the guy is overrated due to that fact.

Nope I don't buy it. You're either trolling or just feeling silly. He's has a crazy complete offensive game for his age that pretty decisively outclassed the rest of the NCAA in an extremely strong draft year. Now at age 20 with less than a season's worth of games under his belt, his performance at the NBA level would put him right in league with a young Lebron James or Carmelo Anthony. You are taking the conventional wisdom about Parker's defensive weakness to an illogical extreme.

You and I obviously see a very different guy on Bucks league pass. He's a below average passer and rebounder, he's shooting 0% from 3 point range (not a typo), he's averaging a rockin' 11 PPG on a bad team.... oh yeah, and his defense blows. He's 93 out of 95 eligible PFs in RPM.

LeBron James? Not exactly. Carmelo Anthony? Ummm...
He's coming off an ACL tear and I think the fit is bad. Last year prior to his injury he was the obvious choice for ROY.

He still has a very very high ceiling.

I'd probably trade the #3 pick in this draft for him.

Unless Bender Brown or someone really breaks out towards the draft.

Good for you. Just don't GM my team.

"Parker has the speed to blow by any opposing power forward off the dribble, but it's hard to blow by someone standing 10 feet in front of you. Slower guys can wait for Parker in the paint, challenge him at the rim, and watch him fling up ugly floaters in a crowd." ~Zach Lowe

I'm no Marcus Smart homer, but he's a significantly better NBA player than Parker right now -- period.

Maybe he'll find a better... fit. Maybe he'll learn to shoot. Maybe he'll get better defensively. But I'm not betting Smart AND any of the BKLN picks on that. It's just bad business.

He's basically Derrick Williams with more pedigree cuz he went to Duke. Pass. Trade for Middleton instead.

You make a lot of valid points, but don't you think you might be judging him too harshly?

He was given the go ahead to return to action just before the season if I recall correctly and ACLs are known for taking a year to get back in the game and another few months to get back to your peak.

He'd shown nothing star potential prior to the tear.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2016, 05:24:23 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Where do you want to put the goalposts here, ssspence. Are we talking about whether Parker is one of the 10 best players in the NBA, or are we talking about whether there's "evidence at all that he's going to be a good professional basketball player?"

There's evidence that Parker could be a pretty good professional basketball scorer...except for three pointers. There is zero evidence that Parker is going to be good at basketball in any other way. There is zero evidence that Parker is capable of being better than, say, Ron Mercer. A lower-middle-class man's DeRozan seems like his ceiling. I don't even know if he's worth two non-Nets picks.
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Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2016, 05:24:56 PM »

Offline byennie

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The jury is not out.

A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Comparing him to LeBron or Carmelo is absurd -- it stinks of blind Duke fandom. He's not even close to being the best player on his own (bad) team. And for those who keep talking about "context" regarding his knee injury... why should that make me want to trade for him?

So, I'll state again clearly and unequivocally that Smart + a BKLN pick would be a miserable deal for the Cs.

I do agree about Smart + BKN 100%. But that's far different from saying the book is closed on Parker and that he couldn't possibly ever measure up to even Carmelo Anthony.

Rookie years. Note that Parker had every opportunity to improve in the 2nd half if he doesn't get hurt.

Parker:
12 and 6 on 10 FGA (49%) in 30 minutes (2 assists, 1 steal)

Melo:
21 and 6 on 18 FGA (42%) in 36 minutes (3 assists, 1 steal)

It's not exactly crazy to imagine giving Parker 6 more minutes and 8 more shots per night, and these lines coming out the same.

No, he's not LeBron, but that's a bar that breaks every comparison outside of GOAT.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2016, 05:25:24 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Forget Parker, what's the asking price on John Henson? I've always liked his length and shot-blocking ability.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2016, 05:33:05 PM »

Offline ssspence

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The jury is not out.

A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Comparing him to LeBron or Carmelo is absurd -- it stinks of blind Duke fandom. He's not even close to being the best player on his own (bad) team. And for those who keep talking about "context" regarding his knee injury... why should that make me want to trade for him?

So, I'll state again clearly and unequivocally that Smart + a BKLN pick would be a miserable deal for the Cs.

I do agree about Smart + BKN 100%. But that's far different from saying the book is closed on Parker and that he couldn't possibly ever measure up to even Carmelo Anthony.

Rookie years. Note that Parker had every opportunity to improve in the 2nd half if he doesn't get hurt.

Parker:
12 and 6 on 10 FGA (49%) in 30 minutes (2 assists, 1 steal)

Melo:
21 and 6 on 18 FGA (42%) in 36 minutes (3 assists, 1 steal)

It's not exactly crazy to imagine giving Parker 6 more minutes and 8 more shots per night, and these lines coming out the same.

No, he's not LeBron, but that's a bar that breaks every comparison outside of GOAT.

Great, whatever. That's the Bucks problem. But the guy literally HAS to learn to shoot the 3, or he's got serious serious issues as a valuable NBA player...
Mike

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Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2016, 05:35:00 PM »

Offline oldtype

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The jury is not out.

A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Comparing him to LeBron or Carmelo is absurd -- it stinks of blind Duke fandom. He's not even close to being the best player on his own (bad) team. And for those who keep talking about "context" regarding his knee injury... why should that make me want to trade for him?

So, I'll state again clearly and unequivocally that Smart + a BKLN pick would be a miserable deal for the Cs.

I do agree about Smart + BKN 100%. But that's far different from saying the book is closed on Parker and that he couldn't possibly ever measure up to even Carmelo Anthony.

Rookie years. Note that Parker had every opportunity to improve in the 2nd half if he doesn't get hurt.

Parker:
12 and 6 on 10 FGA (49%) in 30 minutes (2 assists, 1 steal)

Melo:
21 and 6 on 18 FGA (42%) in 36 minutes (3 assists, 1 steal)

It's not exactly crazy to imagine giving Parker 6 more minutes and 8 more shots per night, and these lines coming out the same.

No, he's not LeBron, but that's a bar that breaks every comparison outside of GOAT.

That's... actually genuinely crazy.


Great words from a great man

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2016, 05:37:23 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Um... http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2005&p1=anthoca01&y2=2005&p2=jamesle01&y3=2016&p3=parkeja01&p4=&p5=&p6=

I guess he shoots better than they did, though at a much lower volume and closer to the rim.  Otherwise, I don't see it.

That's ok, but after 70 career nba games, a more fair comparison would be http://bkref.com/tiny/vts7k. You can obviously poke some holes in the comparison either way, but I'd like to contrast it for a moment with the assertion that Parker hasn't shown any reason for us to think he'll be a good NBA player!!!

You said age 20, I was comparing their age 20 seasons.  This one is closer to equal on games played, but not on age, which I'd say is more important when comparing development.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2016, 05:38:29 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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The Bucks aren't trading Parker because:

1) they seem to understand that last year was a bit of a fluke. I think they're *very* reticent of becoming the Eastern Conference's Phoenix Suns.

2) he's on a rookie contract for another two years. They have all the time in the world to see what they have in the guy they drafted second overall. He's just 20 years old and is coming off an ACL tear. There's no point in trading him when they're so early in their rebuilding process and he fits their timeline.

The *only* way I could see them trading Parker is at the draft if someone's willing to swap a top 3 pick for him.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2016, 05:39:03 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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The jury is not out.

A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Comparing him to LeBron or Carmelo is absurd -- it stinks of blind Duke fandom. He's not even close to being the best player on his own (bad) team. And for those who keep talking about "context" regarding his knee injury... why should that make me want to trade for him?

So, I'll state again clearly and unequivocally that Smart + a BKLN pick would be a miserable deal for the Cs.

I do agree about Smart + BKN 100%. But that's far different from saying the book is closed on Parker and that he couldn't possibly ever measure up to even Carmelo Anthony.

Rookie years. Note that Parker had every opportunity to improve in the 2nd half if he doesn't get hurt.

Parker:
12 and 6 on 10 FGA (49%) in 30 minutes (2 assists, 1 steal)

Melo:
21 and 6 on 18 FGA (42%) in 36 minutes (3 assists, 1 steal)

It's not exactly crazy to imagine giving Parker 6 more minutes and 8 more shots per night, and these lines coming out the same.

No, he's not LeBron, but that's a bar that breaks every comparison outside of GOAT.

That's... actually genuinely crazy.

The most striking thing when comparing 20yo Parker with 20yo Melo isn't that Parker isn't nearly as good a scorer, but that he's also noticeably worse at sharing the ball.  Which is pretty [dang]ing given Melo's reputation as a passer.

Re: Shakeup coming in MIL?
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2016, 06:07:52 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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A 'franchise player" (of which there are about 10 in the NBA) can typically do many of, if not all of, the following: shoot from distance (kiiiiiiiinda important in today's NBA), pass, rebound, defend. Parker's not good at any of them.

Where do you want to put the goalposts here, ssspence. Are we talking about whether Parker is one of the 10 best players in the NBA, or are we talking about whether there's "evidence at all that he's going to be a good professional basketball player?"

Put 'em wherever you want.

Statement: You compared him to young LBJ and 'Melo. Reality: laughable

Statement: byennie claimed the jury is still out on whether he's a franchise player. Reality: laughable

Statement: I questioned whether there's any evidence that he'll be a good NBA player. Reality: There isn't any yet. Good means above average, as far as I'm concerned. He's below average in many ways, and he's not athletic enough to improve dramatically. He's got some scoring chops driving to the hoop. That's it so far.

Sadly for Parker, I tend to agree with all of this.

I'm not counting out the possibility that Parker could become a solid NBA player one day, but the chance of him ever become a great player is pretty low. 

I'm thinking that if he could improve his defense and three point shooting (not out of the question) then I feel he could become a Jared Dudley type, maybe a Joe Johnson absolute best case.

The problem is that there just isn't a lot of success typically in the NBA for swingmen with mediocre athleticism - guys like that needs to be incredibly skilled and need to have a killer instinct (e.g. Pierce, Melo) in order to be able to become stars in this league. 

Parker has some skills - enough to be a solid career starter I think, but even that is under threat if he doesn't learn to play at least NEAR respectable defense.

The thing that saves Parker IMHO is that he has good size for a wing and he's a good rebounder for a wing.  Problem is that once you move him to PF (to make up for his lack of athleticism) then he becomes a PF with average size and sub-par rebounding...and he still has major defensive limitations. 

From day one, long before the draft, I always said that I thought Parker was being massively overrated.  Parker was never that athletic, but he was big enough and strong enough to dominate guys at the college level.  NBA is a whole other ball game, and guys at his position in the NBA tend to be just as big/strong if not moreso...and everybody has skills.

Only guy on the Bucks I'd be that interested in would probably be Monroe, followed by Giannis and then probably Middleton.  Nobody else there interests me that much.