Would you swap The Nets pick For Hayward

[kozlodoev]

 Nope Dino, We could easily get the 4th pick. Who would you take at 4. He certainly wouldn't be better than Gordon for a long time.

Hayward is a pretty decent player, but we don't really need a pretty decent player in hand, we need a great player in the bush.

[PhoSita]

I really like Hayward.  One of my favorite non-Celtics.  Hard to do better if you're looking for a versatile wing player who isn't quite a perennial All-Star candidate.


All of that said, no, I wouldn't trade the 2016 Nets pick for him.  It's not a huge likelihood, but that pick has a significant chance of turning into the kind of prospect that sets the agenda for your franchise for a decade or two. 

If it were my choice, I would not trade that pick until after we know for sure where it will end up in the draft.

[PhoSita]

we need a great player in the bush.

I'm going to refrain from jumping all over this, but I just wanted to note how amusing this is.

[SHAQATTACK]

Noooooooooo O

And I like Hayward a lot.    Super player .

[LarBrd33]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

[CelticSince83]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

TP for this.  Couldn't have put it any better. 

[Eddie20]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

Wait a minute, since you're giving such little percentage of a top pick ending up better than Hayward, then why all the hype on the Sixers draft picks? You can't have it both ways, man. You need to stay consistent with your beliefs regardless on who the team is.

[LarBrd33]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

Wait a minute, since you're giving such little percentage of a top pick ending up better than Hayward, then why all the hype on the Sixers draft picks? You can't have it both ways, man. You need to stay consistent with your beliefs regardless on who the team is.

Philly has the worst record.  Brooklyn has the 3rd worst record.  People are underrating Hayward a bit.  There's very likely a couple players in this draft who likely will end up better than Hayward. But with half a season left we don't know whether the pick will land one of them and whether that player will live up to his potential. 

Even if we agreed that Brooklyn would stay in the bottom 3 and even if we agreed that both Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram would be significantly better than Hayward... If the season ends today there's a 68.7% chance we don't end up with a top 2 pick.   With half a season left and multiple teams tanking, who knows what will happen.

It's impossible to come up with real odds here, but the odds that the pick ends up being better than Hayward are staggeringly low.  Hayward is an all-star caliber player.  We are rolling the dice against the odds that we land a superstar instead.  I get it, but I also get why Zach Lowe suggested we move the pick for Hayward. 

Also Ed, once again you blatantly miss my point on philly.  If the Brooklyn pick could net us Hayward than obviously the philly pick could as well.  Factor that into their options heading forward when considering their bounty of assets.  Maybe you will finally get it.

[Eddie20]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

Wait a minute, since you're giving such little percentage of a top pick ending up better than Hayward, then why all the hype on the Sixers draft picks? You can't have it both ways, man. You need to stay consistent with your beliefs regardless on who the team is.

Philly has the worst record.  Brooklyn has the 3rd worst record.  People are underrating Hayward a bit.  There's very likely a couple players in this draft who likely will end up better than Hayward. But with half a season left we don't know whether the pick will land one of them and whether that player will live up to his potential. 

Even if we agreed that Brooklyn would stay in the bottom 3 and even if we agreed that both Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram would be significantly better than Hayward... If the season ends today there's a 68.7% chance we don't end up with a top 2 pick.   With half a season left and multiple teams tanking, who knows what will happen.

It's impossible to come up with real odds here, but the odds that the pick ends up being better than Hayward are staggeringly low.  Hayward is an all-star caliber player.  We are rolling the dice against the odds that we land a superstar instead.  I get it, but I also get why Zach Lowe suggested we move the pick for Hayward. 

Also Ed, once again you blatantly miss my point on philly.  If the Brooklyn pick could net us Hayward than obviously the philly pick could as well.  Factor that into their options heading forward when considering their bounty of assets.  Maybe you will finally get it.

You gave us a 5% chance of not landing a player as good as Hayward. Then state we have a 31.3% of getting a top 2 pick. Your math just doesn't add up.

Hate to break it to you, but Brooklyn sucked when the season began, currently sucks, and will continue to suck.

[slamtheking]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

if Hayward ended up being the 5th pick (at worst) in a redraft of any draft class, that would be an absolutely horrendous draft.  I have little doubt that pick will be no worse than #5 and that whomever gets selected at that spot will have a better career (and if not that specific player, at least one player taken after that pick -- to allow for the varying draft skills of GMs)

[LarBrd33]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

Wait a minute, since you're giving such little percentage of a top pick ending up better than Hayward, then why all the hype on the Sixers draft picks? You can't have it both ways, man. You need to stay consistent with your beliefs regardless on who the team is.

Philly has the worst record.  Brooklyn has the 3rd worst record.  People are underrating Hayward a bit.  There's very likely a couple players in this draft who likely will end up better than Hayward. But with half a season left we don't know whether the pick will land one of them and whether that player will live up to his potential. 

Even if we agreed that Brooklyn would stay in the bottom 3 and even if we agreed that both Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram would be significantly better than Hayward... If the season ends today there's a 68.7% chance we don't end up with a top 2 pick.   With half a season left and multiple teams tanking, who knows what will happen.

It's impossible to come up with real odds here, but the odds that the pick ends up being better than Hayward are staggeringly low.  Hayward is an all-star caliber player.  We are rolling the dice against the odds that we land a superstar instead.  I get it, but I also get why Zach Lowe suggested we move the pick for Hayward. 

Also Ed, once again you blatantly miss my point on philly.  If the Brooklyn pick could net us Hayward than obviously the philly pick could as well.  Factor that into their options heading forward when considering their bounty of assets.  Maybe you will finally get it.

You gave us a 5% chance of not landing a player as good as Hayward. Then state we have a 31.3% of getting a top 2 pick. Your math just doesn't add up.

Hate to break it to you, but Brooklyn sucked when the season began, currently sucks, and will continue to suck.

#1 - Assume that the wide-spread belief that Ingram and Simmons will be better than Hayward is true and that after them there's a significant drop off.

#2 - Assume Brooklyn stays in the bottom 3.

If the season ends today, based on those two assumptions, Boston has a 31.3% chance of ending up with a better player than Hayward.

Now let's step out of that bubble and recognize the following.

#1 - It's not a guarantee Brooklyn stays in the bottom 3.   The Suns and Wolves are on their heels.  If, for instance, they drop to 5th, we're looking at an 18.5% chance of landing Simmons or Ingram.   Know for a fact that we have half a season to play and as the season winds down, Brooklyn will not be tanking... Suns, Wolves and several other teams will.   Factor that in.

#2 - It's not a guarantee that either Ingram or Simmons will end up better than Hayward.  Factor that in.

If you've read what I said and your level of reading comprehension leads you to believe that Boston currently has a 31.3% chance of ending up with a better player than Hayward, I dunno what to say.  Have someone other than me explain it to you.  I feel like every time I post, you just cross your eyes and bang a tin pot on your head until my words say what you think they say.

Like I said, it's impossible to really come up with a true % of how likely it is that the pick ends up better than Hayward.  Ask some Utah fans and they'd undoubtedly tell you there's a 0% chance any pick in this draft ends up better than Hayward.  He's averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals on 44%/38%/82% shooting and he's 25 years old.  He's already a borderline all-star and he seems to be improving.   If you listen to Simmons most recent "Friday Rollin" podcast with Joe House, they suggested that Hayward can be even better than he currently appears based on the idea that he's literally never played with a quality point guard. 

But what I can say pretty confidently right now is that the odds that the Brooklyn pick ends up a better player than Gordon Hayward is significantly low right now. 

All that said, I don't think I'd move that pick for Gordon Hayward.  The allure of a true superstar is too powerful.   Even if the SUns and Wolves drop below the Nets leaving us with an 8.8% chance of landing Ben Simmons... it's fun to dream about... and who knows, maybe we can even get a bigger fish than Hayward by using that pick.  Could we package it for Blake Griffin at the deadline?  Kevin Love?  The goal is to get a superstar... and Hayward, as good as he is, isn't a superstar.  I totally get the "superstar or bust" mentality and that's why I'd probably turn down the offer despite the fact I know how low the odds are.   Also, it's still early... perhaps a couple other guys (like Dragon Bender or something) become major factors.  If you're rolling the dice on the "next LeBron" and your consolation prize is "the next Olynyk", maybe it's worth passing on a guy like Hayward.   Nobody is winning a title without a superstar in this league and the best route towards one is through the draft... this is our best real chance at getting one beyond signing Durant.   

Post-lotto if that pick is sitting at #1... nobody in their right mind is trading that pick for Gordon Hayward.  But be careful when debating this not to assume that the pick will be #1.   This isn't Ben Simmons vs Gordon Hayward.   It's the Brooklyn pick vs Gordon Hayward. 

[LarBrd33]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

if Hayward ended up being the 5th pick (at worst) in a redraft of any draft class, that would be an absolutely horrendous draft.  I have little doubt that pick will be no worse than #5 and that whomever gets selected at that spot will have a better career (and if not that specific player, at least one player taken after that pick -- to allow for the varying draft skills of GMs)

Yeah, like I said... Hayward seems pretty underrated around here.  I disagree with your statement.   If the 5th pick in a re-draft ends up averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals on 44%/38%/82% shooting... the 4 guys above him must be pretty [dang] good.  We took Marcus SMart 6th... if he puts up those kind of numbers eventually, I'll be absolutely thrilled.

Also, re-drafts take into account every rookie who entered that year.   There's always potential to mis-fire with a top 5 pick. 

[Eddie20]

It is far more likely that Hayward ends up better than what that pick ends up being.  But we aren't going anywhere without a superstar and that pick gives us a shot at one... even if we are talking like a 5% chance the pick ends up a better player than Hayward.

Wait a minute, since you're giving such little percentage of a top pick ending up better than Hayward, then why all the hype on the Sixers draft picks? You can't have it both ways, man. You need to stay consistent with your beliefs regardless on who the team is.

Philly has the worst record.  Brooklyn has the 3rd worst record.  People are underrating Hayward a bit.  There's very likely a couple players in this draft who likely will end up better than Hayward. But with half a season left we don't know whether the pick will land one of them and whether that player will live up to his potential. 

Even if we agreed that Brooklyn would stay in the bottom 3 and even if we agreed that both Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram would be significantly better than Hayward... If the season ends today there's a 68.7% chance we don't end up with a top 2 pick.   With half a season left and multiple teams tanking, who knows what will happen.

It's impossible to come up with real odds here, but the odds that the pick ends up being better than Hayward are staggeringly low.  Hayward is an all-star caliber player.  We are rolling the dice against the odds that we land a superstar instead.  I get it, but I also get why Zach Lowe suggested we move the pick for Hayward. 

Also Ed, once again you blatantly miss my point on philly.  If the Brooklyn pick could net us Hayward than obviously the philly pick could as well.  Factor that into their options heading forward when considering their bounty of assets.  Maybe you will finally get it.

You gave us a 5% chance of not landing a player as good as Hayward. Then state we have a 31.3% of getting a top 2 pick. Your math just doesn't add up.

Hate to break it to you, but Brooklyn sucked when the season began, currently sucks, and will continue to suck.

#1 - Assume that the wide-spread belief that Ingram and Simmons will be better than Hayward is true and that after them there's a significant drop off.

#2 - Assume Brooklyn stays in the bottom 3.

If the season ends today, based on those two assumptions, Boston has a 31.3% chance of ending up with a better player than Hayward.

Now let's step out of that bubble and recognize the following.

#1 - It's not a guarantee Brooklyn stays in the bottom 3.   The Suns and Wolves are on their heels.  If, for instance, they drop to 5th, we're looking at an 18.5% chance of landing Simmons or Ingram.   Know for a fact that we have half a season to play and as the season winds down, Brooklyn will not be tanking... Suns, Wolves and several other teams will.   Factor that in.

#2 - It's not a guarantee that either Ingram or Simmons will end up better than Hayward.  Factor that in.

If you've read what I said and your level of reading comprehension leads you to believe that Boston currently has a 31.3% chance of ending up with a better player than Hayward, I dunno what to say.  Have someone other than me explain it to you.  I feel like every time I post, you just cross your eyes and bang a tin pot on your head until my words say what you think they say.

Like I said, it's impossible to really come up with a true % of how likely it is that the pick ends up better than Hayward.  Ask some Utah fans and they'd undoubtedly tell you there's a 0% chance any pick in this draft ends up better than Hayward.  He's averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals on 44%/38%/82% shooting and he's 25 years old.  He's already a borderline all-star and he seems to be improving.   If you listen to Simmons most recent "Friday Rollin" podcast with Joe House, they suggested that Hayward can be even better than he currently appears based on the idea that he's literally never played with a quality point guard. 

But what I can say pretty confidently right now is that the odds that the Brooklyn pick ends up a better player than Gordon Hayward is significantly low right now. 

All that said, I don't think I'd move that pick for Gordon Hayward.  The allure of a true superstar is too powerful.   Even if the SUns and Wolves drop below the Nets leaving us with an 8.8% chance of landing Ben Simmons... it's fun to dream about... and who knows, maybe we can even get a bigger fish than Hayward by using that pick.  Could we package it for Blake Griffin at the deadline?  Kevin Love?  The goal is to get a superstar... and Hayward, as good as he is, isn't a superstar.  I totally get the "superstar or bust" mentality and that's why I'd probably turn down the offer despite the fact I know how low the odds are.   Also, it's still early... perhaps a couple other guys (like Dragon Bender or something) become major factors.  If you're rolling the dice on the "next LeBron" and your consolation prize is "the next Olynyk", maybe it's worth passing on a guy like Hayward.   Nobody is winning a title without a superstar in this league and the best route towards one is through the draft... this is our best real chance at getting one beyond signing Durant.   

Post-lotto if that pick is sitting at #1... nobody in their right mind is trading that pick for Gordon Hayward.  But be careful when debating this not to assume that the pick will be #1.   This isn't Ben Simmons vs Gordon Hayward.   It's the Brooklyn pick vs Gordon Hayward.

Can you elaborate on the reading comprehension part? I'm only posting numbers that you posted. So please Mr. Hawking can you enlighten me as to why your calculations should be taken any more serious than those faulty predictions you constantly flood us with?

[AngryAndIrritable]

No, No, Non, Nein, Nyet etcetera.

Not opposed to coughing up the Nets pick for a major game changing player, but Hayward? There are more asset-effective ways to take a tilt at him if we really wanted him. And with Crowder in the form of his life do we really need him?

[ssspence]

What is this boards infatuation with Hayward?

Jae Crowder literally gives us almost the same numbers, if not better in terms of defensive hustle and grit that he provides. Hayward is a 3rd option on a contender, and 2nd one at 'best,' his defense is mediocre, his passing is overrated due to the fact there aren't that many good playmakers on the team, high usage rate, and he takes extremely tough shots sometimes.

No thank you.

The Nets pick as many have stated only go for stars like Love, Cousins, Marc Gasol, etc.

Hayward if interested can sign with us in free agency if he truly wants to be a Celtic.

You can't trade a pick for players who aren't available.

Meanwhile, basketball's a team game, and Crowder and Hayward are not mutually exclusive. They can, ya know, play together.....

By the way, have you watched Hayward play? He's good.

And you know this how? Are you mutually exclusive with GM's behind closed doors? Do you have a crystal ball into the future?

By the way, Hayward is good, but he's not top 5 pick good.

You saying you think any of those players are available in trade to the Celtics right now? It doesn't take an NBA GM to figure it out -- just like it doesn't to know that Crowder and Hayward could play, and play well, together.