Poll

Crowder and Boston's 2016 first rounder for Kevin Love

Yes. You would have to..
26 (43.3%)
No. Crowder is the backbone of the team.
34 (56.7%)
I'd trade Crowder straight up no pick.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.  (Read 5306 times)

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Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2016, 09:12:58 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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so it's Crowder, Lee (for salary matching) and Boston #1 for Love?  I don't get the idea behind hesitating on this offer especially since we're not giving up a fortune by any means.

Everyone on this team is a role player.  period.  Love is a starter-quality player.  talent upgrade is what we need on the whole roster and this deal offers that.  it does leave us then at SF and increases the PF logjam but make the deal and figure out roster balancing this offseason or by making another trade.

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2016, 09:38:23 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Depends on the details of the contract ,  would Love sign a long term deal or get frustrated in Boston  and run off to the Lakers .

Not the 2016 nets first? .....a non Nets first

Crowder is loyal and good value .  He has found a home . Love will NOT be as loyal

Not sure Love even wants to,be in Boston any more than Cleveland.

Would Love really want to be in Boston , stick it out till a dominate team is compiled.  Maybe if Durrant was coming or such .

I m scared we d lose Love, our pick and Crowder in the end .....wind up going backwards. Basically what Cavs did .....throw away Wiggins ......then watch Love leave.

I would not trade for Love.   I d wait till he wanted to leave without having to,give up a lot .  You want him to WANT to,be a Celtic , not force him .

I d wait the season out see....what goes down in Cleveland ....a better deal could be had .....besides Love wants HIS shot at a title he missed last year . 

LeBron has out clause every summer , the Cavs are on thin ice , I d wait for the blow up.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 10:39:28 AM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2016, 09:41:05 AM »

Offline MBunge

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This seems like a no-brainer for Boston if Cleveland were actually willing to do it.

The only possible counterargument is Crowder will probably remain an effective role player when Boston gets better talent but Love has now spent a season and a half struggling mightily when he's not the best player who gets to do whatever he wants on the court.

Mike

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2016, 09:46:04 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I'm down on Love, and Crowder is an important player, but that trade would have to be done.


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Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2016, 09:52:27 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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so it's Crowder, Lee (for salary matching) and Boston #1 for Love?  I don't get the idea behind hesitating on this offer especially since we're not giving up a fortune by any means.

Everyone on this team is a role player.  period.  Love is a starter-quality player.  talent upgrade is what we need on the whole roster and this deal offers that.  it does leave us then at SF and increases the PF logjam but make the deal and figure out roster balancing this offseason or by making another trade.

Imagine if we not only got Love but also somehow got Kyrie Irving, too. What a talent upgrade! Imagine how good a team led by the duo of Irving and Love could be, wow. Surround them with nice role players, and the sky's the limit. I wonder what that team's record and chance of winning the title would be. Oh wait, man, imagine if you could also somehow then acquire LeBron James...we'd be exactly where the Cavs are now...underdogs against the Warriors or Spurs, and thinking about trading Love. "Talent" alone is not going to win a championship. It has to be effective together. Effectiveness > talent. To be effective enough to compete with Golden State or San Antonio in a series, you need defense, shooting, and depth. We have those three things. Our defense is second only to the Spurs. We need an upgrade there in order to be the best. Love would be an overall downgrade on defense, even with the upgrade in rebounding. Our shooting is pretty good, but we need an upgrade there. Love would not be a shooting upgrade over Crowder who'd be gone or Olynyk who'd sit behind Love. Our depth is already great, trading Crowder for Love would downgrade our depth by hollowing out the SF position. Aside from the upgrade in brandname power, i.e., "talent", how would Love actually upgrade the C's in a way that matters?
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Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2016, 09:56:22 AM »

Online Roy H.

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so it's Crowder, Lee (for salary matching) and Boston #1 for Love?  I don't get the idea behind hesitating on this offer especially since we're not giving up a fortune by any means.

Everyone on this team is a role player.  period.  Love is a starter-quality player.  talent upgrade is what we need on the whole roster and this deal offers that.  it does leave us then at SF and increases the PF logjam but make the deal and figure out roster balancing this offseason or by making another trade.

Imagine if we not only got Love but also somehow got Kyrie Irving, too. What a talent upgrade! Imagine how good a team led by the duo of Irving and Love could be, wow. Surround them with nice role players, and the sky's the limit. I wonder what that team's record and chance of winning the title would be. Oh wait, man, imagine if you could also somehow then acquire LeBron James...we'd be exactly where the Cavs are now...underdogs against the Warriors or Spurs, and thinking about trading Love. "Talent" alone is not going to win a championship. It has to be effective together. Effectiveness > talent. To be effective enough to compete with Golden State or San Antonio in a series, you need defense, shooting, and depth. We have those three things. Our defense is second only to the Spurs. We need an upgrade there in order to be the best. Love would be an overall downgrade on defense, even with the upgrade in rebounding. Our shooting is pretty good, but we need an upgrade there. Love would not be a shooting upgrade over Crowder who'd be gone or Olynyk who'd sit behind Love. Our depth is already great, trading Crowder for Love would downgrade our depth by hollowing out our SF position. Aside from the upgrade in brandname power, i.e., "talent", how would Love actually upgrade the C's in a way that matters?

Fit and chemistry alone doesn't win championships, either.  We need a talent upgrade.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2016, 10:00:16 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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I really wish Sully was having a better season so that we could trade him instead of Crowder. And this is coming from someone who isn't as down on Sully as others. But yeah, if Love is available for just Crowder and a pick, then it'd need to be done.

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2016, 11:13:10 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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so it's Crowder, Lee (for salary matching) and Boston #1 for Love?  I don't get the idea behind hesitating on this offer especially since we're not giving up a fortune by any means.

Everyone on this team is a role player.  period.  Love is a starter-quality player.  talent upgrade is what we need on the whole roster and this deal offers that.  it does leave us then at SF and increases the PF logjam but make the deal and figure out roster balancing this offseason or by making another trade.

Imagine if we not only got Love but also somehow got Kyrie Irving, too. What a talent upgrade! Imagine how good a team led by the duo of Irving and Love could be, wow. Surround them with nice role players, and the sky's the limit. I wonder what that team's record and chance of winning the title would be. Oh wait, man, imagine if you could also somehow then acquire LeBron James...we'd be exactly where the Cavs are now...underdogs against the Warriors or Spurs, and thinking about trading Love. "Talent" alone is not going to win a championship. It has to be effective together. Effectiveness > talent. To be effective enough to compete with Golden State or San Antonio in a series, you need defense, shooting, and depth. We have those three things. Our defense is second only to the Spurs. We need an upgrade there in order to be the best. Love would be an overall downgrade on defense, even with the upgrade in rebounding. Our shooting is pretty good, but we need an upgrade there. Love would not be a shooting upgrade over Crowder who'd be gone or Olynyk who'd sit behind Love. Our depth is already great, trading Crowder for Love would downgrade our depth by hollowing out our SF position. Aside from the upgrade in brandname power, i.e., "talent", how would Love actually upgrade the C's in a way that matters?

Fit and chemistry alone doesn't win championships, either.  We need a talent upgrade.

I'm not talking about airy intangibles like "fit and chemistry", though. I'm talking about defense, shooting, and depth. Trading Crowder for Love would be a downgrade for two out of those things and a lateral move for the other.

Our defense in particular would be crippled, because instead of having everything in place except a plus-defender at C to take our defense from 2nd to 1st in the league, we'd be removing a plus-defender at SF, still in need of a plus-defender at center, and now using a subpar defender at PF. Instead of becoming stronger on defense at one position, we'd become weaker on defense at two positions. That's a three-position swing downward.

We have the second best defense in the NBA. Premier defense can be a championship-level calling card in the near future if we add to it. We need a talent upgrade? Sure. But not just any kind of talent at any position. We need to at the very least maintain the defensive advantage we have over the majority of the league as we add talent and offense, and hopefully increase that advantage to the point where the offensive playing field is leveled out enough to hang with the Warriors in a series.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2016, 11:33:10 AM »

Offline chambers

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so it's Crowder, Lee (for salary matching) and Boston #1 for Love?  I don't get the idea behind hesitating on this offer especially since we're not giving up a fortune by any means.

Everyone on this team is a role player.  period.  Love is a starter-quality player.  talent upgrade is what we need on the whole roster and this deal offers that.  it does leave us then at SF and increases the PF logjam but make the deal and figure out roster balancing this offseason or by making another trade.

Imagine if we not only got Love but also somehow got Kyrie Irving, too. What a talent upgrade! Imagine how good a team led by the duo of Irving and Love could be, wow. Surround them with nice role players, and the sky's the limit. I wonder what that team's record and chance of winning the title would be. Oh wait, man, imagine if you could also somehow then acquire LeBron James...we'd be exactly where the Cavs are now...underdogs against the Warriors or Spurs, and thinking about trading Love. "Talent" alone is not going to win a championship. It has to be effective together. Effectiveness > talent. To be effective enough to compete with Golden State or San Antonio in a series, you need defense, shooting, and depth. We have those three things. Our defense is second only to the Spurs. We need an upgrade there in order to be the best. Love would be an overall downgrade on defense, even with the upgrade in rebounding. Our shooting is pretty good, but we need an upgrade there. Love would not be a shooting upgrade over Crowder who'd be gone or Olynyk who'd sit behind Love. Our depth is already great, trading Crowder for Love would downgrade our depth by hollowing out our SF position. Aside from the upgrade in brandname power, i.e., "talent", how would Love actually upgrade the C's in a way that matters?

Fit and chemistry alone doesn't win championships, either.  We need a talent upgrade.

I'm not talking about airy intangibles like "fit and chemistry", though. I'm talking about defense, shooting, and depth. Trading Crowder for Love would be a downgrade for two out of those things and a lateral move for the other.

Our defense in particular would be crippled, because instead of having everything in place except a plus-defender at C to take our defense from 2nd to 1st in the league, we'd be removing a plus-defender at SF, still in need of a plus-defender at center, and now using a subpar defender at PF. Instead of becoming stronger on defense at one position, we'd become weaker on defense at two positions. That's a three-position swing downward.

We have the second best defense in the NBA. Premier defense can be a championship-level calling card in the near future if we add to it. We need a talent upgrade? Sure. But not just any kind of talent at any position. We need to at the very least maintain the defensive advantage we have over the majority of the league as we add talent and offense, and hopefully increase that advantage to the point where the offensive playing field is leveled out enough to hang with the Warriors in a series.

Kevin Love is a plus defender.
He's capable of being a top 20, even top 10 player. He has a greater impact on the overall game than Jae Crowder. He is a better player.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 11:38:47 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Fit and chemistry alone doesn't win championships, either.  We need a talent upgrade.
Right now we're in a position to be a little picky about talent, and I don't think Love is the type of talent you want to be hanging your hat on. I mean, he's a no-D big who isn't good enough to carry a good team on his back.

edit: Kevin Love is a plus defender?! We talking about the same guy here? He's like a signpost with sneakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onT-Qh0GYHE
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 12:02:21 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 12:00:18 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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so it's Crowder, Lee (for salary matching) and Boston #1 for Love?  I don't get the idea behind hesitating on this offer especially since we're not giving up a fortune by any means.

Everyone on this team is a role player.  period.  Love is a starter-quality player.  talent upgrade is what we need on the whole roster and this deal offers that.  it does leave us then at SF and increases the PF logjam but make the deal and figure out roster balancing this offseason or by making another trade.

Imagine if we not only got Love but also somehow got Kyrie Irving, too. What a talent upgrade! Imagine how good a team led by the duo of Irving and Love could be, wow. Surround them with nice role players, and the sky's the limit. I wonder what that team's record and chance of winning the title would be. Oh wait, man, imagine if you could also somehow then acquire LeBron James...we'd be exactly where the Cavs are now...underdogs against the Warriors or Spurs, and thinking about trading Love. "Talent" alone is not going to win a championship. It has to be effective together. Effectiveness > talent. To be effective enough to compete with Golden State or San Antonio in a series, you need defense, shooting, and depth. We have those three things. Our defense is second only to the Spurs. We need an upgrade there in order to be the best. Love would be an overall downgrade on defense, even with the upgrade in rebounding. Our shooting is pretty good, but we need an upgrade there. Love would not be a shooting upgrade over Crowder who'd be gone or Olynyk who'd sit behind Love. Our depth is already great, trading Crowder for Love would downgrade our depth by hollowing out our SF position. Aside from the upgrade in brandname power, i.e., "talent", how would Love actually upgrade the C's in a way that matters?

Fit and chemistry alone doesn't win championships, either.  We need a talent upgrade.

I'm not talking about airy intangibles like "fit and chemistry", though. I'm talking about defense, shooting, and depth. Trading Crowder for Love would be a downgrade for two out of those things and a lateral move for the other.

Our defense in particular would be crippled, because instead of having everything in place except a plus-defender at C to take our defense from 2nd to 1st in the league, we'd be removing a plus-defender at SF, still in need of a plus-defender at center, and now using a subpar defender at PF. Instead of becoming stronger on defense at one position, we'd become weaker on defense at two positions. That's a three-position swing downward.

We have the second best defense in the NBA. Premier defense can be a championship-level calling card in the near future if we add to it. We need a talent upgrade? Sure. But not just any kind of talent at any position. We need to at the very least maintain the defensive advantage we have over the majority of the league as we add talent and offense, and hopefully increase that advantage to the point where the offensive playing field is leveled out enough to hang with the Warriors in a series.

Kevin Love is a plus defender.
He's capable of being a top 20, even top 10 player. He has a greater impact on the overall game than Jae Crowder. He is a better player.

Love is a plus-rebounder. Otherwise, he's a clear liability. Cleveland does everything possible to hide him, and teams still take advantage of him.

He was capable of being a top 10-20 player, on a crappy Wolves team, a couple years ago, according to box scores alone. Perhaps something similar could have been said about KG once upon a time...except KG was also the best defensive player in the world. Imagine if KG had only been a mediocre defender, or worse. Take the 03-04 MVP version of KG, even. Same points, same rebounds, same assists. But a liability on defense. Think we sniff the Finals in 2008 with that kind of KG, let alone win the championship? Because that's basically what Love is.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

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Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 12:03:39 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I lean towards no. I worry about his health. I worry about his somewhat soft demeanor. I worry about his need for volume to succeed. I worry about the need to 'build a team around him' to cover up for his defensive liabilities. I worry about his player option in 2019/20.

I just don't like him that much as a trade target. I'd rather trade for a Gallinari or a Hayward and keep Crowder and that pick for now.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 12:13:07 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Depends on the details of the contract ,  would Love sign a long term deal or get frustrated in Boston  and run off to the Lakers .

Not the 2016 nets first? .....a non Nets first

Crowder is loyal and good value .  He has found a home . Love will NOT be as loyal

Not sure Love even wants to,be in Boston any more than Cleveland.

Would Love really want to be in Boston , stick it out till a dominate team is compiled.  Maybe if Durrant was coming or such .

I m scared we d lose Love, our pick and Crowder in the end .....wind up going backwards. Basically what Cavs did .....throw away Wiggins ......then watch Love leave.

I would not trade for Love.   I d wait till he wanted to leave without having to,give up a lot .  You want him to WANT to,be a Celtic , not force him .

I d wait the season out see....what goes down in Cleveland ....a better deal could be had .....besides Love wants HIS shot at a title he missed last year . 

LeBron has out clause every summer , the Cavs are on thin ice , I d wait for the blow up.

He signed with Cavs for 5 years. Maybe he has an option but isn't there a rule with 5 years that you can only have an opt out after 3 seasons?
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 12:41:12 PM »

Offline GC003332

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Let's not get it twisted as Westbrook would say, Crowder is in no way the backbone of this Celtics team, Stevens is the backbone of this team, building up a top 5 defensive unit in which Crowder is just one part of.
If you can get a all star, Olympian level player for Crowder and a pick projected in the 20's at this point in time you do it, it is a clear Talent upgrade.
The Cavs would laugh at that deal if it was offered to them.They can do much much better than this if they decided to move him.
I personally am not a fan of Love , I like guys who are more engaged when the ball is not in their hands.

Re: Would you trade Crowder and 1 first for Love.
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 12:44:40 PM »

Offline jbpats

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You would have to, I believe Crowder is playing above his potential and our pick will likely be in the 18-24 range.
Love is a proven all star and in a system that isn't working for him.. many superstars have rotted away next to Lebron.
More importantly who is going to attract other star free agents to come? Love or Crowder? If you think the answer is Crowder you are sadly mistaken.
Don't get me wrong, I love the way Crowder is playing, but if we have a chance to get a star/superstar in return for him then we have to go for it.