the emergence of KO

[BitterJim]

This is why I feel DA isn't kicking himself about Giannis even if he turns out to be great. Look at how many teams passed on Jimmy Butler or Dray Green, it happens and it's a crap shoot.

Agree 100%.

It's like when you are in a poker game, and you have four spades, and you know the other guy has a straight. You have very little committed so far, and the other guy pushes you all in.

You fold the hand, knowing it's too much of a risk to throw everything away on.

The cards come out, and there is a spade - so in hindsight you now know if you had have called, you would have won huge.

Do you stress over it? 

No, because at the time there was no way you could have known that spade would come out, and it wasn't worth the risk.  You made the right call given the circumstances, and you live with it knowing that if you were put in that same position in the next game you would make the exact same call.

Every draft there are a couple of fluke guys who beat the odds and far outperform their draft position. You live with it, and say good luck to the team who too the gamble. 

As is stands right now both players are in their third seasons. 

Giannis is averaging 16.6 / 7.6 / 2.9 Per 36 and putting up average advanced stats on an under-achieving 13th seed team.

Olynyk is averaging 17.7 / 7.7 / 2.8 Per 36 and putting up amazing advanced stats on an over-achieving 5th seeded team.

We still have no evidence to suggest that Giannis is actually the better player.  He might look better on paper, in terms of his outright stats and measurements, athletic ability, etc.  But it might not be a total coincidence that the guy with the great advanced stats (KO) happens to also be the guy who is on the winning/overachieving team.

That poker analogy is spot on. TP.

[crimson_stallion]

One thing I know for sure - if we get lucky and Olynyk takes a similar jump next year to what Crowder did this year (which isn't out of the real of possibility) then we could have one very, very good team for a very, very long time. 

[Ed Hollison]

As is stands right now both players are in their third seasons. 

Giannis is averaging 16.6 / 7.6 / 2.9 Per 36 and putting up average advanced stats on an under-achieving 13th seed team.

Olynyk is averaging 17.7 / 7.7 / 2.8 Per 36 and putting up amazing advanced stats on an over-achieving 5th seeded team.

We still have no evidence to suggest that Giannis is actually the better player.  He might look better on paper, in terms of his outright stats and measurements, athletic ability, etc.  But it might not be a total coincidence that the guy with the great advanced stats (KO) happens to also be the guy who is on the winning/overachieving team.

You have to take into consideration that Giannis is playing a lot more minutes. So yes, their per-36 minute totals are about the same, but there's no guarantee that Olynyk could keep up this pace if Stevens actually played him that much.

With that said: I'm excited about what Olynyk could be. Just think back to that Heat/Spurs finals series from a couple of years ago, and how valuable Boris Diaw was as a big who could handle/pass/shoot from the perimeter but still rebound and bang down low. In the new NBA, having a player like that is enormous.

All Kelly needs to do over the remainder of his career is 1) improve his offense around the basket and in the post, and 2) defend the post and rebound better. No guarantee he will accomplish those things, but he's got a chance to be a really good player in the league. He is already a great perimeter shooter and smart team defender, which in and of itself is useful.

[PhoSita]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

[SHAQATTACK]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

I'm on board here with your thoughts .......I m stumped why KO ....now that he is broke ......we need to RIDE the bee yesus  out of this pony  He should be playing till he drops ......like Giannis. 

I'd be playing Smart and KO all the minutes they could stand .

Let stupid Lee go and ET can give him a ride .

I d play KO huge minutes with Sully and Zeller spelling him .

[BDeCosta26]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

Idk, Giannis has been playing big minutes for a while, he's certainly improved but people act as if he's a sure fire future superstar. I'm just not do sure about that. If he could very well max out at the "borderline all-star" level. Which I think KO could reach too.

Olynyk has shown such a wide array of both inside moves and outside shooting, on top of his ability to drive/dish going to the basket while playing a serviceable presence in the paint on D at 7 feet tall is amazing. How many 7 footers in this league can do what KO can? For a guy who only grew to 7 feet in college after growing up a PG, I see no evidence that KO is close to peaking. Heck, he could consistently put up 20 PPG with 8 reb and 3 assists if his consistency continues to develop and he gets bigger minutes. When you add in what Olynyk does for the offense as a whole in terms of spacing, creating mis-matches, etc. I think it's certainly possible KO becomes as good of a player as Giannis.

All I'm saying is, we shouldn't act like DA missed so badly taking KO over Giannis outside of the top 10. Olynyk is a very good player who's clearly improving and has the potential to be really, really good. He's pretty dang good right now. He has the potential to be a very important part of the next Celtic contender, and his value is pretty high when it comes to trades right now much like Crowder.

[Tr1boy]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

I bet whatever progress Giannis makes, he won't be as good of shooter as KO

For a guy as athletic as him, he has like zero lift on his jump shot . poor mid range game.  It's like jeff green, shoot the spot up 3 or drive in for an adventure

[Celtics18]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

Sneaky.  You make the case for Giannis being the better player with a brighter future (not that I necessarily disagree), and then tell us it's time to move on from the comparisons.

I don't blame you for wanting to ensure you get the last word.

[PhoSita]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

Sneaky.  You make the case for Giannis being the better player with a brighter future (not that I necessarily disagree), and then tell us it's time to move on from the comparisons.

I don't blame you for wanting to ensure you get the last word.

Sigh.

I don't think there's really a debate, is my point.

I think we'll all be happier if we stop trying to compare Kelly to a clearly superior prospect.  Would anybody sincerely go back in time and select Kelly again over Giannis?  I'm very skeptical about that.

Regardless, we can't go back in time, so what's the use in continuing to bring this comparison up again and again?

[PhoSita]

Idk, Giannis has been playing big minutes for a while, he's certainly improved but people act as if he's a sure fire future superstar. I'm just not do sure about that. If he could very well max out at the "borderline all-star" level. Which I think KO could reach too.

I agree; I don't think Giannis is a sure thing to reach 20+ ppg, All-Star level production.  Still, even if his jumper never really comes along and he stays around the 15-7 level he's at now, while improving as a team defender and passer, he'll be a fantastic piece.  Especially if he continues to add muscle and can defend 3 or 4 positions.  All of that seems very plausible to me.

Kelly, I'm just not sure he's ever going to be a 30+ mpg type guy.  He does lots of little things to help a team win, and having a player who can man both big positions, play decent team defense, and nail outside shots at a high clip, is very valuable.  Kelly will be in this league a long time.  Just look at how long Matt Bonner has stuck around.

All I'm saying is, we shouldn't act like DA missed so badly taking KO over Giannis outside of the top 10. Olynyk is a very good player who's clearly improving and has the potential to be really, really good. He's pretty dang good right now. He has the potential to be a very important part of the next Celtic contender, and his value is pretty high when it comes to trades right now much like Crowder.

I agree with this basic idea, too.  Kelly was a good pick at #13.  Sure, we can find at least one example of a player taken after him we might be better off having, but regardless, Danny did well to take Kelly where he did.  Kelly has helped this team and will continue to do so.  He's a nice asset, and there is still a chance he takes another step to become an every day starter.

If we focus on how good Kelly is, and think about his value given where he was taken in the draft, not in comparison to a guy taken after him that half the teams in the league passed on because there was very little reliable scouting material on him leading up to the draft, I think we'll all be happier.

[Celtics18]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

Sneaky.  You make the case for Giannis being the better player with a brighter future (not that I necessarily disagree), and then tell us it's time to move on from the comparisons.

I don't blame you for wanting to ensure you get the last word.

Sigh.

I don't think there's really a debate, is my point.

I think we'll all be happier if we stop trying to compare Kelly to a clearly superior prospect.  Would anybody sincerely go back in time and select Kelly again over Giannis?  I'm very skeptical about that.

Regardless, we can't go back in time, so what's the use in continuing to bring this comparison up again and again?

I happen to be in the camp that thinks Giannis is an exceptional prospect with legit superstar potential.  That kid is so unbelievably talented.  And he can play pretty much all five positions at an NBA level.

Unfortunately, though, that jump shot may never get fixed.  If it doesn't he'll most likely max out as a really good role player.

Kelly, on the other hand, I just don't know . . . He's been scaring me lately.
I know I should tone back my excitement. I really should.

[PhoSita]

Kelly, on the other hand, I just don't know . . . He's been scaring me lately.
I know I should tone back my excitement. I really should.

Kelly has looked good lately, but Brad continues to seem content to let Kelly stay right around 20 minutes a game or less. 

I don't really understand, but I'm guessing there's a reason for that.

[SHAQATTACK]

Please no Gallinari .

Keep ball n KO.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I don't think CBS playing KO 20 minutes per means much of anything on this team. We have a lot of players at the 4/5 that deserve minutes... many of the guys mask how they feel about minute allocation by talking about the rotation. He darn near had to be forced to stop playing Lee because of all the complaints. Giannis wouldnt be playing the minutes he is here either.

[Surferdad]

Even when Kelly has played really well, he doesn't end up playing that many minutes.  There's probably a reason for that, right?

Meanwhile Giannis has averaged better than 30 mpg the last two seasons.  Last year, his team was better than the Celtics.

Giannis is also 21 years old, while Kelly is 24.  There's good reason to believe Giannis has another step or two to take in his development, while Kelly is getting pretty close to his peak.


The best thing we can do as fans is move on from this Kelly vs Giannis comparison and simply enjoy Kelly for the player he is.

Yeah I thought that too, before this season. He has taken a step forward and there is reason to believe his stock will continue to rise as his confidence goes up.