Author Topic: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor  (Read 7461 times)

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Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2016, 02:20:04 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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I am not a Patriots fan. I am a Giants fan. After reading this I want to put some input in. Brady is certainly lucky to have won some super bowls he shouldn't have, but at the same time he got unlucky to lose 2 super bowls he shouldn't have. It sort of balances itself out no? Brady is no doubt ONE of the best QB's to ever play. Not sure I am ready to anoint him the best quite yet.

Point 2: Belichick was really bad against the Broncos. I thought he was uncharacteristically bad. Again, I am not sure I am willing to call Belichick the best coach ever.

Point 3: Ultimate competitor is an interesting phrase. Is Elgin Baylor the ultimate competitor for the NBA? He made it to 8 NBA Finals, but lost each one. What about LeBron James? He took some bad Cavs team deep into the playoffs, AND currently has a streak of 5 straight trips to the Finals, and a legit chance to make it 6. What defines the ultimate competitor???
How about most super bowl appearances. Most super bowl wins. Most conference championship appearances. Player, who is a QB, who gives up his body to win another. No quit. Greatest will to win in the game.

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2016, 02:21:32 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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Point 2: Belichick was really bad against the Broncos. I thought he was uncharacteristically bad.
Believe it or not, he was worse in Game 16 of the season against the Dolphins, when he trotted out a game plan that didn't have a snowball's chance in hell to work. It almost looked like he wanted to lose that game.

The AFC championship game would have looked a lot different without the altitude and the crowd noise.

I agree. I watched that game. He was bad there too. Could also talk about the game against the Jets at the end of the year and the OT debacle

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2016, 02:23:54 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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Point 2: Belichick was really bad against the Broncos. I thought he was uncharacteristically bad.
Believe it or not, he was worse in Game 16 of the season against the Dolphins, when he trotted out a game plan that didn't have a snowball's chance in hell to work. It almost looked like he wanted to lose that game.

The AFC championship game would have looked a lot different without the altitude and the crowd noise.

I agree. I watched that game. He was bad there too. Could also talk about the game against the Jets at the end of the year and the OT debacle
You can say that more often about every other coach in the league.

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2016, 02:29:05 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Point 2: Belichick was really bad against the Broncos. I thought he was uncharacteristically bad.
Believe it or not, he was worse in Game 16 of the season against the Dolphins, when he trotted out a game plan that didn't have a snowball's chance in hell to work. It almost looked like he wanted to lose that game.

The AFC championship game would have looked a lot different without the altitude and the crowd noise.

I agree. I watched that game. He was bad there too. Could also talk about the game against the Jets at the end of the year and the OT debacle

Yeah, I'll never understand what the heck was going on with that Miami game. 


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Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2016, 02:31:47 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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How about most super bowl appearances. Most super bowl wins. Most conference championship appearances. Player, who is a QB, who gives up his body to win another. No quit. Greatest will to win in the game.

He has one more appearance than Elway, he's tied in wins with Bradshaw and Montana, and the last part of your requirement is subjective. Are you insinuating that Brady is the only QB to do so, or that he's done it most often and is the 'best' at doing it?

(Not trying to be dismissive, just hoping to have a good conversation.)

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2016, 02:31:48 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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You can say that more often about every other coach in the league.
Sure, but the expectations are higher here. You won't get a free pass just because you're better on the balance than the Chuck Paganos of the world.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2016, 02:33:31 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Yeah, I'll never understand what the heck was going on with that Miami game.
I'm guessing he expected them to fold, so he pulled a ton of crazy stuff that will never see the life of day again, but will just have to be on the scouting report for the playoffs. Well, they didn't fold, so we paid the price.
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Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2016, 02:40:58 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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How about most super bowl appearances. Most super bowl wins. Most conference championship appearances. Player, who is a QB, who gives up his body to win another. No quit. Greatest will to win in the game.

He has one more appearance than Elway, he's tied in wins with Bradshaw and Montana, and the last part of your requirement is subjective. Are you insinuating that Brady is the only QB to do so, or that he's done it most often and is the 'best' at doing it?

(Not trying to be dismissive, just hoping to have a good conversation.)
And how many super bowl wins does Elway have or conference championship appearances? How many super bowl appearances does Bradshaw and Montana have? I guess if you combine these guys they are better but not close when comparing individually.

And yes. He's done it the most often.

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2016, 02:51:11 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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Bradshaw and Montana are both 4-0 in Super Bowls and Elway is 3-2.

Elway - 6 AFC Championship games
Montana - 7 AFC Championship games
Bradshaw - 6 AFC Championship games



I'm interested in how you gauge other player effort levels.

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2016, 02:51:41 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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How about most super bowl appearances. Most super bowl wins. Most conference championship appearances. Player, who is a QB, who gives up his body to win another. No quit. Greatest will to win in the game.

He has one more appearance than Elway, he's tied in wins with Bradshaw and Montana, and the last part of your requirement is subjective. Are you insinuating that Brady is the only QB to do so, or that he's done it most often and is the 'best' at doing it?

(Not trying to be dismissive, just hoping to have a good conversation.)
And how many super bowl wins does Elway have or conference championship appearances? How many super bowl appearances does Bradshaw and Montana have? I guess if you combine these guys they are better but not close when comparing individually.

And yes. He's done it the most often.

It's not cut & dried.  Especially in regards to Brady v. Montana.   

I think with those two, you can't really go wrong if you go with either.  I don't think the evidence overwhelmingly points to one or another....yet.   Brady is still active so can certainly still do things to point things more in his direction.

Bradshaw doesn't belong in the conversation, IMO.  Elway was a very good QB.  Top 5 for me.  But I think he's a notch below Montana/Brady. 


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Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2016, 02:57:35 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Bradshaw and Montana are both 4-0 in Super Bowls and Elway is 3-2.

Elway - 6 AFC Championship games
Montana - 7 AFC Championship games
Bradshaw - 6 AFC Championship games



I'm interested in how you gauge other player effort levels.

Elway was 2-3 in Super Bowls, not 3-2.

As for Montana and Bradshaw, it's great that they have a perfect record, but I think it is more impressive to make it to more Super Bowls (and win the same amount) than to not make it at all. There were plenty of years all of those guys didn't really go anywhere. Going deep in the playoffs every year is a feat in and of itself.

But, yeah, that Miami game killed us - what a joke.

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2016, 03:17:14 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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Bradshaw and Montana are both 4-0 in Super Bowls and Elway is 3-2.

Elway - 6 AFC Championship games
Montana - 7 AFC Championship games
Bradshaw - 6 AFC Championship games



I'm interested in how you gauge other player effort levels.
Brady 10 AFC championship games

Re: Tom Brady is the ultimate competitor
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2016, 04:41:46 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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After watching how Cam Newton quit and wanted nothing to do with that Denver defense and trying to make a comeback, I feel an even greater appreciation for Tom Brady.

My lasting impression of the super bowl is that Cam Newton was all talk. He's not the competitor that Tom Brady is. Brady put his body on the line time after time and made plays down the stretch against that Denver defense. Came up short but he never quit.

While giving proper respect to the Denver defense and Cam Newton's obvious talent, and disclaiming that I didn't see any other Carolina games this season, I was really disappointed in Newton's Super Bowl performance.

All year long I kept hearing about how dynamic he was, such a great runner/play-action QB, but we barely saw any of that in the SB. He had a good per-rush average of 7.5 yards, but he rushed only 6 times, and he didn't seem particularly good at making defenders miss. I realize that much of this had to do with Denver's D—particularly with the fact that they usually had a defender shadowing Newton. I also think the Carolina offensive coordinator did a bad job of mixing things up to try to find something that worked (way too many straight handoffs to Stewart and Tolbert). Still, I didn't see a lot from Newton that made me think, "Yeah, he deserved the MVP."
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