Author Topic: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.  (Read 7792 times)

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Offline BballTim

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Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Offline BballTim

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Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

I assumed he was speaking hyperbolically.

  More obtuse than hyperbolic.

  Seriously, how often do you get to drag out the geometry humor?

Offline eja117

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Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Oh I am sorry. I was just checking out these pics of the best players that ever played while trying to get ready for the Pats to play in their fifth AFC Championship game in a row. 

Kinda shocked you haven't invoked Dan Marino or Otto Graham yet.









Offline Dino Pitino

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Don't be shy, football connoisseurs, lol.
Whose all-time single-season team is better?
Giants? Dolphins? 49ers? Steelers?
Cowboys? Packers? Colts? Raiders?

Some franchises will have better defenses, and maybe some teams will have offenses as good, but I doubt any team would be better overall.

  You're talking about including players who were only on a team for a year or two? I'll try the Raiders. The "weak spots" are on offense are qb (two of whom were league MVPs) and tight end (Dave Casper, Ray Chester and Todd Christensen). The offensive line's top notch. The best running backs (Marcus Allen, Eric Dickerson and Bo Jackson) are all-time greats, with Van Eeghan and Reese at fullback. The wide receivers would include (off the top of my head) Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Tim Brown and Fred Belitnikoff.

  Defensive backs include Charles and Rod Woodson, Ronny Lott, Willie Brown, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes, Eric Allen and Terry McDaniel. Defensive linemen include Howie Long, Warren Sapp, Seymour, McGlockton, Matuzak, Alzado, Maryland and Laroi Glover. Linebackers would include Ted Hendricks, Rod Martin, Matt Millen and Hacksaw Reynolds. Don't forget two of the best punters in league history, Guy and Lechler. Undoubtedly I missed a few players, especially the 1-2 year types, but a pretty solid team all around.

  Edit: Gotta throw in Kahlil Mack, a second year player who's the first player ever to make all pro at two positions (LB and DE) in the same season.

Raiders got an awesome squad.
[dang]. That might be better.
Gotta be the best, if so.

I'll dive deeper later and put them up head to head to see.
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Offline eja117

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I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

Offline BballTim

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Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Oh I am sorry. I was just checking out these pics of the best players that ever played while trying to get ready for the Pats to play in their fifth AFC Championship game in a row. 


  Sorry, but did you say 5 conference championships in a row? Wow, that's a lot like the Celts in the 60s, only slightly more impressive. And I'd assume, since the team is so much better than the rest of the league, that they won the title in each of those years?

Offline BballTim

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I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

  Right, so you can name more players that you've seen on tv but never saw play. Congrats.

  And what's the Gronk/LT deal? Is the assumption that Gronk's capable of blocking one of the best pass rushers in the history of the league, or is the assumption that LT spent most of his time covering tight ends? Don't they have youtube where you come from?

Offline eja117

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I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

  Right, so you can name more players that you've seen on tv but never saw play. Congrats.

  And what's the Gronk/LT deal? Is the assumption that Gronk's capable of blocking one of the best pass rushers in the history of the league, or is the assumption that LT spent most of his time covering tight ends? Don't they have youtube where you come from?
No. The deal is that because of athletes like Gronk the ball gets out quicker giving significantly less time for the LTs to get sacks, meaning Gronk runs by him and says "beep beep" while LT is like "which way did he go" or did you miss the evolution of the game?

Offline eja117

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Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Oh I am sorry. I was just checking out these pics of the best players that ever played while trying to get ready for the Pats to play in their fifth AFC Championship game in a row. 


  Sorry, but did you say 5 conference championships in a row? Wow, that's a lot like the Celts in the 60s, only slightly more impressive. And I'd assume, since the team is so much better than the rest of the league, that they won the title in each of those years?
They also won 13 of the last 15 division titles. The last time they didn't win was 2008 when Brady had his injury.  But no. They only have 6 Super Bowl appearances with 4 wins in that time.

How many Super Bowl appearances did Troy Aikman have or Joe Montana? So wait a second....if Brady gets to another Super Bowl....he'll have as many Super Bowl appearances as....Joe Montana and Troy combined. Because he's that much better.


Offline BballTim

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I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

  Right, so you can name more players that you've seen on tv but never saw play. Congrats.

  And what's the Gronk/LT deal? Is the assumption that Gronk's capable of blocking one of the best pass rushers in the history of the league, or is the assumption that LT spent most of his time covering tight ends? Don't they have youtube where you come from?
No. The deal is that because of athletes like Gronk the ball gets out quicker giving significantly less time for the LTs to get sacks, meaning Gronk runs by him and says "beep beep" while LT is like "which way did he go" or did you miss the evolution of the game?

  Yes, because as far as you know sacks rarely happen in the nfl. They probably had about 20-30 a game back in the 80s when people watched LT running around in a leather helmet with no facemask on their  black and white tvs. Or something else was happening, you don't know what, but players must be better now because your favorite team's been one of the dominant teams in the history of any sport, bringing home one title in the last 10 years.

  Nowadays, of course, you never see sacks, because of Gronk! In fact, Brady's hardly ever been sacked in his life, only 400+ times, which *clearly* proves that the best pass rushers in the history of the league would never be able to lay a hand on him. Because the game's modern now, and because Gronk!!!

Offline eja117

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Well also Edelman.

Offline BballTim

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Well also Edelman.

  Another sure-fire Hall of Famer no doubt.

  I look forward to your comments about how Michael Jordan wouldn't be able to keep up with the current Celts because the game's evolved quite a bit since he joined the league (back in the LT era), or that he'd never be able to guard modern players because they don't allow horse collar tackles anymore.

Offline eja117

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A different and far less complicated sport. I do think the Bulls would not have fared half as well in the 80s against the Magic Lakers, Bird Celts, and possibly Bad Boy Pistons.  (Yes I know he played them).

Also would have liked to see prime Jordan Bulls vs prime Kobe/Shaq Lakers and prime Duncan/Manu/Parker Spurs.

Very different topic.

Offline Dino Pitino

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Don't be shy, football connoisseurs, lol.
Whose all-time single-season team is better?
Giants? Dolphins? 49ers? Steelers?
Cowboys? Packers? Colts? Raiders?

Some franchises will have better defenses, and maybe some teams will have offenses as good, but I doubt any team would be better overall.

  You're talking about including players who were only on a team for a year or two? I'll try the Raiders. The "weak spots" are on offense are qb (two of whom were league MVPs) and tight end (Dave Casper, Ray Chester and Todd Christensen). The offensive line's top notch. The best running backs (Marcus Allen, Eric Dickerson and Bo Jackson) are all-time greats, with Van Eeghan and Reese at fullback. The wide receivers would include (off the top of my head) Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Tim Brown and Fred Belitnikoff.

  Defensive backs include Charles and Rod Woodson, Ronny Lott, Willie Brown, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes, Eric Allen and Terry McDaniel. Defensive linemen include Howie Long, Warren Sapp, Seymour, McGlockton, Matuzak, Alzado, Maryland and Laroi Glover. Linebackers would include Ted Hendricks, Rod Martin, Matt Millen and Hacksaw Reynolds. Don't forget two of the best punters in league history, Guy and Lechler. Undoubtedly I missed a few players, especially the 1-2 year types, but a pretty solid team all around.

  Edit: Gotta throw in Kahlil Mack, a second year player who's the first player ever to make all pro at two positions (LB and DE) in the same season.

Raiders got an awesome squad.
[dang]. That might be better.
Gotta be the best, if so.

I'll dive deeper later and put them up head to head to see.

I do have to point out that giving Dickerson to the Raiders is kind of like giving Seau to the Patriots. Never had a good enough year to qualify as an all-time version of himself. And it's almost the same situation with Rice, where he was merely very good that one year with the Raiders, a qualitatively different kind of Jerry Rice. Whereas you'll see that the Patriots all-time single-season cameos are from years that are just about as great or even better than that player's best years elsewhere. For instance, the '07 Moss is significantly better than the Moss that the Raiders get. Also, the Raiders' peak version of Mike Haynes might be a little better than the Patriots' rookie Mike Haynes, but not by much. Same for Martin on the Jets versus the early Patriots years, same for Buoniconti, Dillon, Revis.

Still, to have both Allen and Jackson is a little more impressive than Martin and Dillon, even more so with that top 5 offensive line, plus all the receiving options, where are more or less as great as the Patriots' receivers. And then that defense, greatness everywhere, the incredible defensive backs. I'm still weighing the comparison.
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Offline GreenFaith1819

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Well, I suppose that Peyton is NOW 3-1 vs Brady in the Post-Season, right?
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