What would it take to get Nerlens Noel?

[LarBrd33]

You can definitely see how a PG makes a difference on a guy like Noel.  He's quick and has hops.  His offensive game is very limited.  Just watch the highlights from his 20 point game the other night to see what I'm talking about:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qakNknbU8o

There's a reason why Ish Smith's arrival last year resulted in Noel's offensive stats spiking.   It's the same reason they have spiked over the last 3 games.   It definitely reminds me of when Tyson Chandler's stats spiked playing with CHris Paul (alley-oop party)... but we're talking about Ish freakin Smith here... he's barely a starting PG.    Gives you an idea of how bad the surrounding talent on Philly has been that it takes Ish Smith to unlock some potential in Noel. 

So what are we really talking about here?  Noel's floor is rich man's Tyson Chandler?  I'd take it.  He might actually already be a better defender than Tyson... We haven't seen NOel in a real NBA system yet. 

Here's his highlights in the game prior to last against Utah when he had 18 points, 5 blocks and 2 steals.  You still see Ish Smith setting him up for basically all of his points, but flashes of his potential are there... you actually see him hit a couple mid-range shots.  You can also see how Noel roaming the paint without Okafor results in defensive plays:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPyKuCKw88

From watching both of those videos you also get a sense of why Noel is struggling with Okafor clogging the middle.   Okafor takes up a lot of space and when they feed him inside he's an old-school post-up player... Noel's success seems to be mostly coming on fast breaks and lots of movement.   Defensively, he needs to be roaming around the paint.   It's really clear those two can't play together.   I'd love to see Zach Lowe or someone do a breakdown video of why Noel has been struggling this year.   So much of it has to do with system and players surrounding him.

So what's Smart's floor?  Rich man's Tony Allen? 

I agree both of those guys have a lot of potential.  I agree both of those guys have a lot of flaws.  I'd rather have Noel.   The common argument is that "the league is going small!... you don't need a center!"... it's not true at all, though.   As the league goes smaller it means you need scoring from your small guys.  Smart (so far) hasn't displayed scoring competence.  Also, as the league goes smaller it just heightens the need for a superior interior defender.   SO many of these little guys are able to get into the paint whereas in the past the rules made it a lot more difficult.   You need someone at the rim challenging shots.   Guys like Noel will always have value in this league.  What you might not need these days is a classic post-up player like Okafor.  I don't blame Philly for not biting on a trade yet... they are sitting on a really difficult decision.  They might actually be better off keeping Noel and selling okafor for a fool's ransom.

It would be great if Noel's floor was a rich-man's version of a player that won DPOY, but that's a lot more likely to be his ceiling than his floor

I guess we have to see how Nerlens looks in 8 years... cuz Chandler didn't win DPOY until he was 29 years old in his 11th NBA season.  He wasn't much of anything his first three years.

Nerlens' floor is rich man's Tyson Chandler.   

Actually kind of interesting... I was curious how much of a difference Ish Smith actually made in Nerlens.   

They haven't started a ton of games together yet.  It's a small sample size.  In total, there have been 13 games in which Noel has started next to Ish Smith and played at least 25 minutes.  His stats during those 13 games:  15.7 points, 11.1 rebounds, 2 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.2 blocks with 56% shooting in 33mpg.

Pretty interesting.  Another start next to Ish Smith tonight:  15 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks with 55% shooting in 28mpg... almost exactly what he averaged in his previous 13 games with Ish.

I think the buy low window is closing a bit.   You got naysayers like the folks on this forum peddling the idea that Noel has "regressed" and is a future benchwarmer based on his struggles next to Okafor.   If any semblance of that backwards logic actually impacted Noel's trade value, you have to imagine that the last 4 games have given proof to the idea that Noel will be fine as long as he is paired with some NBA talent and isn't playing out of position.   If anyone didn't believe that Noel's struggles were due to the Okafor pairing, it's gonna be real hard for them to stay on that Island.

[Irish Stew]

The only possible way to get Noel is to do this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zn6a9bo, which requires giving up this year's Brooklyn pick and the Celtics or Mavs pick, plus a future Brooklyn pick.  Also, the Sixers would get back pick #31. 

Rozier, Augustin
Hunter, Roberson
Crowder, Durant, Roberson, Jerebko
Durant, KO, Mickey, Jerebko, Landry, Lee
Noel, Amir, KO

I don't like it.  Nope.  Getting Noel just isn't possible without ruining the team and giving up the farm.

Did I really see you propose a trade in which we wind up with both Durant and Noel but you decided that you were against it? Why? Is this because you don't think that we can sign Durant? If we do sign him, we would still have cap space to bring in complementary players similar to the ones we would be sending out, just not as many.

[Eddie20]

You can definitely see how a PG makes a difference on a guy like Noel.  He's quick and has hops.  His offensive game is very limited.  Just watch the highlights from his 20 point game the other night to see what I'm talking about:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qakNknbU8o

There's a reason why Ish Smith's arrival last year resulted in Noel's offensive stats spiking.   It's the same reason they have spiked over the last 3 games.   It definitely reminds me of when Tyson Chandler's stats spiked playing with CHris Paul (alley-oop party)... but we're talking about Ish freakin Smith here... he's barely a starting PG.    Gives you an idea of how bad the surrounding talent on Philly has been that it takes Ish Smith to unlock some potential in Noel. 

So what are we really talking about here?  Noel's floor is rich man's Tyson Chandler?  I'd take it.  He might actually already be a better defender than Tyson... We haven't seen NOel in a real NBA system yet. 

Here's his highlights in the game prior to last against Utah when he had 18 points, 5 blocks and 2 steals.  You still see Ish Smith setting him up for basically all of his points, but flashes of his potential are there... you actually see him hit a couple mid-range shots.  You can also see how Noel roaming the paint without Okafor results in defensive plays:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPyKuCKw88

From watching both of those videos you also get a sense of why Noel is struggling with Okafor clogging the middle.   Okafor takes up a lot of space and when they feed him inside he's an old-school post-up player... Noel's success seems to be mostly coming on fast breaks and lots of movement.   Defensively, he needs to be roaming around the paint.   It's really clear those two can't play together.   I'd love to see Zach Lowe or someone do a breakdown video of why Noel has been struggling this year.   So much of it has to do with system and players surrounding him.

So what's Smart's floor?  Rich man's Tony Allen? 

I agree both of those guys have a lot of potential.  I agree both of those guys have a lot of flaws.  I'd rather have Noel.   The common argument is that "the league is going small!... you don't need a center!"... it's not true at all, though.   As the league goes smaller it means you need scoring from your small guys.  Smart (so far) hasn't displayed scoring competence.  Also, as the league goes smaller it just heightens the need for a superior interior defender.   SO many of these little guys are able to get into the paint whereas in the past the rules made it a lot more difficult.   You need someone at the rim challenging shots.   Guys like Noel will always have value in this league.  What you might not need these days is a classic post-up player like Okafor.  I don't blame Philly for not biting on a trade yet... they are sitting on a really difficult decision.  They might actually be better off keeping Noel and selling okafor for a fool's ransom.

It would be great if Noel's floor was a rich-man's version of a player that won DPOY, but that's a lot more likely to be his ceiling than his floor

I guess we have to see how Nerlens looks in 8 years... cuz Chandler didn't win DPOY until he was 29 years old in his 11th NBA season.  He wasn't much of anything his first three years.

Nerlens' floor is rich man's Tyson Chandler.   

Actually kind of interesting... I was curious how much of a difference Ish Smith actually made in Nerlens.   

They haven't started a ton of games together yet.  It's a small sample size.  In total, there have been 13 games in which Noel has started next to Ish Smith and played at least 25 minutes.  His stats during those 13 games:  15.7 points, 11.1 rebounds, 2 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.2 blocks with 56% shooting in 33mpg.

Pretty interesting.  Another start next to Ish Smith tonight:  15 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks with 55% shooting in 28mpg... almost exactly what he averaged in his previous 13 games with Ish.

I think the buy low window is closing a bit.   You got naysayers like the folks on this forum peddling the idea that Noel has "regressed" and is a future benchwarmer based on his struggles next to Okafor.   If any semblance of that backwards logic actually impacted Noel's trade value, you have to imagine that the last 4 games have given proof to the idea that Noel will be fine as long as he is paired with some NBA talent and isn't playing out of position.   If anyone didn't believe that Noel's struggles were due to the Okafor pairing, it's gonna be real hard for them to stay on that Island.

opponents

Suns
Jazz (minus Gobert & Favors)
Lakers
Kings

So you have 3 of the worst defenses/higher paced teams in the league and in Utah a team that was missing 2 of their top 3 players. Let's see what happens when they play tougher D's. Perspective.

[ssspence]

You can definitely see how a PG makes a difference on a guy like Noel.  He's quick and has hops.  His offensive game is very limited.  Just watch the highlights from his 20 point game the other night to see what I'm talking about:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qakNknbU8o

There's a reason why Ish Smith's arrival last year resulted in Noel's offensive stats spiking.   It's the same reason they have spiked over the last 3 games.   It definitely reminds me of when Tyson Chandler's stats spiked playing with CHris Paul (alley-oop party)... but we're talking about Ish freakin Smith here... he's barely a starting PG.    Gives you an idea of how bad the surrounding talent on Philly has been that it takes Ish Smith to unlock some potential in Noel. 

So what are we really talking about here?  Noel's floor is rich man's Tyson Chandler?  I'd take it.  He might actually already be a better defender than Tyson... We haven't seen NOel in a real NBA system yet. 

Here's his highlights in the game prior to last against Utah when he had 18 points, 5 blocks and 2 steals.  You still see Ish Smith setting him up for basically all of his points, but flashes of his potential are there... you actually see him hit a couple mid-range shots.  You can also see how Noel roaming the paint without Okafor results in defensive plays:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPyKuCKw88

From watching both of those videos you also get a sense of why Noel is struggling with Okafor clogging the middle.   Okafor takes up a lot of space and when they feed him inside he's an old-school post-up player... Noel's success seems to be mostly coming on fast breaks and lots of movement.   Defensively, he needs to be roaming around the paint.   It's really clear those two can't play together.   I'd love to see Zach Lowe or someone do a breakdown video of why Noel has been struggling this year.   So much of it has to do with system and players surrounding him.

So what's Smart's floor?  Rich man's Tony Allen? 

I agree both of those guys have a lot of potential.  I agree both of those guys have a lot of flaws.  I'd rather have Noel.   The common argument is that "the league is going small!... you don't need a center!"... it's not true at all, though.   As the league goes smaller it means you need scoring from your small guys.  Smart (so far) hasn't displayed scoring competence.  Also, as the league goes smaller it just heightens the need for a superior interior defender.   SO many of these little guys are able to get into the paint whereas in the past the rules made it a lot more difficult.   You need someone at the rim challenging shots.   Guys like Noel will always have value in this league.  What you might not need these days is a classic post-up player like Okafor.  I don't blame Philly for not biting on a trade yet... they are sitting on a really difficult decision.  They might actually be better off keeping Noel and selling okafor for a fool's ransom.

It would be great if Noel's floor was a rich-man's version of a player that won DPOY, but that's a lot more likely to be his ceiling than his floor

I guess we have to see how Nerlens looks in 8 years... cuz Chandler didn't win DPOY until he was 29 years old in his 11th NBA season.  He wasn't much of anything his first three years.

Nerlens' floor is rich man's Tyson Chandler.   

Actually kind of interesting... I was curious how much of a difference Ish Smith actually made in Nerlens.   

They haven't started a ton of games together yet.  It's a small sample size.  In total, there have been 13 games in which Noel has started next to Ish Smith and played at least 25 minutes.  His stats during those 13 games:  15.7 points, 11.1 rebounds, 2 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.2 blocks with 56% shooting in 33mpg.

Pretty interesting.  Another start next to Ish Smith tonight:  15 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks with 55% shooting in 28mpg... almost exactly what he averaged in his previous 13 games with Ish.

I think the buy low window is closing a bit.   You got naysayers like the folks on this forum peddling the idea that Noel has "regressed" and is a future benchwarmer based on his struggles next to Okafor.   If any semblance of that backwards logic actually impacted Noel's trade value, you have to imagine that the last 4 games have given proof to the idea that Noel will be fine as long as he is paired with some NBA talent and isn't playing out of position.   If anyone didn't believe that Noel's struggles were due to the Okafor pairing, it's gonna be real hard for them to stay on that Island.

The 'buy low' window on Noel was and is likely a figment of bloggers' imagination. I doubt the Sixers have ever really been down on him. And as I stated when they trade for Smith, one of the only logical explanations for the price they paid / risk they took was his relationship on and off the court with Noel.

I find a lot of the opinions of Noel on this board pretty laughable. Guy would be awesome in green, if he ever does become available.

[spikelovetheCelts]

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=363871081 Phily's paper is saying it would take Smart. We need a center. I think that is why Rozier was drafted so Smart could fetch a big man.

[kozlodoev]

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=363871081 Phily's paper is saying it would take Smart. We need a center. I think that is why Rozier was drafted so Smart could fetch a big man.

The fact the writer would rather have Schroder, Oladipo, or LaVine should tell you something.

Also, he thinks Smart is 6'4 

[Eddie20]

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=363871081 Phily's paper is saying it would take Smart. We need a center. I think that is why Rozier was drafted so Smart could fetch a big man.

The fact the writer would rather have Schroder, Oladipo, or LaVine should tell you something.

Also, he thinks Smart is 6'4 

Huh? How tall do you think he is?

[LarBrd33]

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=363871081 Phily's paper is saying it would take Smart. We need a center. I think that is why Rozier was drafted so Smart could fetch a big man.

The fact the writer would rather have Schroder, Oladipo, or LaVine should tell you something.

Also, he thinks Smart is 6'4 

Yeah that article was also after like two games of the Ish Smith/Noel reunion. 

It's interesting, because right now they have Okafor coming off the bench and seem to be slightly more successful... Will they stick with that?   They have to eventually trade one of those guys.  They are probably best off waiting until this offseason, but I wonder if they'd bite on something before the deadline. 

[Forza Juventus]

I think Boston and Philadelphia would want to watch Marcus Smart play for the rest of the year before agreeing to a trade for Nerlens Noel.

[tankcity!]

I think Philly would trade Smart for Noel. Boston actually wanted Noel and like the third pick for Smart and a couple of draft picks. That offer was absurd...

My hope is that we can steal Okafor from them. I would trade Smart for him, but not sure about Noel. My eyes are telling me to write Smart off offensively, but the guy works hard. There is a chance he could make a huge jump in one offseason. Jimmy Butler did it. Same with Gilbert Arenas. Players sometimes improve out of nowhere after one offseason of working out hard.

[LarBrd33]

Nerlens Noel admitted to feeling more "engaged" when he's playing center instead of power forward.

"I just feel engaged the whole game," he said. "I feel like I can put up numbers throughout the whole [stat] line when I'm especially engaged like that and help my team in so many ways that not too many people can." Noel's numbers at the 5 (14.1 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.0 steals, 1.8 blocks, 63.2 percent shooting) dwarf his production at the 4 (9.4 points, 7.9 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 1.2 blocks, 41.6 percent shooting).

His last 5 (all with Ish Smith while playing Center):   16 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 2.2 blocks, 2.4 steals - 71% shooting in 27.6mpg

[celticsclay]

Nerlens Noel admitted to feeling more "engaged" when he's playing center instead of power forward.

"I just feel engaged the whole game," he said. "I feel like I can put up numbers throughout the whole [stat] line when I'm especially engaged like that and help my team in so many ways that not too many people can." Noel's numbers at the 5 (14.1 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.0 steals, 1.8 blocks, 63.2 percent shooting) dwarf his production at the 4 (9.4 points, 7.9 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 1.2 blocks, 41.6 percent shooting).

His last 5 (all with Ish Smith while playing Center):   16 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 2.2 blocks, 2.4 steals - 71% shooting in 27.6mpg

Did you know for two months last season (if you chop it just right) he averaged something like 12 points 8 rebounds 2 steals 2 blocks on 57.41% shooting? Also in games this season, when Okafor doesn't play, but only one's where he is injured and not the ones he is suspended for, he is having an even more impressive campaign.

[LarBrd33]

Nerlens Noel admitted to feeling more "engaged" when he's playing center instead of power forward.

"I just feel engaged the whole game," he said. "I feel like I can put up numbers throughout the whole [stat] line when I'm especially engaged like that and help my team in so many ways that not too many people can." Noel's numbers at the 5 (14.1 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.0 steals, 1.8 blocks, 63.2 percent shooting) dwarf his production at the 4 (9.4 points, 7.9 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 1.2 blocks, 41.6 percent shooting).

His last 5 (all with Ish Smith while playing Center):   16 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 2.2 blocks, 2.4 steals - 71% shooting in 27.6mpg

Did you know for two months last season (if you chop it just right) he averaged something like 12 points 8 rebounds 2 steals 2 blocks on 57.41% shooting? Also in games this season, when Okafor doesn't play, but only one's where he is injured and not the ones he is suspended for, he is having an even more impressive campaign.

I know.  Super impressive for raw prospect just 105 games into his NBA career coming off a major injury.  Will be interesting to see what he does once he's playing on a real basketball team.  Must be hard to focus nightly on a sitting duck franchise filled with sitting duck talent.   

[trickybilly]

I'd still like to have Nerlens.

Any takers for a shot at him in FA? Is there a chance that some verbal commitment to re-sign with the Mavs could be broken?

Dallas are presumably going to have another go at the playoffs next year (and every year until Dirk retires), but they might not be willing to give him more than a two year deal. He might request a 1 year deal too

Anyone willing to give Nerlens a big 5 year deal for backup at center?

[Somebody]

I'd still like to have Nerlens.

Any takers for a shot at him in FA? Is there a chance that some verbal commitment to re-sign with the Mavs could be broken?

Dallas are presumably going to have another go at the playoffs next year (and every year until Dirk retires), but they might not be willing to give him more than a two year deal. He might request a 1 year deal too

Anyone willing to give Nerlens a big 5 year deal for backup at center?

Rather try to pry Cauley Stein for cheap from the Kings, they see the big Papa as their future center