Author Topic: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)  (Read 19185 times)

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Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2015, 01:25:13 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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#2 - No sense of humor - The prequels seemed like they were written by someone with autism or something.  No sense of humor at all.  In the original, they were able to improvise slightly.  Han had swagger.  It was light hearted and fun.

I don't have a problem with ideas of yours that others perceive to be obnoxious at times and it's perfectly fine if you don't like a movie, but to be so inconceivably insulting and offensive towards people with autism is not only unacceptable, but is also, as a move, lower than Sam Hinkie's win total, I'm sorry.
Maybe you find it offensive if you don't know much about the autism spectrum (or are familiar with other famous celebrities, artists, directors who are autistic).  I have spent a lot of time with folks with high functioning autism.  Some of them are very smart, but have difficulty comprehending certain emotions... and humor is often a difficult thing for them to grasp.  An autistic girl I worked with simply didn't understand jokes unless they were puns. She loved puns.  I also know someone who knows George Lucas personally and he insists he shows all the signs of high functioning autism.  There's been a lot of speculation in the autism community for a while that Lucas has Aspergerís Syndrome based on elements of his personality and how his writing lacks emotion (fwiw, Helena Bonham Carter claimed that Tim Burton also had all the signs of asperger's).  Sorry if the comment comes across flippant or if my use of the word "autism" was a trigger (I think some people confuse autism with down's syndrome), but I was more commenting on  the way those prequels were written, what the focus of the movies was on, how stunted/flat the dialogue was... and generally how the characters interacted with each other.  They seemed to lack a basic understanding of how real people interact with each other.  The reviewer in the video I linked says it felt like it was written by an 8 year old.  Maybe instead I should have said the prequels seem like they were written by someone with social problems... and I've heard from someone who knows him directly that George Lucas has social problems... and have seen many interviews in which people described him as an anti-social introvert with an obsessive personality.  He apparently had never been easy to get along with on sets... and I suspect that if Harrison Ford had not been clashing with Lucas and making up his own lines in the original movie, it probably wouldn't have worked as well. 

Anyways...  a lot of the best parts of the original trilogy didn't actually come from Lucas.   Lots of improvisation, both Empire and Jedi (and Episode 7) were written by Lawrence Kasden.  There were elements that were added in spite of him.  Lucas also wasn't the director on either "Empire Strikes Back" or "Return of the Jedi".   There was a lot more collaboration in the original trilogy.   With the prequels, Lucas took over the entire thing (all writing and directing responsibilities) and ultimately failed.  I think Lucas strength is world-building and ideas... I'm not sure he was ever a great director.  He should consult, create plot elements, give input on the world... and then step back and let people with a sense of humor and understanding of storytelling principles write the screenplay and direct the film.

No, I know far too much about mental health problems and disabilities, thank you very much.  I find it offensive and insulting because it is so, despite your 'well I have black friends so I can't be racist' kind of argument as it pertains to people with such disabilities.  I just can't believe that you're actually trying to defend what you said.  Wow.  Has D.O.S. taken over your account, lol, because he's great at offending any number of people at any time on here which has been well documented, unfortunately.

I never got the sense that you were that type of guy, though, and perhaps this is all just a big misunderstanding over a poor choice of words, but here's how it sounded to me, "No sense of humor - The prequels seemed like they were written by some retard/someone with autism down syndrome or something.  No sense of humor at all."  It may not have been your intent, but that's how it came across to me.  It wasn't like there was any attempt at humor by you there, either, from where I sit, not even like target's ocd stands for obsessive christmas disorder shirts, which, while at least being somewhat cute and funny, are still in poor taste, imo, even if that is not the intent of the company or the people who bought the product.  Sorry, your choice of words just really bothered me.

As far as the movie, I do like Star Wars, but I'm not a fanatic about the films, so you'll have to fill me in on why so many people hated the prequels.  I was a kid at the time when they came out, and, not being an avid Star wars fan, thought that it was at least cool to see more films come out, even though the ensuing years have showed that Hollywood is clearly out of ideas and is intent on turning every goo-to-great movie into a Land Before Time Format, lol.  They just don't know to quit when they're ahead.  From the ads from this movie, all I saw was Star Wars 7 - We're All Old Now :laugh:. That doesn't mean that I might not still want to see it at some point, but yeah, from what Eja/Mace Windu :laugh: has said, it sounds like this film is to Star Wars what The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was to the Indiana Jones series, which I love, as in they waited far too long.  Idk who the directors are that you've mentioned, although I know Lucas, obviously, and J.J. Abrams does sound familiar, lol, but I don't remember any of his films right now.  Feel free to expand or not on this, because I'm not even a novice in this department.  I'm sorry for coming down so hard on you, btw, it's just that that really irked me, intentional or not.

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2015, 03:38:19 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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#2 - No sense of humor - The prequels seemed like they were written by someone with autism or something.  No sense of humor at all.  In the original, they were able to improvise slightly.  Han had swagger.  It was light hearted and fun.

I don't have a problem with ideas of yours that others perceive to be obnoxious at times and it's perfectly fine if you don't like a movie, but to be so inconceivably insulting and offensive towards people with autism is not only unacceptable, but is also, as a move, lower than Sam Hinkie's win total, I'm sorry.
Maybe you find it offensive if you don't know much about the autism spectrum (or are familiar with other famous celebrities, artists, directors who are autistic).  I have spent a lot of time with folks with high functioning autism.  Some of them are very smart, but have difficulty comprehending certain emotions... and humor is often a difficult thing for them to grasp.  An autistic girl I worked with simply didn't understand jokes unless they were puns. She loved puns.  I also know someone who knows George Lucas personally and he insists he shows all the signs of high functioning autism.  There's been a lot of speculation in the autism community for a while that Lucas has Aspergerís Syndrome based on elements of his personality and how his writing lacks emotion (fwiw, Helena Bonham Carter claimed that Tim Burton also had all the signs of asperger's).  Sorry if the comment comes across flippant or if my use of the word "autism" was a trigger (I think some people confuse autism with down's syndrome), but I was more commenting on  the way those prequels were written, what the focus of the movies was on, how stunted/flat the dialogue was... and generally how the characters interacted with each other.  They seemed to lack a basic understanding of how real people interact with each other.  The reviewer in the video I linked says it felt like it was written by an 8 year old.  Maybe instead I should have said the prequels seem like they were written by someone with social problems... and I've heard from someone who knows him directly that George Lucas has social problems... and have seen many interviews in which people described him as an anti-social introvert with an obsessive personality.  He apparently had never been easy to get along with on sets... and I suspect that if Harrison Ford had not been clashing with Lucas and making up his own lines in the original movie, it probably wouldn't have worked as well. 

Anyways...  a lot of the best parts of the original trilogy didn't actually come from Lucas.   Lots of improvisation, both Empire and Jedi (and Episode 7) were written by Lawrence Kasden.  There were elements that were added in spite of him.  Lucas also wasn't the director on either "Empire Strikes Back" or "Return of the Jedi".   There was a lot more collaboration in the original trilogy.   With the prequels, Lucas took over the entire thing (all writing and directing responsibilities) and ultimately failed.  I think Lucas strength is world-building and ideas... I'm not sure he was ever a great director.  He should consult, create plot elements, give input on the world... and then step back and let people with a sense of humor and understanding of storytelling principles write the screenplay and direct the film.

No, I know far too much about mental health problems and disabilities, thank you very much.  I find it offensive and insulting because it is so, despite your 'well I have black friends so I can't be racist' kind of argument as it pertains to people with such disabilities.  I just can't believe that you're actually trying to defend what you said.  Wow.  Has D.O.S. taken over your account, lol, because he's great at offending any number of people at any time on here which has been well documented, unfortunately.

I never got the sense that you were that type of guy, though, and perhaps this is all just a big misunderstanding over a poor choice of words, but here's how it sounded to me, "No sense of humor - The prequels seemed like they were written by some retard/someone with autism down syndrome or something.  No sense of humor at all."  It may not have been your intent, but that's how it came across to me.  It wasn't like there was any attempt at humor by you there, either, from where I sit, not even like target's ocd stands for obsessive christmas disorder shirts, which, while at least being somewhat cute and funny, are still in poor taste, imo, even if that is not the intent of the company or the people who bought the product.  Sorry, your choice of words just really bothered me.

As far as the movie, I do like Star Wars, but I'm not a fanatic about the films, so you'll have to fill me in on why so many people hated the prequels.  I was a kid at the time when they came out, and, not being an avid Star wars fan, thought that it was at least cool to see more films come out, even though the ensuing years have showed that Hollywood is clearly out of ideas and is intent on turning every goo-to-great movie into a Land Before Time Format, lol.  They just don't know to quit when they're ahead.  From the ads from this movie, all I saw was Star Wars 7 - We're All Old Now :laugh:. That doesn't mean that I might not still want to see it at some point, but yeah, from what Eja/Mace Windu :laugh: has said, it sounds like this film is to Star Wars what The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was to the Indiana Jones series, which I love, as in they waited far too long.  Idk who the directors are that you've mentioned, although I know Lucas, obviously, and J.J. Abrams does sound familiar, lol, but I don't remember any of his films right now.  Feel free to expand or not on this, because I'm not even a novice in this department.  I'm sorry for coming down so hard on you, btw, it's just that that really irked me, intentional or not.
It's not impossible for folks with aspergers to have a sense of humor.  Like I said, my co-worker with high functioning autism really enjoys Puns.  Clearly George Lucas thought Jar Jar Binx was hilarious.  But folks with aspergers often struggle with humor.

Quote
Hans Asperger, in 1944, theorised that people with Aspergerís Syndrome do not have the propensity for humour, and that attempts at humour would turn out, at best, awkward, and at worst, hostile. In recent years, this musing has been proved to be only true in minority. While people with Autism and Aspergerís Syndrome can have difficulties with the subtleties of humour, this does not mean to say that having an ASD and having a sense of humour cannot mesh.

The key thing in your response was: 
Quote
Here's how it sounded to me, "No sense of humor - The prequels seemed like they were written by some retard/someone with autism down syndrome or something. "

This confirms what I believed... you don't know the difference between autism and down syndrome.  If that's how my comment sounded to you, I don't blame you for being offended... but if that's how it sounded to you, it's clearly a topic you aren't familiar with.

It's not the same thing...

Down Syndrome:


(Lauren Potter of "Glee" fame)


(Chris Burke of "Life Goes On" fame)


(Edward Barbanell from "Workaholics")

Aspergers:


(Daryl Hannah from "Splash")


(Craig Nichollis of the rock band "the Vines")


(James Taylor - 5-time Grammy Award Winner)

... As well as a host of other folks who have either been partially diagnosed, have pubically stated they exhibit signs, or have had experts speculate that they likely had Aspergers... including:  David Byrne, Marilyn Monroe, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Andy Warhol, Al Gore, Tim Burton, Michael Jackson, Bob Dylan, Albert Einstein, Crispin Glover, Bobby Fischer, Sheldon Cooper, Abed Nadir, Sherlock Holmes, GEORGE LUCAS, and many others.

But yeah, maybe I should have said "the prequels seem like they were written by a socially awkward introvert with no sense of humor and tendency to obsess/fixate over unimportant details"... which if you know anything about George Lucas or have watched a single documentary on the making of Star Wars, would have been pretty difficult to dispute.  Sorry about my choice of words.  I do regret making that comment... mostly because I had to spend time explaining them... but also because you think less of me now... The last thing I want is for Beat LA to think I'm a retard-hating racist.  But if we're being straight with one another... I'd guess Lucas is on the autism spectrum and I believe it reflects in his writing (And by the way just to reiterate... this isn't some crazy rambling Drunk uncle thing I made up on my own... I've been hearing these things about Lucas for years, there's speculation all over the internet if you want to Google it, I've heard it from someone who has spent time with him first hand, and it's even referenced by those in the autism community itself)   Lucas seems like a very intelligent guy, wonderful at world building, great at creating stories and obsessing over tiny details...  He's the architect of the Star Wars world and deserves praise for it... but he seemingly struggled with writing believable dialogue or multi-dimensional relatable characters.  He was a good Producer.  He should have let others write and direct the prequels based on his own concepts. 

Anyways, before the Star Wars convo was railroaded by PC Principal, the point I was attempting to make was that there was a significant amount of backlash to the prequels... and I think "Episode 7" was a direct response to that.  What was lacking from the prequels was on full display in the new movie... and you can blame the botched prequels on poor writing, poor storytelling and poor directing.   It's clear that the new movies have a focus on character, a focus on humor, a simplified story, wonderful action sequences and "moments of delight" that brought back the Magic of the original trilogy.  What's funny to me is that the main criticism the movie is getting (though from a minority of fans) which is on full display in this thread is that the story was too simplified and too similar to the original.  I guess they couldn't please everyone, but in my opinion... they totally nailed it.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 04:19:11 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2015, 10:00:34 AM »

Offline MBunge

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2.  I'd hold off on thinking that any of the relatively minor problems with TFA are actually part of some master plan.  It's most likely they're just mistakes.  I mean, Han just mentions The Force to Rey and she goes from someone who has never shown any Jedi abilities to being more powerful than Luke in "Empire?"  If you have to invoke Jason Bourne to explain it, it's really better to just admit that it doesn't hold up and move on.

Mike
There's much of the story left to be explained.  I'm saying that these "minor problems' likely aren't problems at all. 

And I'm suggesting that usually these kind of problems are simply about the creators not being perfect and their creation not being perfect.  You can come up with excuses, explanations and rationalizations for anything if you work hard enough.  That doesn't make them true or accurate.

Mike

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2015, 10:05:53 AM »

Offline MBunge

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#2 - No sense of humor - The prequels seemed like they were written by someone with autism or something.  No sense of humor at all.  In the original, they were able to improvise slightly.

Just watched the original again and the guy who wrote and directed it clearly didn't have the kind of condition you are talking about. You can't give all the credit to the actors.  Lucas at that age absolutely had a solid grasp on emotions, humor and interpersonal relationships.  If anything affected him later on, it's decades of being insanely wealthy and surrounded by sycophants.

Mike
George Lucas is a known anti-social.  He's very awkward.  Had trouble developing relationships.  Awkward on sets.  Went into it in the previous page, but he shows many signs of someone with aspergers. 

But more to the point, you suggested I'm wrong, because Lucas wrote the original "Star Wars".   You don't actually know what you're talking about. 

Being anti-social doesn't mean you have Aspergers or anything else.  Not every non-normal personality is the result of a biological/psychological disorder.

And I know how much you hate it when people suggest you're wrong but Lucas both wrote and directed Star Wars.  Yes, other people contributed but he was the guy in charge.  Google how seriously Hollywood takes screenwriting credits before you suggest the script was primarily written by others and Lucas' just had his named slapped on it.  And Lucas was the unquestioned director, which kind of has a lot to do with how the script is presented on screen.

And considering that YOU are the one trying to freakin' diagnose someone you've never met based on nothing but watching movies, maybe you need to dial back the arrogant presumption on this one.

Mike

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2015, 10:11:45 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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One thing I don't get is that some fans hatred for JJ Abrams.he did a great job with this movie. Did it justice if you ask me

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2015, 10:18:21 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I won't touch this Asperger's nonsense...

Anyways, saw the movie last night.  A few of my takeaways:

1)  Hate, hate, hate the fact they killed Han. 

2)  It is a mirror of A New Hope but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing & certainly is better than Episodes I-III which Lucas botched.  Although, there were definitely some parts I was thinking New Hope ripoff & wasn't thrilled with it.

3) The more I think about it, how the heck is Rey so advanced with the Force already?  Heck, it even took Luke longer to get a grip on it.  I just don't understand how she could be able to grasp it so quickly without any sort of training.

4)  Thought Chewie was excellent.

5)  They can go in about a dozen directions with Kylo Ren.  Really looking forward to how they progress his character.

I don't think its as good as any of IV-VI but I think they've been able to resurrect the heartbeat of the franchise.   

Still hate what they did to Han, though.


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Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2015, 12:15:24 PM »

Offline GC003332

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Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2015, 12:42:16 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I won't touch this Asperger's nonsense...

Anyways, saw the movie last night.  A few of my takeaways:

1)  Hate, hate, hate the fact they killed Han. 

I didn't mind it, though it was heavily telegraphed.  And practically, as others have noted if Han doesn't get killed off Harrison Ford probably doesn't sign on; he wanted Han killed in the Return of the Jedi.  But I think you either need to kill Han or relegate him to the background; it'd be very tough to have him prominently involved in the long-term plot.  Here he served as a major driver of character development for Ren, Rey, and to a lesser extent Finn.

3) The more I think about it, how the heck is Rey so advanced with the Force already?  Heck, it even took Luke longer to get a grip on it.  I just don't understand how she could be able to grasp it so quickly without any sort of training.

She may have been trained already and forgotten/had her memory wiped; there's very likely some pre-existing link between her and Kylo that she doesn't remember.   They're probably either siblings or cousins (if she's Luke's kid). 


5)  They can go in about a dozen directions with Kylo Ren.  Really looking forward to how they progress his character.


Yeah he's got the most interesting future arc.  I doubt they'll have the guts to go through with this, but Rey looked like she was showing some Dark Side tendencies when she was using the Force - during the last fight she looked like she was trying to be at peace but wound up lashing out in anger.  The most interesting resolution to me would the two of them flipping places over time, with Rey being corrupted and Kylo having to sacrifice himself to stop/redeem her.  It's more likely she'll be tempted by the Dark Side and resist and he'll just pull a Vader on whatever Snoke is, though.

The whole thing felt like a "soft reboot" - starting with very similar story beats but then (hopefully) taking it to some new places.  Next they need to solve the single biggest mystery - how'd C3PO get that red arm?????
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 12:50:25 PM by foulweatherfan »

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2015, 12:52:37 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I won't touch this Asperger's nonsense...

Anyways, saw the movie last night.  A few of my takeaways:

1)  Hate, hate, hate the fact they killed Han. 

I didn't mind it, though it was heavily telegraphed.  And practically, as others have noted if Han doesn't get killed off Harrison Ford probably doesn't sign on; he wanted Han killed in the Return of the Jedi.  But I think you either need to kill Han or relegate him to the background; it'd be very tough to have him prominently involved in the long-term plot.  Here he served as a major driver of character development for Ren, Rey, and to a lesser extent Finn.

3) The more I think about it, how the heck is Rey so advanced with the Force already?  Heck, it even took Luke longer to get a grip on it.  I just don't understand how she could be able to grasp it so quickly without any sort of training.

She may have been trained already and forgotten/had her memory wiped; there's very likely some pre-existing link between her and Kylo that she doesn't remember.   They're probably either siblings or cousins (if she's Luke's kid). 


5)  They can go in about a dozen directions with Kylo Ren.  Really looking forward to how they progress his character.


Yeah he's got the most interesting future arc.  I doubt they'll have the guts to go through with this, but Rey looked like she was showing some Dark Side tendencies when she was using the Force - during the last fight she looked like she was trying to be at peace but wound up lashing out in anger.  The most interesting resolution to me would the two of them flipping places over time, with Rey being corrupted and Kylo having to sacrifice himself to stop/redeem her.  It's more likely he'll just pull a Vader on whatever Snoke is, though.

The whole thing felt like a "soft reboot" - starting with very similar story beats but then (hopefully) taking it to some new places.  Next they need to solve the single biggest mystery - how'd C3PO get that red arm?????

I understand the history behind Ford & the Solo character in regards to killing him or not.  I would've been fine with him being relegated more to the background in VIII & IX.  If Ford really wanted out, they could've simply had him die off screen at some point or have him far way.  Just to send him out that way seemed unnecessary given the history of the character.   Was it necessary for the character development of Kylo Ren? Maybe but I'm inclined to say no.

It was definitely telegraphed, though.  The whole buildup was basically New Hope on the Death Star rehashed with Han as Obi Wan.   You could see it building for a good 15-20 minutes before it happened.  It was gut-wrenching. 


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Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2015, 01:15:02 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I enjoyed the movie, but the more time I've been away from it the more I've felt rather cheated on it.  It's amazing to me that they made a movie that was nearly identical to episode 4, with some other story lines taken from 6, etc.  I'm all for a bit of history repeating itself, but this movie had a direct character-to-character match that showed almost no creativity.

This review pretty much hit home on how I feel about the movie:  http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/16/star-wars-spoilers-the-force-awakens-lacks-a-single-original-idea-and-you-will-love-it-anyways/


Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2015, 01:16:51 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I know how much you hate it when people suggest you're wrong but Lucas both wrote and directed Star Wars. 

Neat.  The script went through several revisions. Multiple people including Francis Ford Copolla, his agent and his wife had input into the story and fixing the clunky dialogue and stunted characters.  Despite that, the script was still so bad that Harrison ford reportedly made up his own lines on set.  Yeah Lucas got writing credit.  Perhaps he should have had his wife, the studio, multiple friends and Harrison ford look over his prequels instead of just shooting his rough draft.  Alls I know is, while enjoyable in some regards (the involvement of top level costume designers, fight choreographers, special effects experts, CGI designers, John Williams, sound engineers, and hundreds of others who go into making a production of that scale), the prequels were poorly written and poorly directed.  The backlash was so mighty that Lucas was shamed into selling the entire property to Disney.  Abrams and Kasden threw out most of what Lucas had for a story and wrote their own for episode 7... And it was wonderful.  Glad to see they brought back the sense of humor that was sorely lacking in the prequels.  Disney, Abrams and Kasden seemed to understand what people liked about the original Star Wars trilogy and manage to capture that.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 01:34:09 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2015, 01:41:35 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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Abrams and Kasden threw out most of what Lucas had for a story and wrote their own for episode 7... And it was wonderful. 
 

While I realize you are referring to throwing out what he wrote for episode 7, and that Lucas had help for episode 4 (the original), in NO WAY did they "write their own episode".  Instead, they did this, which required nearly 0 creativity (SPOILER ALERT):




Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2015, 01:45:06 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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I won't touch this Asperger's nonsense...

Anyways, saw the movie last night.  A few of my takeaways:

1)  Hate, hate, hate the fact they killed Han. 

2)  It is a mirror of A New Hope but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing & certainly is better than Episodes I-III which Lucas botched.  Although, there were definitely some parts I was thinking New Hope ripoff & wasn't thrilled with it.

3) The more I think about it, how the heck is Rey so advanced with the Force already?  Heck, it even took Luke longer to get a grip on it.  I just don't understand how she could be able to grasp it so quickly without any sort of training.

4)  Thought Chewie was excellent.

5)  They can go in about a dozen directions with Kylo Ren.  Really looking forward to how they progress his character.

I don't think its as good as any of IV-VI but I think they've been able to resurrect the heartbeat of the franchise.   

Still hate what they did to Han, though.

You never know, he could still be alive

Kylo Ren is def not dead yet

Finn will wake up one of these days and join Rey

Chewie was hilarious

This Star Wars movie was better than the last 2

Cgi not that adv , kept true to the original as possible. Overall a great movie. Should break all kinds of box-office records

Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2015, 01:48:49 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I mean, guys, let's be real -- the original Star Wars was a pretty by-the-numbers Hero's Journey story.

So to suggest they copied Episode 4 for Episode 7 kind of overlooks the fact that all along they've been working with a pretty straightforward story structure.  A very old and effective one, to boot.

The reason Episode 7 seems so much like Episode 4 is probably simply because they're looking at Episode 7 as a reboot type story, which means they need to begin the Hero's Journey arc over again.

The prequels were so dissatisfying because they failed to follow an effective structure around the narrative arc of a particular character's journey.
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Re: Force Awakens. (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2015, 01:51:09 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I mean, guys, let's be real -- the original Star Wars was a pretty by-the-numbers Hero's Journey story.

So to suggest they copied Episode 4 for Episode 7 kind of overlooks the fact that all along they've been working with a pretty straightforward story structure.  A very old and effective one, to boot.


Oh c'mon, we're not talking about a general hero path/story, we're talking about a nearly identical step-by-step story with identical characters in identical environments.