Author Topic: Carrie Fisher is Awesome  (Read 4142 times)

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Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 04:21:38 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'd wager that she's taken full advantage of the fame that came her way, and I'd guess she's happier with the way things turned out than she'd have been if she hadn't taken advantage of her looks to be even considered for that role.

OK, fine, even if all of that is true ... can you blame her for being bitter that the space bikini is maybe the most enduring scene of that movie for a lot of people?

I don't understand why it's so important to you to push against that.  So women in Hollywood get ahead, or not, because of their looks.  The ones that benefit from that can't resent the fact that they're evaluated based on how attractive they are?

  This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.

Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 04:27:32 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.
I thought I'd revisit the case of the multi-million heir on hunger strike down in Mizzou when Pho said that "privilege is not just based on race" over in the other thread, but figured it's a waste of time.
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Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2015, 04:37:34 PM »

Offline eja117

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I admit I'm having a hard time with the logic here. Are we saying that it's totally understandable if the actors of Game of Thrones are annoyed that people like the shenanigans on the show?  Because I think that's trying to have it both ways. 

Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2015, 04:46:01 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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  This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.

As usual you're trying to reduce something complicated to an either / or.

I ask again -- can't an actress participate in Hollywood, benefiting from her looks, and at the same resent the fact that doing so is necessary for her to enjoy success, when male actors don't have to do the same?

You seem to be suggesting the answer is no.  A person in Fisher's position has to make a choice -- participate and be silent about it ever after, or refuse and bear the consequences.  That doesn't seem fair to me.  Why not focus on the writers and directors who bear most of the power in that situation?


I thought I'd revisit the case of the multi-million heir on hunger strike down in Mizzou when Pho said that "privilege is not just based on race" over in the other thread, but figured it's a waste of time.

I mean, it'd be a complete red herring to this discussion, too, so there's that.

To the Mizzou thing, go look up the term "Intersectionality."
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Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2015, 04:49:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I admit I'm having a hard time with the logic here. Are we saying that it's totally understandable if the actors of Game of Thrones are annoyed that people like the shenanigans on the show?  Because I think that's trying to have it both ways.

I think it'd be understandable if a female actor on GoT, though happy to be a part of a really well done show, and glad to receive the accompanying career boost, also was bothered by the gratuitous sex scenes and nudity on the show that are an HBO hallmark.

Again, I'm not sure why this is such an out there concept.  Do none of you have jobs that involve aspects you're not entirely thrilled about, but you do your job anyway because it's a pay check?
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2015, 09:51:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.

As usual you're trying to reduce something complicated to an either / or.

  That's a much more valuable skill than you imagine. It's worth pointing out the irony in your willingness to attack the character of people who have no choice but to participate in a system where they derive no special benefits but others (who happen to share their skin color) might, but someone who willingly participates in and derives great benefit from a system (also based on looks) is above scrutiny. Your arguments appear to be based more than anything else on whether they favor whichever group you sympathize with the most. That's the kind of complication that I manage to cut through.

I ask again -- can't an actress participate in Hollywood, benefiting from her looks, and at the same resent the fact that doing so is necessary for her to enjoy success, when male actors don't have to do the same?

  Most male actors don't benefit from their looks? I think that's highly unlikely.

You seem to be suggesting the answer is no.  A person in Fisher's position has to make a choice -- participate and be silent about it ever after, or refuse and bear the consequences.  That doesn't seem fair to me.  Why not focus on the writers and directors who bear most of the power in that situation?

  Sure, she can complain about being treated like a sex object, and others can point out that she chose to go into a field where much of her success was based on her being relatively attractive and she derived quite a bit of fame and fortune from it.

Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2015, 10:15:22 PM »

Offline eja117

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I admit I'm having a hard time with the logic here. Are we saying that it's totally understandable if the actors of Game of Thrones are annoyed that people like the shenanigans on the show?  Because I think that's trying to have it both ways.

I think it'd be understandable if a female actor on GoT, though happy to be a part of a really well done show, and glad to receive the accompanying career boost, also was bothered by the gratuitous sex scenes and nudity on the show that are an HBO hallmark.

Again, I'm not sure why this is such an out there concept.  Do none of you have jobs that involve aspects you're not entirely thrilled about, but you do your job anyway because it's a pay check?
Well if I do I don't lecture people about how terrible they are that they are creating the market that is employing me.

I mean if we take the analogy a little further than we can have actors that are really happy to be a part of a really well produced adult film, and don't mind the exposure, but really are frustrated by the fans that just see them as sex symbols and not much else. Boo freaking hoo.

Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2015, 10:18:20 PM »

Offline eja117

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I guarantee if they offered her a million bucks to get back in that outfit she'd do it. Instead they asked her to lose weight and now she's all indignant.