Zach Lowe with details on failed Winslow deal - suggests Melo as target

[Tr1boy]

Melo is of little use to this team.  It's one thing if they had a KG to his Ray coming in as well, but that isn't the case.  No sense giving up anything of significance for him.

Couldn't you say that acquiring Thomas last year would count as the Ray Allen part of the deal, and we very realistically make a play for Noah too. Really the 3 of them would have a similar dynamic to the old big 3.

Noah is less valuable than than KG was but Melo is closer to a great player than Pierce was at the time and Isiah/Bradley could become more impactful than Ray Allen/Tony Allen.

You have underrated all three players in the 2008 Celtics Big Three.  Noah especially man he is pretty washed up now.  KG is maybe the best PF of all time.

Nah, that's pretty inarguably Tim Duncan. KG's peak was higher, but I don't see how a credible argument can be made against Duncan.

If a player was the best ever at his height and was that good for some time I rate that as the best player.

Yes, I agree that Tim Duncan is the best PF ever.

Tim Duncan is a Center.

[Celtics18]

Phew!!

Thanks, Mike.

[Big333223]

Is it worrying that Ainge was trying to get Winslow at #4 and then he wound up slipping to #9?

[ssspence]

Im very interested in who Ainge would have picked at 4. Everything about his history suggests it indeed would have been Winslow, and if not, would probably not have been Porzongis. But I'd pay to know the answer.

[Snakehead]

Melo is of little use to this team.  It's one thing if they had a KG to his Ray coming in as well, but that isn't the case.  No sense giving up anything of significance for him.

Couldn't you say that acquiring Thomas last year would count as the Ray Allen part of the deal, and we very realistically make a play for Noah too. Really the 3 of them would have a similar dynamic to the old big 3.

Noah is less valuable than than KG was but Melo is closer to a great player than Pierce was at the time and Isiah/Bradley could become more impactful than Ray Allen/Tony Allen.

You have underrated all three players in the 2008 Celtics Big Three.  Noah especially man he is pretty washed up now.  KG is maybe the best PF of all time.

Yes, I agree

There's some witty editing right back at ya.

[littleteapot]

I'd go after Carmelo.

[European NBA fan]

Im very interested in who Ainge would have picked at 4. Everything about his history suggests it indeed would have been Winslow, and if not, would probably not have been Porzongis. But I'd pay to know the answer.

Winslow was a very possible target at no. 4. And I believe that Ainge only made the Godfather offer to Charlotte, when Winslow had dropped all the way to that spot (because that was what Danny would have offered to get him at the fourth spot).

[Chris22]

Thank God, Danny didn't make that deal.
MJ blew that one.

[ssspence]

Im very interested in who Ainge would have picked at 4. Everything about his history suggests it indeed would have been Winslow, and if not, would probably not have been Porzongis. But I'd pay to know the answer.

Winslow was a very possible target at no. 4. And I believe that Ainge only made the Godfather offer to Charlotte, when Winslow had dropped all the way to that spot (because that was what Danny would have offered to get him at the fourth spot).

Probably right.

As I've noted a number of times lately, it irks me. I very much like Winslow and was eager for Ainge to move to 9 to get him. But 4 was too high for him -- not because he may (or may not) turn into a great player, but because Ainge would have reached for him well before other teams. And in doing so,
he loses both value, and the opportunity to uncover a potential star.

I think Danny has a tendency to overreact to the personal make-up of the prospect (remember when he signed Scal to a 5 year deal?). By all accounts Winslow is a smart, tough sonoEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.un who really wants to win, and that's great -- combined with excellent physical tools, he could be excellent. But once again, Ainge would have passed on a player who almost certainly will be a better player and building block for one that he's more comfortable with from a due diligence perspective (and therefore is lower risk). And for me, he's done that too many times. Among other things, the Cs recent record of understanding European talent is dangerously poor.

So that no one can accuse me of revisionist history, I'll use the example of Rozier, our latest pick. It's early, but I think he was a major reach. There was just too much talk about his toughness, his speed, his defense, for me. Makes me think of Marcus Banks. The guy might fit a role in time, but he's not much a basketball player. We're going to see a couple of good young players emerge from picks behind him in the 2015 draft. Grant is an early candidate in my eyes (yes, I know he's 23).

I really worry about the Cs ability to make the right pick at a crucial moment, especially with the likelihood we'll see picks from the Nets in the mid-to-low lottery in coming years.

[max215]

I hate the ambiguity of 'a Nets pick'. I'd like to believe that it was the swap or the 2018 pick, because including the 2016 pick in that package would have been certifiably insane. Regardless of which Nets pick DA offered, we're pretty darn lucky that MJ said no.

[Hemingway]

Melo is defiantly a target for us. We are in wait and see mode now. The Knicks are doing alright atm so maybe nothing happens. But if they start to slide and Melo gets upset the cost to get him could drop. Also, the idea that you don;t get 1 star because you need 2 or 3 is just silly. If we got Melo, it would be easier to sign a star as a FA as we would be giving them a shot at a title.

It all comes down to:
1. If the Knicks at some point start to think getting out from Melo's contract is a good idea and
2. Where Melo's head is at.

[crimson_stallion]

Melo is of little use to this team.  It's one thing if they had a KG to his Ray coming in as well, but that isn't the case.  No sense giving up anything of significance for him.

Couldn't you say that acquiring Thomas last year would count as the Ray Allen part of the deal, and we very realistically make a play for Noah too. Really the 3 of them would have a similar dynamic to the old big 3.

Noah is less valuable than than KG was but Melo is closer to a great player than Pierce was at the time and Isiah/Bradley could become more impactful than Ray Allen/Tony Allen.

I see what you're saying, but even in his prime Noah had nothing on KG.  Sure he had the defensive impact and the passing skills, but he's never been any more than average on the offensive end - while KG was a dominant offensive player through most of his career.

Still I don't think Carmelo would be useless to this Celtics squad.  The Knicks are actually half respectable this year, which is shocking to me.  Take away Melo though, and they are about on par with the Lakers.  You can't underestimate the impact that a player of Melo's caliber has on a team.

If he had a chance to acquire a player as good as Carmelo I seriously doubt Ainge would are too much about how he fits Brad's system - if you have a player that good, you build your system around the player, and not the other way around.

With the defensive talent and general unselfishness here, I think this Celtics roster is a perfect compliment to a guy like Melo.  Guys like Smart, Bradley, Amir and Crowder are exactly the type of guys who complement that type of player - guys who can impact the game without needing the ball in their hands.

[JSD]

I'd go after Carmelo.

OF COURSE.

Bringing in Melo would make Boston an instant contender in the East and a free agent destination this summer.

[Hemingway]

Maybe the knicks would value Sully as an asset and he could be moved in a trade for melo. Sully Lee and pick(s) for melo. A line up of:

Amir
Melo
Crowder
AB
Smart

would be great. great d to put around melo and everyone except Smart is at least a decent 3 point shooter. We could move IT back to the 6th man role and always have him of Melo on the floor to score the ball. We'd still have decent depth for the 7-9th guys and we'd still have a lot of young guys to develop and picks to cash in down the road.


Ainge must have his plan A plan B, C, D....Z and I bet getting Melo is high up there.

[guava_wrench]

Im very interested in who Ainge would have picked at 4. Everything about his history suggests it indeed would have been Winslow, and if not, would probably not have been Porzongis. But I'd pay to know the answer.

Winslow was a very possible target at no. 4. And I believe that Ainge only made the Godfather offer to Charlotte, when Winslow had dropped all the way to that spot (because that was what Danny would have offered to get him at the fourth spot).

Probably right.

As I've noted a number of times lately, it irks me. I very much like Winslow and was eager for Ainge to move to 9 to get him. But 4 was too high for him -- not because he may (or may not) turn into a great player, but because Ainge would have reached for him well before other teams. And in doing so,
he loses both value, and the opportunity to uncover a potential star.

I think Danny has a tendency to overreact to the personal make-up of the prospect (remember when he signed Scal to a 5 year deal?). By all accounts Winslow is a smart, tough sono****un who really wants to win, and that's great -- combined with excellent physical tools, he could be excellent. But once again, Ainge would have passed on a player who almost certainly will be a better player and building block for one that he's more comfortable with from a due diligence perspective (and therefore is lower risk). And for me, he's done that too many times. Among other things, the Cs recent record of understanding European talent is dangerously poor.

So that no one can accuse me of revisionist history, I'll use the example of Rozier, our latest pick. It's early, but I think he was a major reach. There was just too much talk about his toughness, his speed, his defense, for me. Makes me think of Marcus Banks. The guy might fit a role in time, but he's not much a basketball player. We're going to see a couple of good young players emerge from picks behind him in the 2015 draft. Grant is an early candidate in my eyes (yes, I know he's 23).

I really worry about the Cs ability to make the right pick at a crucial moment, especially with the likelihood we'll see picks from the Nets in the mid-to-low lottery in coming years.

Or JR Giddens, a pick no one thought made any sense in the first round. And the consensus was correct.

Of course, that approached worked with Rondo. Not sure he has a good hitting percentage though with his reaches.