Author Topic: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations  (Read 6360 times)

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Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2015, 10:35:44 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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The only events happening on an NBA court this season that really matter for the future of this Celtics franchise are those that occur while the Brooklyn Nets are playing.

This iteration of the Celts might win our hearts again like last year's team, or they might just flounder and remain very up and down, on the way to another 7th or 8th seed playoff appearance and first round exit. 

It's just a pageant to keep us entertained and focused on something other than the fact the team has no clear direction forward until the value of all those future picks becomes clearer.
so, you are saying the celtics are part of the nba?  ;D
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Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2015, 10:40:44 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Stevens says Crowder needs to figure out how he's going to get more bucket's, and we need to draft a SF with the Brooklyn pick because someone has a big mouth.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2015, 11:20:55 PM »

Offline Chris22

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What we need is Turner starting and Thomas coming off the bench like we did last year.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2015, 11:24:30 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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10 played tonight but 6 of them got 30 mins+ and Rozier only got 5.  Looks like he is tightening things up a bit.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2015, 11:25:47 PM »

Offline jdz101

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The only events happening on an NBA court this season that really matter for the future of this Celtics franchise are those that occur while the Brooklyn Nets are playing.

This iteration of the Celts might win our hearts again like last year's team, or they might just flounder and remain very up and down, on the way to another 7th or 8th seed playoff appearance and first round exit. 

It's just a pageant to keep us entertained and focused on something other than the fact the team has no clear direction forward until the value of all those future picks becomes clearer.

Pretty much. This Celtics squad - smart included are really struggling to keep my attention this year for the aforementioned reason. Unless Danny can make a splash trade to grab some elite guys its merely just a countdown to the draft for me.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2015, 11:34:54 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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The only events happening on an NBA court this season that really matter for the future of this Celtics franchise are those that occur while the Brooklyn Nets are playing.

This iteration of the Celts might win our hearts again like last year's team, or they might just flounder and remain very up and down, on the way to another 7th or 8th seed playoff appearance and first round exit. 

It's just a pageant to keep us entertained and focused on something other than the fact the team has no clear direction forward until the value of all those future picks becomes clearer.






 I'm with Pho Shizil here. Just trade Thomas and Sullinger and loose some games. Come back with two top ten picks and sign someone good.

 Then we might have a future.

Oh c'mon Pho, and KGLL. You guys are better than that.

Do the Brooklyn picks have a HUGE influence on what happens to our team in the future? Absolutely, no doubt. But to say that everything we do this season is just "pageantry" and means nothing in the long term picture is ridiculous. This team has an excellent defensive DNA and the culture of hard work around this team is a MAJOR part of the future. Sullinger breaking out the way he has is big for us, whether we keep him or trade him, he looks like a much improved player. Bradley taking the leap he has is big, he was already one of our leaders and a guy with pretty high trade value, he's one of the guys that sets the tone for this team. Smart's continued development is of major importance for the future, and while he's been inconsistent on the offensive end he looks like a future DPOY candidate on that side of the ball.

Thomas looks like a legit all-star. Crowder is out of place starting, but he's cemented himself as key to both our defense and over-all mind set. Lee is gaining trade value. All of these things mean A LOT to our future. Let's just say we land Ben Simmons. Would you rather he come into the environment we've already established here, where Stevens can mold him into the driving force of our already pretty dang good team, or on a team like Philly where the losing is a constant force of discouragement?

No, the Brooklyn picks may turn out to be the biggest piece of the puzzle, and we need them to be as high as possible, but the things happening on this team this season, both good and bad, play a major part of what happens from here on out. How many teams in the NBA have a roster full of guys under 27 who could very well win 45-50 games AND have three likely lottery picks (with at least one being a likely top 5-7) coming on top of a boatload of more picks, young prospects, cap space and a top-10 NBA coach who's established a culture of defense, hard work and effort plus one of the leagues shrewdest GM's and best ownership groups.

Were very lucky to be in as good a position as we are right now for the future, some other teams have had a few higher picks (Philly, Sacramento, etc.) but they don't have all the other things we have that people don't realize are of tremendous importance to building a legit contender. It's fine to highlight how potentially valuable the Brooklyn picks are, but to say the things we've been doing the past two years don't matter is just disrespectful to these guys. Totally ridiculous.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2015, 11:46:27 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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The only events happening on an NBA court this season that really matter for the future of this Celtics franchise are those that occur while the Brooklyn Nets are playing.

This iteration of the Celts might win our hearts again like last year's team, or they might just flounder and remain very up and down, on the way to another 7th or 8th seed playoff appearance and first round exit. 

It's just a pageant to keep us entertained and focused on something other than the fact the team has no clear direction forward until the value of all those future picks becomes clearer.






 I'm with Pho Shizil here. Just trade Thomas and Sullinger and loose some games. Come back with two top ten picks and sign someone good.

 Then we might have a future.

Oh c'mon Pho, and KGLL. You guys are better than that.

Do the Brooklyn picks have a HUGE influence on what happens to our team in the future? Absolutely, no doubt. But to say that everything we do this season is just "pageantry" and means nothing in the long term picture is ridiculous. This team has an excellent defensive DNA and the culture of hard work around this team is a MAJOR part of the future. Sullinger breaking out the way he has is big for us, whether we keep him or trade him, he looks like a much improved player. Bradley taking the leap he has is big, he was already one of our leaders and a guy with pretty high trade value, he's one of the guys that sets the tone for this team. Smart's continued development is of major importance for the future, and while he's been inconsistent on the offensive end he looks like a future DPOY candidate on that side of the ball.

Thomas looks like a legit all-star. Crowder is out of place starting, but he's cemented himself as key to both our defense and over-all mind set. Lee is gaining trade value. All of these things mean A LOT to our future. Let's just say we land Ben Simmons. Would you rather he come into the environment we've already established here, where Stevens can mold him into the driving force of our already pretty dang good team, or on a team like Philly where the losing is a constant force of discouragement?

No, the Brooklyn picks may turn out to be the biggest piece of the puzzle, and we need them to be as high as possible, but the things happening on this team this season, both good and bad, play a major part of what happens from here on out. How many teams in the NBA have a roster full of guys under 27 who could very well win 45-50 games AND have three likely lottery picks (with at least one being a likely top 5-7) coming on top of a boatload of more picks, young prospects, cap space and a top-10 NBA coach who's established a culture of defense, hard work and effort plus one of the leagues shrewdest GM's and best ownership groups.

Were very lucky to be in as good a position as we are right now for the future, some other teams have had a few higher picks (Philly, Sacramento, etc.) but they don't have all the other things we have that people don't realize are of tremendous importance to building a legit contender. It's fine to highlight how potentially valuable the Brooklyn picks are, but to say the things we've been doing the past two years don't matter is just disrespectful to these guys. Totally ridiculous.

Yay!!!
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2015, 11:58:36 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The only events happening on an NBA court this season that really matter for the future of this Celtics franchise are those that occur while the Brooklyn Nets are playing.

This iteration of the Celts might win our hearts again like last year's team, or they might just flounder and remain very up and down, on the way to another 7th or 8th seed playoff appearance and first round exit. 

It's just a pageant to keep us entertained and focused on something other than the fact the team has no clear direction forward until the value of all those future picks becomes clearer.






 I'm with Pho Shizil here. Just trade Thomas and Sullinger and loose some games. Come back with two top ten picks and sign someone good.

 Then we might have a future.

Oh c'mon Pho, and KGLL. You guys are better than that.

Do the Brooklyn picks have a HUGE influence on what happens to our team in the future? Absolutely, no doubt. But to say that everything we do this season is just "pageantry" and means nothing in the long term picture is ridiculous. This team has an excellent defensive DNA and the culture of hard work around this team is a MAJOR part of the future. Sullinger breaking out the way he has is big for us, whether we keep him or trade him, he looks like a much improved player. Bradley taking the leap he has is big, he was already one of our leaders and a guy with pretty high trade value, he's one of the guys that sets the tone for this team. Smart's continued development is of major importance for the future, and while he's been inconsistent on the offensive end he looks like a future DPOY candidate on that side of the ball.

Thomas looks like a legit all-star. Crowder is out of place starting, but he's cemented himself as key to both our defense and over-all mind set. Lee is gaining trade value. All of these things mean A LOT to our future. Let's just say we land Ben Simmons. Would you rather he come into the environment we've already established here, where Stevens can mold him into the driving force of our already pretty dang good team, or on a team like Philly where the losing is a constant force of discouragement?

No, the Brooklyn picks may turn out to be the biggest piece of the puzzle, and we need them to be as high as possible, but the things happening on this team this season, both good and bad, play a major part of what happens from here on out. How many teams in the NBA have a roster full of guys under 27 who could very well win 45-50 games AND have three likely lottery picks (with at least one being a likely top 5-7) coming on top of a boatload of more picks, young prospects, cap space and a top-10 NBA coach who's established a culture of defense, hard work and effort plus one of the leagues shrewdest GM's and best ownership groups.

Were very lucky to be in as good a position as we are right now for the future, some other teams have had a few higher picks (Philly, Sacramento, etc.) but they don't have all the other things we have that people don't realize are of tremendous importance to building a legit contender. It's fine to highlight how potentially valuable the Brooklyn picks are, but to say the things we've been doing the past two years don't matter is just disrespectful to these guys. Totally ridiculous.

Yay!!!

Preach!!! And somebody give this man his wings, please.
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2015, 12:02:10 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The Celts rode their starting unit to a win tonight against a solid opponent.  Maybe Brad listened to Crowder.  :)


And I appreciate the post from BDeCosta above.  It's a really nice way to look at this season.  It really is.  This team will give us things to feel good about.  And there will be nights where we throw our hands up and go, "What the ?!" like we did after that Orlando game.


Nonetheless, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I like a lot of the players we've got on this team.  I made a post earlier today suggesting we might have a team that's one player away from being a contender if Ainge just adds a couple of above average starters to the mix next summer.

At the end of the day, though, the direction of this rebuild hinges on getting that one really amazing piece, and the draft lottery is going to be our second really good chance in this rebuild process, after the draft lottery in 2014, to secure one.

We could shuffle through every single "nice" piece we currently have before we find that one really amazing piece.  Or we might get that guy sometime over the next three years thanks to Brooklyn.  Or maybe Ainge will swing a trade for Cousins or something.  We'll see. 


I'm not advocating for the team to tank, though, so I don't agree with KG LL's quoted response.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2015, 12:42:00 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/11/jae_crowder_wants_boston_celti.html

I found this article interesting, because it echoes what many of us on here have been saying ever since last year.
It's rarely a good thing to have too many players.  This is a team set up for a trade.  Lots of parity all over the roster.  Our team got it together last year when injuries and trades forced defined roles.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2015, 12:58:22 AM »

Offline ssspence

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http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/11/jae_crowder_wants_boston_celti.html

I found this article interesting, because it echoes what many of us on here have been saying ever since last year.
It's rarely a good thing to have too many players.  This is a team set up for a trade.  Lots of parity all over the roster.  Our team got it together last year when injuries and trades forced defined roles.

That's fine, but folks need to stop dreaming about getting value for packages filled with Kellys, Tylers, and Evans.

I'd be very happy to see a guy like OJ Mayo acquired for 2 of our garbage role players. I just don't see a lot of interesting options on the market for meaningful players. I predict this will be a fairly quiet trading year.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2015, 01:00:17 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/11/jae_crowder_wants_boston_celti.html

I found this article interesting, because it echoes what many of us on here have been saying ever since last year.
It's rarely a good thing to have too many players.  This is a team set up for a trade.  Lots of parity all over the roster.  Our team got it together last year when injuries and trades forced defined roles.

That's fine, but folks need to stop dreaming about getting value for packages filled with Kellys, Tylers, and Evans.

I'd be very happy to see a guy like OJ Mayo acquired for 2 of our garbage role players. I just don't see a lot of interesting options on the market for meaningful players. I predict this will be a fairly quiet trading year.

I'd rather keep the "garbage" role players than trade for O.J Mayo.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2015, 01:49:41 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/11/jae_crowder_wants_boston_celti.html

I found this article interesting, because it echoes what many of us on here have been saying ever since last year.
It's rarely a good thing to have too many players.  This is a team set up for a trade.  Lots of parity all over the roster.  Our team got it together last year when injuries and trades forced defined roles.

That's fine, but folks need to stop dreaming about getting value for packages filled with Kellys, Tylers, and Evans.

I'd be very happy to see a guy like OJ Mayo acquired for 2 of our garbage role players. I just don't see a lot of interesting options on the market for meaningful players. I predict this will be a fairly quiet trading year.
I'm all for showcasing everyone with hopes of driving up their trade value and moving them.. but when you showcase everyone, you are limiting everyone to like 20 minutes per game... it's hard for anyone to stand out. 

Interesting that tonight they played guys starter minutes and they all flourished with their standard NBA minutes.

Amir - 33 minutes - 13 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks and 1 steal.   
Crowder, 32 minutes, 13 points, 5 rebounds, 4 steals, 1 assist. 
Sullinger - 34 minutes 17 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal.   
Bradley, 39 minutes - 25 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 1 block
Thomas,  32 minutes 16 points, 9 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal.   
Turner - 32 minutes, 13 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals.     

When you give guys minutes, they get stats.   Of course, this left Lee, Jerebko, Oly, and Zeller on the outside looking in... could hurt their trade value... but if they keep playing a top six 30+ minutes, it will drive up the value of those 6.   

Before tonight they only had a single player averaging over 30 minutes (Thomas with 30.7)... 6 other guys averaging 22-29 minutes... four other guys averaging double digit minutes.   It's cute, but it doesn't generally work in the NBA.  You can't just play 11 guys randomly every night with equal minutes.   These guys are pros and need to know when they are playing so they can build chemistry.   This isn't a new thing... it's like we've learned this lesson four years in a row.

In Brad's defense, it's well known that his staff is all about advanced statistical analysis.  There seems to be a pattern where early in the season they throw out every combo they can and try to get as much data as possible so they can figure out which combos work the best.   Maybe they finally figured it out.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2015, 02:59:14 AM »

Online jpotter33

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http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/11/jae_crowder_wants_boston_celti.html

I found this article interesting, because it echoes what many of us on here have been saying ever since last year.
It's rarely a good thing to have too many players.  This is a team set up for a trade.  Lots of parity all over the roster.  Our team got it together last year when injuries and trades forced defined roles.

That's fine, but folks need to stop dreaming about getting value for packages filled with Kellys, Tylers, and Evans.

I'd be very happy to see a guy like OJ Mayo acquired for 2 of our garbage role players. I just don't see a lot of interesting options on the market for meaningful players. I predict this will be a fairly quiet trading year.
I'm all for showcasing everyone with hopes of driving up their trade value and moving them.. but when you showcase everyone, you are limiting everyone to like 20 minutes per game... it's hard for anyone to stand out. 

Interesting that tonight they played guys starter minutes and they all flourished with their standard NBA minutes.

Amir - 33 minutes - 13 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks and 1 steal.   
Crowder, 32 minutes, 13 points, 5 rebounds, 4 steals, 1 assist. 
Sullinger - 34 minutes 17 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal.   
Bradley, 39 minutes - 25 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 1 block
Thomas,  32 minutes 16 points, 9 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal.   
Turner - 32 minutes, 13 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals.     

When you give guys minutes, they get stats.   Of course, this left Lee, Jerebko, Oly, and Zeller on the outside looking in... could hurt their trade value... but if they keep playing a top six 30+ minutes, it will drive up the value of those 6.   

Before tonight they only had a single player averaging over 30 minutes (Thomas with 30.7)... 6 other guys averaging 22-29 minutes... four other guys averaging double digit minutes.   It's cute, but it doesn't generally work in the NBA.  You can't just play 11 guys randomly every night with equal minutes.   These guys are pros and need to know when they are playing so they can build chemistry.   This isn't a new thing... it's like we've learned this lesson four years in a row.

In Brad's defense, it's well known that his staff is all about advanced statistical analysis.  There seems to be a pattern where early in the season they throw out every combo they can and try to get as much data as possible so they can figure out which combos work the best.   Maybe they finally figured it out.

I liked the minutes distribution tonight. IT, Bradley, Smart, Crowder, Turner, Sully, and Amir should all get heavy minutes with KO, Lee, and JJ getting in there just enough to give them a good breather and rest. The team looked much more comfortable with much better chemistry playing big minutes with each other, and hopefully it's something we see more of. I know the benefit of having depth is the ability to create mismatches and adjust to lineups, but it honestly just has not worked out well for us the last two years. We've played the best when we went small and gave eight or so guys big minutes.

Re: Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2015, 07:39:19 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Crowder is wrong in the sense that I think the team has an identity. The C's are a starless team who force a lot of turnovers, play physical, and will make you work on every possession. The anti-Rockets, if you will.

However, he is right in that there needs to be set rotations. Even role players know they'll get a set amount of time every night. For example, Danny Green hasn't exactly shot the ball well this year for the Spurs, but he knows that he's not about to lose his starting job or his minutes to Ginobili (who needs rest) or another bench player like Kyle Anderson or whoever. Now, an occasional benching is fine, kinda like what Skiles is doing for the Magic. But still, you know that the Magic are still going to play guys like Vucevic and Payton big minutes the next game.

If I had to settle on a rotation (assuming we're healthy), it would more or less be something like:

IT4 - 35 mpg
Smart - 30 mpg
Crowder - 32 mpg
Sully - 30 mpg
Amir - 32 mpg

Bradley comes off the bench but still gets 31mpg (Smart moves to PG)
ET backs up Crowder - 22 mpg
KO backs up both bigs (with Crowder occasionally sliding to play PF) - 28 mpg

Lee, Zeller or Jerebko can still get spot minutes now and then, depending on the match up or foul situation, but that's how I'd generally distribute the minutes.

- LilRip