Crowder says team needs identity, set rotations

[sed522002]

IT sharing Crowder's sentiment:

“It’s a strength and it could be a weakness just because coach knows we have a lot of guys, and he wants to give everybody an opportunity, which you should,” Thomas said.“But at the same time, when it’s winning time, put your best five out there.

“Not putting anything towards coach. He’s doing a great job. It’s just, as players, we’ve got to separate ourselves.”

Who would you pick as our 5 best (currently)?

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2015/11/celtics_notebook_roiling_rotation_causing_some_issues

[trickybilly]

Crowder needs to stop complaining.  Score 30 and carry the team on your back then

Has he ever attempted 20 field goals?

He does go missing on O at times, but only when plays break down which has nern happening a lot lately.

He is not wrong, no, but its hard to see what the comment achieves other than venting frustration..

[wiley]

I'm not sure about this.  I think Brad has a method that I'm willing
to trust.  If we had a star who wasn't playing enough minutes I'd agree
and say get that guy in.  But I think part of the reason Sully is able
to be so aggressive lately is that he's getting some good rest.  Kelly is a guy
I'd like to leave out there longer, but not if he insist on being passive
for 2 1/2 quarters. 

So I would say to the guys, prove it.  Prove you shouldn't be taken out.

Also, more than a rotation fix I'd say the team needs Smart back.

[littleteapot]

We're playing pretty well for a team with no identity.

[ssspence]

Crowder's right: while it's neat that we have a 'deep' 15, or best 5 is mediocre.

And Stevens is right: a team like Orlando is just plain better right now. Their talent -- largely selected at the top of the lottery -- is superior at the front of the rotation. The Cs need to execute at an A+ level to beat the top 20 teams in the league, on most nights. 

[Tr1boy]

Crowder needs to stop complaining.  Score 30 and carry the team on your back then

Has he ever attempted 20 field goals?

He does go missing on O at times, but only when plays break down which has nern happening a lot lately.

He is not wrong, no, but its hard to see what the comment achieves other than venting frustration..

He just needs to not talk and criticize. He is a solid bench player. That's it

-Not having smart is big.

-Danny should trade one or both of Sullinger/Zeller already.   To decrease distractions/solidify the rotation. The issue is congestion upfront. Though knowing Danny he is probably waiting for some kind of mega trade situtaion before making any kind of moves

[Celtics18]

Crowder's not wrong.

He's not right either.

Fascinating post!

Thanks.  Your's was mind-blowing as well.

I guess I should clarify, though, since I've been called out.  I just mean that I don't particularly like it when players start taking this kind of thing to the media.  It strikes me as obnoxious.

I trust this team enough and I trust Brad Stevens and his staff enough for this not to become a big deal.  Still, I don't like it.

See how easy that was?

Players speaking up doesn't bother me, if they're not throwing anybody in particular under the bus.  Crowder wasn't doing that.

I think he has a valid point.  In theory, taking full advantage of depth and having the guys on the floor give you 100% all the time sounds good.  In practice, you've got a group of human beings who are going to struggle to execute that plan, especially when they don't go into any particular game knowing for sure what kind of minutes they are going to play, how many shots they're going to get, or even what position they'll spend most of their time at.

Most likely, that's just the team the Celts are right now. Brad is making the most of the one really notable strength his team has.  Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't.  Some nights it's a lot of fun, some nights it's a mess.  When it's a mess, it's a frustrating reminder of how far this team really is from having a blueprint for the future.

I agree with the bolded part.  Depth is one of this team's strengths.  To maximize that strength, it's going to take a coach who is willing to experiment some, to try some different lineups to try to take advantage of match up opportunities.

I also agree that this approach isn't always going to look pretty.  But, in my opinion, it does represent our best bet to stay competitive.

For it to work, though, everybody has to buy in.  I know this sounds like a cliche, and it is, but it's also true.  The coach isn't going to be infallible, but he needs everybody on board with what he's doing.  I don't think a reasonable amount of questioning the plan among the players when things aren't going at their best is necessarily a bad thing.  But it shouldn't be done out loud.  A guy like Jae Crowder, who is clearly a leader, doesn't need to do this kind of thing.  He doesn't need to open the door to the possibility of fracture. 

I still have faith that Stevens, and the team, will pull through this.  I don't think it's a good look, though.  A good win tonight against another quality opponent would go a long way towards making everything right. 

[PhoSita]

And Stevens is right: a team like Orlando is just plain better right now. Their talent -- largely selected at the top of the lottery -- is superior at the front of the rotation.

I really would love to see what Brad Stevens could do with a group of young talents like that. 

Unfortunately to get there you'd have to break out the old "T" word.

[action781]

Putting our "best 5" out there and finding an identity to stick with on a roster that doesn't have a clear identity to choose will yield mediocre at best results, development of only those few select 5 plus a couple players (who might not all be our ones in most need of development), and will probably create internal problems of players not feeling like they get playing time they deserve rather than healthy competitiveness (which could be unhealthy of course if not fostered properly).

I understand why Crowder and IT feel like this in the moment.  But I disagree with them when trying to think about the situation long-term and holistically.

[Csfan1984]

This is absolutely on the players and not the coaching. How can anyone agree on the best five when every player on the roster struggles with consistency. No player on this team can be counted on down the stretch. So you want BS to do what he has been doing which is weigh skills on the roster vs the opponent down the stretch and also take into account the hot players that game. Seriously for players to complain is ridiculous. It's the coach that should be asking DA to get him more better players.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Crowder needs to stop complaining.  Score 30 and carry the team on your back then

Has he ever attempted 20 field goals?

He does go missing on O at times, but only when plays break down which has nern happening a lot lately.

He is not wrong, no, but its hard to see what the comment achieves other than venting frustration..

He just needs to not talk and criticize. He is a solid bench player. That's it

-Not having smart is big.

-Danny should trade one or both of Sullinger/Zeller already.   To decrease distractions/solidify the rotation. The issue is congestion upfront. Though knowing Danny he is probably waiting for some kind of mega trade situtaion before making any kind of moves

Or Kelly Olynyk, or David Lee, or Amir Johnson...

[LooseCannon]

If Stevens had set rotations, people would complain whenever they think he is sticking to set rotations instead of riding the hot hand.  Maybe he should go for some five-for-five all-bench lineups.

The Celtics don't have the sort of talent that forces the other team to react and have to adjust their strategy.  The Celtics have a coach with a nice roster for making adjustments against other teams.

[34truth]

Why the hell would tell that to the media? This is just so imature.. Jae Crowder must think he's the scond coming of Paul Pierce. Can't believe a bench player would say that about a coach that believed him enough to put him in a great position to succeed time and time again

[34truth]

Cant believe people arent making a much bigger deal about this. Stevens got bashed badly

[KG Living Legend]

The only events happening on an NBA court this season that really matter for the future of this Celtics franchise are those that occur while the Brooklyn Nets are playing.

This iteration of the Celts might win our hearts again like last year's team, or they might just flounder and remain very up and down, on the way to another 7th or 8th seed playoff appearance and first round exit. 

It's just a pageant to keep us entertained and focused on something other than the fact the team has no clear direction forward until the value of all those future picks becomes clearer.

 I'm with Pho Shizil here. Just trade Thomas and Sullinger and loose some games. Come back with two top ten picks and sign someone good.

 Then we might have a future.