Tommy was kind of right

[SHAQATTACK]

I'd take Aaron Gordon over any of our young guys right now.

It's been very discouraging seeing a lot of these other 2014 guys blossoming (Gordon -- even in limited minutes, Lavine, Randle, Clarkson, etc) while Smart has mostly struggled and now is injured.

I've defended Smart a lot, but I'm beginning to worry about that pick.

Gordon was picked before Smart, so where's the counterfactual?  Same with Clarkson, there's no way any team in the league is taking him 6. 

It's very fair to say that Smart has shown some major flaws but had some flashes of excellence, and that he keeps getting hurt too often to really confirm which one's closer to his long-term future.  I think we'll have a clearer sense of how to feel about Smart when he learns to stop playing like a wrecking ball and can stay healthy for extended stretches.

I know Gordon was taken before Smart, it's just that I'm seeing a lot of players from that draft blossoming and starting to look like nice players, while I still have many of the same concerns about Smart that I had this time last year.

Like I said, I've defended Smart many times, and I still think there's plenty of room for optimism about him.  I'm just worried, looking around at the other second year players, that the Celts might not have come away with one of the better all-around talents in that draft despite the high draft pick.

Doesn't help that Young does not seem to be any closer to earning a rotation spot.

I hear you... some good players developing

Just looking at basic stats (points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks ... subtract missed shots and turnovers) the rankings for second year players are

#1 Julius Randle
#2 Andrew Wiggins
#3 Clint Capela
#4 Dwight Powell
#5 Zach LaVine
#6 Jordan Clarkson
#7 Nikola Mirotic
#8 Elfrid Payton
#9 Nerlens Noel
#10 TJ Warren
#11 Rodney Hood
#12 Jerami Grant
#13 Aaron Gordon
#14 Nilola Jokic
#15 Marcus Smart
#16 Gary Harris
#17 Jabari Parker
#18 Doug McDermott
#19 Nik Stauskas
#20 Bojan Bogdanovic

... That's just raw stats, though.  Smart is hurt by his atrocious shooting.  He obviously makes a major impact as a defensive role player.  Also, I think some of the guys on that list are being called second year players even though they weren't taken in the 2014 draft (like Noel and Mirotic... both of which have struggled early this season despite being top 3 rookies last season).

If you sort them by per minute production (filtering only players averaging at least 15 minutes), Smart is #18 out of 24 players.    He's having a rough start statistically.  There's at least some reason to be concerned... especially with the injuries.  It's not like every prospect develops into a star just because they are wearing Celtic jerseys.  Smart still seems he could develop into a defensive role player like Tony Allen, but I am still holding out hope he'll have more offensive game.

Problem with a list like this is its just based on stats .   Which I hate.

Most are one trick ponies .   Good at one thing ....

Smart has hit or been in several prime clutch plays to win the game for his team ....the amount of leadership , overall IQ ....blows away nearly everybody on the list .

I like everything else he does ......because other than CP3 , Parker , Etc....nobody else does the same type of court presence he has .  He is amazing for a guy so new .

People look for Ray Allen and Kobe types too much . 

[Celtics18]

It'd be nice if we could look at Marcus Smart a month into his sophomore season and say he was guaranteed to be a superstar for the next decade and a half.

------

Smart is still a top prospect from the 2014 draft class.  I figure everyone knows that.  Only a few overly fretful Celtics fans seem to doubt that at this point.

Sure, everybody would love to be able to say he was guaranteed to be a superstar for a decade and a half.


The fact that we can't do that isn't the basis of the concern being expressed here, though.



For me, Smart has shown me enough to give me optimism about his potential as an above average starter, maybe even a borderline All-Star caliber player.

But every young player has to reach a point where they stop just showing flashes here and there and actually start putting together an extended run of games where they show you what their ceiling might me.


There are plenty of things Smart has done consistently over time -- play great defense, force turnovers, show confidence taking shots from outside, keep the ball moving, make smart plays, hustle his butt off.  Every one of those things he does are really nice attributes to have in a player.  I'm glad he's on the team, and the Celts are significantly better with him than without him.  It's hard to find too many first or second year players you can say that about.

All of that said, what's the best month he's put together so far?

Probably April of last season, where he put up 8.3 points, 2.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists, and 2.1 steals on 42 / 32 / 50 shooting in 30 minutes a game.  He was +12.4 in that month.

What's his signature game?  Maybe that performance against Westbrook and OKC?  Maybe last year against OKC, when he also scored in the mid twenties.   Smart has three 20+ point games in his career so far.


Based on all of that, I guess where I'm at is that I have zero doubt Smart will help teams win for a long time so long as he stays healthy.  I'm just worried about whether he'll ever come close to being a genuine, consistently productive offensive piece, which is what you hope to get when you pick a guy in the top 10.



Then again, the counter here is that you could probably make a similar worried argument about a number of these exciting prospects.  Not many of them have put together a lot of high production performances, and those that do have such performances have mostly done so on teams that weren't playing for anything at the time. 

Following the Celts so closely and placing a lot of hopes on Smart in particular means being able to see the flaws a lot more clearly in this case.

Bingo!

[PhoSita]

It'd be nice if we could look at Marcus Smart a month into his sophomore season and say he was guaranteed to be a superstar for the next decade and a half.

------

Smart is still a top prospect from the 2014 draft class.  I figure everyone knows that.  Only a few overly fretful Celtics fans seem to doubt that at this point.

Sure, everybody would love to be able to say he was guaranteed to be a superstar for a decade and a half.


The fact that we can't do that isn't the basis of the concern being expressed here, though.



For me, Smart has shown me enough to give me optimism about his potential as an above average starter, maybe even a borderline All-Star caliber player.

But every young player has to reach a point where they stop just showing flashes here and there and actually start putting together an extended run of games where they show you what their ceiling might me.


There are plenty of things Smart has done consistently over time -- play great defense, force turnovers, show confidence taking shots from outside, keep the ball moving, make smart plays, hustle his butt off.  Every one of those things he does are really nice attributes to have in a player.  I'm glad he's on the team, and the Celts are significantly better with him than without him.  It's hard to find too many first or second year players you can say that about.

All of that said, what's the best month he's put together so far?

Probably April of last season, where he put up 8.3 points, 2.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists, and 2.1 steals on 42 / 32 / 50 shooting in 30 minutes a game.  He was +12.4 in that month.

What's his signature game?  Maybe that performance against Westbrook and OKC?  Maybe last year against OKC, when he also scored in the mid twenties.   Smart has three 20+ point games in his career so far.


Based on all of that, I guess where I'm at is that I have zero doubt Smart will help teams win for a long time so long as he stays healthy.  I'm just worried about whether he'll ever come close to being a genuine, consistently productive offensive piece, which is what you hope to get when you pick a guy in the top 10.



Then again, the counter here is that you could probably make a similar worried argument about a number of these exciting prospects.  Not many of them have put together a lot of high production performances, and those that do have such performances have mostly done so on teams that weren't playing for anything at the time. 

Following the Celts so closely and placing a lot of hopes on Smart in particular means being able to see the flaws a lot more clearly in this case.

Bingo!

Thing is, that doesn't invalidate any of the stuff I said before.  Seems like you think it does, though.

I suppose that's just your way of looking at these things.

[Celtics18]

It'd be nice if we could look at Marcus Smart a month into his sophomore season and say he was guaranteed to be a superstar for the next decade and a half.

------

Smart is still a top prospect from the 2014 draft class.  I figure everyone knows that.  Only a few overly fretful Celtics fans seem to doubt that at this point.

Sure, everybody would love to be able to say he was guaranteed to be a superstar for a decade and a half.


The fact that we can't do that isn't the basis of the concern being expressed here, though.



For me, Smart has shown me enough to give me optimism about his potential as an above average starter, maybe even a borderline All-Star caliber player.

But every young player has to reach a point where they stop just showing flashes here and there and actually start putting together an extended run of games where they show you what their ceiling might me.


There are plenty of things Smart has done consistently over time -- play great defense, force turnovers, show confidence taking shots from outside, keep the ball moving, make smart plays, hustle his butt off.  Every one of those things he does are really nice attributes to have in a player.  I'm glad he's on the team, and the Celts are significantly better with him than without him.  It's hard to find too many first or second year players you can say that about.

All of that said, what's the best month he's put together so far?

Probably April of last season, where he put up 8.3 points, 2.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists, and 2.1 steals on 42 / 32 / 50 shooting in 30 minutes a game.  He was +12.4 in that month.

What's his signature game?  Maybe that performance against Westbrook and OKC?  Maybe last year against OKC, when he also scored in the mid twenties.   Smart has three 20+ point games in his career so far.


Based on all of that, I guess where I'm at is that I have zero doubt Smart will help teams win for a long time so long as he stays healthy.  I'm just worried about whether he'll ever come close to being a genuine, consistently productive offensive piece, which is what you hope to get when you pick a guy in the top 10.



Then again, the counter here is that you could probably make a similar worried argument about a number of these exciting prospects.  Not many of them have put together a lot of high production performances, and those that do have such performances have mostly done so on teams that weren't playing for anything at the time. 

Following the Celts so closely and placing a lot of hopes on Smart in particular means being able to see the flaws a lot more clearly in this case.

Bingo!

Thing is, that doesn't invalidate any of the stuff I said before.  Seems like you think it does, though.

I suppose that's just your way of looking at these things.

It doesn't invalidate what you've said before.  I admit that I have an instinct for "homerism."  It's refreshing that you seem to be acknowledging that you have an instinct for seeing the worst case scenario.

There's nothing inherently "wrong" with either point of view. 

 

[mef730]

I'm in a space right now where I hate all of our young prospects.

Smart: why the **** can you not score more and why the **** are you always injured.

Young: SMH

Rozier: We took this guy over RHJ? Really?

RJ Hunter: "Sharpshooter." Can't shoot.

Mickey: Will never see the court barring some mass food-poisoning outbreak.

I'm going to assume this is just because I'm irrationally depressed at how poorly the Celtics have been playing for the last couple of weeks.

Smart: It's harder to judge defense than offense, particularly if you are looking at stats.

Young: SMHSHIFOTF (shaking my head so hard it falls on the floor)

Rozier: Agree on RHJ. The opinion around here, though, at the time of the draft was, "oh, great, another defensive all-star who can't shoot. Just what we need..."

RJ: Still, it's nice to have someone who can find the basket.

Mickey: I'd really like to see him play a bit more. Pre-season was an appetizer. Would like to try the entree.

James Young is the biggest disappointment. How a guy like that is letting his opportunity slip by is beyond me...

Mike

[rollie mass]

what if smart was playing on a team with a rim protector
i don't think there has  been as good a defencive player as a rookie or 2nd year man for quite awhile-
injury prone or does he suffer catastrophic injuries due to his style of play and body strength-dislocated fingers and now a knee-