Author Topic: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?  (Read 1264 times)

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Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« on: November 25, 2015, 03:21:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I actually have no idea why the earlier thread from a couple weeks ago about Orlando was locked.  I do think still feel like it's a very interesting team, though... and with recent news that their "star" Victor Oladipio is being moved to the bench, I can't think of a better team to be talking about right now in this "Around the NBA" sub-forum.  Here's a recap of what I said in the earlier thread:

Quote
Here's the TL;DR up front:  Orlando's two best prospects with the most long-term potential are currently on their bench... and the 5 guys starting over them are all quality young players/assets as well.

I'm intrigued by the Magic.  They are loaded with quality individual young pieces, but have a mediocre record.   I'm wondering what people think will end up happening there.  First, let's take a look at the players I'm talking about.

PG - Elfrid Payton - Some fans love this guy.  He's possibly the second coming of Rondo.  By that, I mean he's probably capable of putting up huge stats if he dominates the ball, but the kid can't shoot.  He's 21 years old... averaged 9 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds and a couple steals last year in 30mpg.  His rookie per-36 numbers were pretty similar to Rondo in his prime (remember that Rondo was playing 37-42 minutes per night and dominating the ball).   Seems without a shot, he'd struggle in an offense that doesn't require the ball to flow through him.

PG/Undersized SG - Victor Oladipo - 23 years old - 6'4 210 pounds. Seen as the young star of the team.  Optimists call him the next D-Wade.  To me he seems more like the next Kemba Walker.  He's shooting 38%/26% from three and controls the ball perhaps a bit more than he should.  Good numbers last year of 18 points, 4 assists, 4 rebounds and 1.7 steals on 44%/34%/82% shooting.  He's struggled a bit so far this year... maybe he breaks out... maybe not.  I personally wouldn't buy Oladipo stock right now.  Some Orlando fans seem him as the cancer of the team holding them back.  I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see Oladipo as the odd man out based on the rest of the roster.

SG/SF - Evan Fournier - 23 years old 6'7 205 pounds.   WHat's up with this kid?  Is he a long-term starter?  I thought this was a fluke, but he had solid numbers last year (12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists on 44%/38%/73% shooting).  This year he's looking fantastic... 19 points, 4 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.2 steals 46%/38%/79%.   Some Orlando fans are p---ed he's starting over Aaron Gordon, but how can you argue with those stats.  He's leading the team in scoring early on and doing it efficiently.  Coach Skiles giving him 38mpg seems a bit extreme, but he obviously likes the kid.  Another Khris Middleton type?

SF - Tobias Harris - 23 years old 6'9 235 pounds.   A quality young player that a lot of teams (Boston included) wanted this offseason.  Orlando locked him up for 4 years 64 mil, but I still wouldn't be surprised to see him traded (perhaps even to Boston).  He got paid, the team got some leverage, but I'm not sure Orlando is his final destination.   There's no hint of a potential Harris trade from the Orlando fan community, though.  They seem to really like the guy.  Last year:  17 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal on 47%/36%/79% shooting.   This year it's been more of the same (15 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists), though his minutes are down a bit to 32mpg.

C - Nikola Vucevic - 25 years old 7 feet 260 pounds.   19 points, 11 rebounds and 2 asissts last year on 52%/75% shooting.   Ths year, more of the same (16.1 points, 8 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 2 blocks).    He's a quality young center, though his defense is a bit limited.  Does that make him an Enes Kanter type who would come off the bench on a team that valued defense?  He's got a 4 year 48 million dollar contract and seems like the ideal centerpiece of a trade for Cousins if Sac makes him available.

... then off the bench they have

SG/SF - Mario Hezonja -  20 years old 6'8 218 pounds.  I don't know much about this kid, but some people rave about him.  He was the #5 pick.  Bill SImmons is convinced he's a Rookie of the Year candidate, but I don't see where his minutes will come from this year.   He hasn't had much of an opportunity yet and is obviously still making the transition to the NBA.  14mpg only averaging 5ppg. Last 5 games he's showed brief glimpses... 7 points on 41%/39%/100% shooting in 14mpg.   

SF/PF - Aaron Gordon - 20 years old 6'9 220 pounds.   Orlando fans are livid he's not starting.  He looked vastly improved this summer, dominated summer league, and has been fantastic in the minutes he's played this year.  Per-36 numbers of 16 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks.   Second highest PER on the team behind Vucevic.  Does he slot in as a PF?  A SF?  I think he could end up being the best player on that entire team.  He'll inevitably start... but despite the anguish of Magic fans, who would you bench for him right now?  Would you move FOurnier to the bench while he's playing this well?   


So what do you think happens there?  Gordon/Hezonja are just kids.  I mean, Gordon just turned 20 a couple months ago.  They will likely continue to come off the bench for now and then maybe at some point if one of them plays into the starting lineup you'll just see one of the starters end up on the bench... similar to what might be happening with Avery Bradley here despite him getting paid.

I could also definitely see someone like ELfrid Payton lose his starting role.   A lineup of PG - Oladipo, SG - Fournier, SF - Harris, PF - Gordon, C - Vucevic makes some sense...   Alternatively, I wouldn't be totally stunned to see Oladipo end up in the 6th man "microwave" role.

And of course, I could definitely see a trade made.  Someone like Harris could be moved for future pick assets if Orlando doesn't want to pay him long-term.    And it seems to me if Cousins ends up on the trading block, Orlando is an ideal trade partner.  Vucevic + another player would make a lot of sense.  Vlade/Vivek and the Kings don't seem like the the types that would move their star for the unknown of draft picks... they'd want established talent and Vucevic is a fine starting point.   If ORlando moved 2 or 3 for 1, they'd upgrade to a superstar center and probably kill two birds with one stone by opening up roster spots for one or two of their stud prospects.

What do you think happens there?

Forget about the Cousins stuff... I have a feeling some of that back-and-forth is what got the thread locked.  I'm more interested in what people think of this talent jam they have going there.   I called it two weeks ago that one of the guards could end up on the bench and now it seems we're seeing exactly that.    December 15th is the day that guys who signed new contracts can be traded, right?  Doesn't making a move for Tobias Harris still make a ton of sense?   What else could you see happening?   We seem to talk a lot about Philly on this "Around the NBA" sub-forum...   Noel and Okafor clearly can't play together.  Wouldn't moving one of those bigs for one of Orlando's guards make some sense?   Like, if Orlando offered Vucevic and one of their least desirable guards for Okafor, which team says no? 

 

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 03:31:40 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Amazing to me that Orlando's defensive workhorse and All-American type of guy is the one in Skiles' (erratic) doghouse.

Orlando is a team like us. I don't see them liquidating their assets. They would move, for example, Oladipo, Gordon and their 1st for a legit superstar. I can't see them moving Oladipo for Olynyk, James Young and a 1st. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. All things considered -- current play, age, contract, injury history -- Oladipo could be more appealing than any guard on our roster. Marcus, at the very least, does give him a run for his money, though.

I don't watch the Magic a lot and don't know a ton about Oladipo. How would he fit next to Smart? Obviously they'd be a terror offensively, but there's no way we could be a perimeter-/guard-oriented offense with them starting, for at least a few more years, if ever, right? Considering our guards are considered our strength right now -- and we'd be adding another one -- that would be a concern.


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Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 03:38:38 PM »

Offline FreddieJ

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Come on LarBrd, the Kings are building around Cousins and Vuc isn't that good of a player due his defensive limitations. Skiles limits his minutes accordingly

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 03:41:23 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Like, if Orlando offered Vucevic and one of their least desirable guards for Okafor, which team says no? 
 

So Payton and Vucevic for Okafor? I have to think Philly says no. Okafor is the real deal, so I can't see that happening. Noel is probably the one they trade. The sooner the better too, he's getting exposed pretty quickly as not the star people thought he was going to be.

As for Orlando, this is what happens when you have a bunch of good, but not great, young players. Not enough time for all of them to shine. I like a lot of the individual pieces there, but the fit is very questionable. Gun to my head, I'd say trade Payton and Gordon for something, just not sure what. But those two are really the only ones I don't much care for. Both are way overrated.

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 03:42:01 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Middleton has been struggling as well as his minutes are in decline. The mins he had at SF because of matchups is now non-existent with Parker in the mix. Middleton, Noel, IT, Lawson, Oladipo, and the Brooklyn roster have to be on the block.

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 04:04:08 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Middleton has been struggling as well as his minutes are in decline. The mins he had at SF because of matchups is now non-existent with Parker in the mix. Middleton, Noel, IT, Lawson, Oladipo, and the Brooklyn roster have to be on the block.
Yeah I actually said something similar to that last year when it was believed Embiid was going to get healthy.   It seemed to make sense that if you had a healthy Embiid and Noel (both centers) and the Bucks had a healthy Giannis and Parker (both small forwards) a swap would make some sense.   Middleton is another SF.   Okafor is another center.   Bucks/Philly makes sense as trade partners.

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 04:12:51 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Middleton has been struggling as well as his minutes are in decline. The mins he had at SF because of matchups is now non-existent with Parker in the mix. Middleton, Noel, IT, Lawson, Oladipo, and the Brooklyn roster have to be on the block.
Yeah I actually said something similar to that last year when it was believed Embiid was going to get healthy.   It seemed to make sense that if you had a healthy Embiid and Noel (both centers) and the Bucks had a healthy Giannis and Parker (both small forwards) a swap would make some sense.   Middleton is another SF.   Okafor is another center.   Bucks/Philly makes sense as trade partners.

I think Okafor is off the table, so that leaves Noel. I'd imagine Philly would want Giannis, but I can't see Milwaukee doing that. I doubt Philly would have any interest in Middleton, considering the contract, so that leaves Jabari.

I think a Noel for Parker swap would work (Philly might have to include a small additional asset). But does Milwaukee really even want, or need, to trade for an player like Noel with the summer acquisition of Monroe? Okafor/Noel hasn't looked good, and Dummond/Monroe didn't either. So what reason is there to expect Monroe/Noel to look good.

I'm sure Philly would be happy, though, to pair the two Duke boys. Oakford and Parker could be very good for a long time.

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 04:16:56 PM »

Offline Who

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Philly should offer J.Okafor for V.Oladipo and A.Gordon.

PG:
SG: V.Oladipo
SF:
PF: A.Gordon
 C: N.Noel

That is a nice base to build an athletic defensive minded team around.

Orlando would have

PG: E.Payton
SG: M.Hezonja
SF:
PF: T.Harris
 C: J.Okafor

They can use Vucevic to trade for another forward. Tobias Harris is more of a combo forward so Orlando could choose whether to trade Vucevic for another big to play alongside J.Okafor or go small with a new SF to play in a quick lineup with Tobias Harris at PF.

Re: Orlando still a fascinating team. Trade partner?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 04:21:43 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Philly should offer J.Okafor for V.Oladipo and A.Gordon.

PG:
SG: V.Oladipo
SF:
PF: A.Gordon
 C: N.Noel

That is a nice base to build an athletic defensive minded team around.

Orlando would have

PG: E.Payton
SG: M.Hezonja
 F: T.Harris
 F:
 C: J.Okafor

They can use Vucevic to trade for another forward. Either a big to play alongside J.Okafor or a SF to play in a quick lineup with Tobias Harris at PF.

 I just don't see Philly trading Okafor. He's easily already their best player. And while the Philly core you mention would be good defensively, they would be just as equally a train wreck on offense.