To the Commenters who worry about the Celtic's size at most positions

[DefenseWinsChamps]

"I never lose sleep over size," Stevens added. "I lose sleep over speed and skill."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14209124/is-small-ball-dominance-golden-state-blip-trend

This is a great article, and I think we are ahead of the curve on this. Keep getting speed. Keep developing skilled players.

[PhoSita]

A lack of size doesn't seem to hurt as much these days as it once did.  Though I will say, what bothers me most about the Celts' lack of size is not that it's lacking in the frontcourt, but that it is lacking on the wing and at the guard positions.

It seems like the league is skewing more and more toward guys in the 6'3'' to 6'9'' range.  You could build a competitive team almost entirely out of rangy, athletic guys in that height range who can hit an open three, finish inside, and defend the perimeter.

When you're starting a 5'9'' point guard, a 6'2'' shooting guard, and a 6'5'' small forward, that starts to become a problem in certain matchups.

[trickybilly]

This is why Mickey isn't quite cut out to be draymond ... but just as Monroe has a place so will mickey.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

A lack of size doesn't seem to hurt as much these days as it once did.  Though I will say, what bothers me most about the Celts' lack of size is not that it's lacking in the frontcourt, but that it is lacking on the wing and at the guard positions.

It seems like the league is skewing more and more toward guys in the 6'3'' to 6'9'' range.  You could build a competitive team almost entirely out of rangy, athletic guys in that height range who can hit an open three, finish inside, and defend the perimeter.

When you're starting a 5'9'' point guard, a 6'2'' shooting guard, and a 6'5'' small forward, that starts to become a problem in certain matchups.

I don't think Stevens is too worried about it. He consistently switches everything, including guards to forward and bigs. This is something that both the Spurs and the Warriors have done the past couple of years. In playing a harassing and a frantic switching defense, teams have a tough time taking advantage of matchups, and even if they can get the ball to a guy with a good matchup, the Celtics double team the post before the player can do anything.

I continue to see you say that Crowder is 6'5''. According to every measurement i see, he is 6'6.5''. That not bad. And his wingspan is 6'9''.

Also, length is probably more important that height (although they are not mutually exclusive).

Bradley has a 6'7'' wingspan (and used that to block Thad Young the other night). Smart has a 6'9'' wingpsan. Rozier has a 6'8'' wingspan. Hunter has a 6'10.5'' wingspan. Turner is a true 6'7'' with a 6'8'' wingspan. I'm too lazy to put down all of their standing reaches.

I think height can be intimidating, but length (wingspan and standing reach) are more important to actually playing basketball.
 

[The Oracle]

A lack of size doesn't seem to hurt as much these days as it once did.  Though I will say, what bothers me most about the Celts' lack of size is not that it's lacking in the frontcourt, but that it is lacking on the wing and at the guard positions.

It seems like the league is skewing more and more toward guys in the 6'3'' to 6'9'' range.  You could build a competitive team almost entirely out of rangy, athletic guys in that height range who can hit an open three, finish inside, and defend the perimeter.

When you're starting a 5'9'' point guard, a 6'2'' shooting guard, and a 6'5'' small forward, that starts to become a problem in certain matchups.

I don't think Stevens is too worried about it. He consistently switches everything, including guards to forward and bigs. This is something that both the Spurs and the Warriors have done the past couple of years. In playing a harassing and a frantic switching defense, teams have a tough time taking advantage of matchups, and even if they can get the ball to a guy with a good matchup, the Celtics double team the post before the player can do anything.

I continue to see you say that Crowder is 6'5''. According to every measurement i see, he is 6'6.5''. That not bad. And his wingspan is 6'9''.

Also, length is probably more important that height (although they are not mutually exclusive).

Bradley has a 6'7'' wingspan (and used that to block Thad Young the other night). Smart has a 6'9'' wingpsan.

I think height can be intimidating, but length (wingspan and standing reach) are more important to actually playing basketball.
 

I just posted a comment in another thread speaking to this very thing.  The NBA is speeding up dramatically with many teams moving towards pace and space.  Many less mobile big men are going to be exploited and ran right off the floor.

[KeepRondo]

It helps when teams like Golden State has a player who can take 11 threes at a 45 percent clip. There are post players that shoot only slightly better from two.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Agreed Oracle. Bill Simmons was talking about "will" players with "skill."

One blog I read showed that the only correlation between rebounding proficiency in the NBA and a player's athletic ability is strength (not height, length, or jumping).

I think these things together show that a player with strength and will can succeed in the NBA without height, but in the new NBA, that player needs to have the skill to take advantage of mismatches offensively.

ALA Draymond Green, Paul Milsap and to a lesser extend Jae Crowder and Jared Sullinger

I think Smart can be guard version of this, but he had to clean up his shot selection.

Last night I was trying to think of guys in the coming draft that could be this kind of player to, but I really didn't come up with any. Any ideas?

[PhoSita]

A lack of size doesn't seem to hurt as much these days as it once did.  Though I will say, what bothers me most about the Celts' lack of size is not that it's lacking in the frontcourt, but that it is lacking on the wing and at the guard positions.

It seems like the league is skewing more and more toward guys in the 6'3'' to 6'9'' range.  You could build a competitive team almost entirely out of rangy, athletic guys in that height range who can hit an open three, finish inside, and defend the perimeter.

When you're starting a 5'9'' point guard, a 6'2'' shooting guard, and a 6'5'' small forward, that starts to become a problem in certain matchups.

I don't think Stevens is too worried about it. He consistently switches everything, including guards to forward and bigs. This is something that both the Spurs and the Warriors have done the past couple of years. In playing a harassing and a frantic switching defense, teams have a tough time taking advantage of matchups, and even if they can get the ball to a guy with a good matchup, the Celtics double team the post before the player can do anything.

I continue to see you say that Crowder is 6'5''. According to every measurement i see, he is 6'6.5''. That not bad. And his wingspan is 6'9''.

Also, length is probably more important that height (although they are not mutually exclusive).

Bradley has a 6'7'' wingspan (and used that to block Thad Young the other night). Smart has a 6'9'' wingpsan. Rozier has a 6'8'' wingspan. Hunter has a 6'10.5'' wingspan. Turner is a true 6'7'' with a 6'8'' wingspan. I'm too lazy to put down all of their standing reaches.

I think height can be intimidating, but length (wingspan and standing reach) are more important to actually playing basketball.

You're right to point out that wingspan matters, and we have some guys with good wingspan.  It doesn't seem to hurt Crowder too much.

Crowder's height is a bit of a conundrum because I've heard him refer to himself as 6'4'', and he had inconsistent combine measurements.  He's probably "Six six with shoes on" as these things go, which is to say he wears shoes that add more than an inch to his height.

I love Jae's strength and relentless effort.  He's doing an amazing job getting into passing lanes and forcing turnovers this year.  I feel like his lack of height was a problem in the playoffs last year, and has also come into play when we've faced teams with bigger scoring wings (Paul George comes to mind).

Of course, height is not everything.  Turner is taller than Crowder, but he's much less effective defending bigger wings.

Height and physical size (not just length, but bulk) have become a problem against certain opponents, especially veteran guards and wings who know how to take advantage.  Jarrett Jack and Monta Ellis have done it recently playing against Isaiah, and I can remember Joe Johnson and Ray Felton doing it to Avery in the past.  That is the biggest difference between Marcus Smart and Avery.  Smart is a lot harder to push around.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I tend to be more optimistic. On any team, there are always mismatched player because of size, or poor defense. Good coaching tends to be able to hide those players or weirdly turns them into good defenders.

It is no doubt a concern and Stevens substitution patterns reflect that he notices some of those mismatches, but I do think over time that this defensive scheme can every get better.

Also, those mismatches have been concerning, but we still have one of the better defenses in the NBA. If we clean that up, we could have a top 3 defense.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

PhoSita, Also, I think Jerebko is showing that he has the ability to guard long, quick players. He could be a stopper off the bench to spell Crowder.

[DarkAzcura]

Yeah, there will always be matchups that hurt specific teams. A team with huge guards can potentially hurt us (Toronto..), but for the most part, the lack of height has not hurt us. Despite their height, the Celtics had a top 10-12 defense last year and top 5 currently because of their guards and wing players. They aren't perfect, but they are probably the best defensive trio on the perimeter in the NBA by a large extent currently, imo. Their able to get around their shortcomings in a big way. I'm cool with it. IT hasn't hurt us defensively as much as I was worried he would either..

Generally speaking, I actually don't feel like the Celtics are that undersized anymore. A couple years ago when all we had were Sully and Oly, I thought we were very undersized. Now, though? Between Amir, Zeller, Oly, and Sully..even Mickey if he ever plays this year, I'm not really as worried as I was once about being overmatched because of size.

[PhoSita]

I tend to be more optimistic. On any team, there are always mismatched player because of size, or poor defense. Good coaching tends to be able to hide those players or weirdly turns them into good defenders.

It is no doubt a concern and Stevens substitution patterns reflect that he notices some of those mismatches, but I do think over time that this defensive scheme can every get better.

Also, those mismatches have been concerning, but we still have one of the better defenses in the NBA. If we clean that up, we could have a top 3 defense.

I think one of the biggest weaknesses of this defense is one that's not likely to get taken advantage of very often -- there are not very many guys like Brook Lopez out there.

I agree that Jerebko can shore up some of the weaknesses I talked about with Crowder, although I don't think you can lean on him as a legit wing stopper.  He gives Brad another tool to use though.


The lack of size sure seemed like an issue in the playoffs last year when Thompson and Mozgov were beasting the boards and LeBron was barely phased by Crowder and ET.  But a lot of teams had the same problems, including the Warriors.

[KeepRondo]

I tend to be more optimistic. On any team, there are always mismatched player because of size, or poor defense. Good coaching tends to be able to hide those players or weirdly turns them into good defenders.

It is no doubt a concern and Stevens substitution patterns reflect that he notices some of those mismatches, but I do think over time that this defensive scheme can every get better.

Also, those mismatches have been concerning, but we still have one of the better defenses in the NBA. If we clean that up, we could have a top 3 defense.

I think one of the biggest weaknesses of this defense is one that's not likely to get taken advantage of very often -- there are not very many guys like Brook Lopez out there.

I agree that Jerebko can shore up some of the weaknesses I talked about with Crowder, although I don't think you can lean on him as a legit wing stopper.  He gives Brad another tool to use though.


The lack of size sure seemed like an issue in the playoffs last year when Thompson and Mozgov were beasting the boards and LeBron was barely phased by Crowder and ET.  But a lot of teams had the same problems, including the Warriors.

Agreed. I feel like posters on here don't give Lopez enough credit for the season he's having. I saw one poster comment that anyone should be able to score on Lopez because he's slow. But all season I've seen smaller players get swallowed up in the paint against Lopez. And his offensive game from long range twos and post plays has gotten really good. He's easily much better then any of our bigs.

[KG Living Legend]

A lack of size doesn't seem to hurt as much these days as it once did.  Though I will say, what bothers me most about the Celts' lack of size is not that it's lacking in the frontcourt, but that it is lacking on the wing and at the guard positions.

It seems like the league is skewing more and more toward guys in the 6'3'' to 6'9'' range.  You could build a competitive team almost entirely out of rangy, athletic guys in that height range who can hit an open three, finish inside, and defend the perimeter.

When you're starting a 5'9'' point guard, a 6'2'' shooting guard, and a 6'5'' small forward, that starts to become a problem in certain matchups.

I don't think Stevens is too worried about it. He consistently switches everything, including guards to forward and bigs. This is something that both the Spurs and the Warriors have done the past couple of years. In playing a harassing and a frantic switching defense, teams have a tough time taking advantage of matchups, and even if they can get the ball to a guy with a good matchup, the Celtics double team the post before the player can do anything.

I continue to see you say that Crowder is 6'5''. According to every measurement i see, he is 6'6.5''. That not bad. And his wingspan is 6'9''.

Also, length is probably more important that height (although they are not mutually exclusive).

Bradley has a 6'7'' wingspan (and used that to block Thad Young the other night). Smart has a 6'9'' wingpsan. Rozier has a 6'8'' wingspan. Hunter has a 6'10.5'' wingspan. Turner is a true 6'7'' with a 6'8'' wingspan. I'm too lazy to put down all of their standing reaches.

I think height can be intimidating, but length (wingspan and standing reach) are more important to actually playing basketball.

 You are correct on Crowder's wingspan. However he is officially 6'4.75" tall with no shoes at the NBA combine.
 That is the only height that matters. Shoes on heights are ridiculous. 

[Rondo9]

I tend to be more optimistic. On any team, there are always mismatched player because of size, or poor defense. Good coaching tends to be able to hide those players or weirdly turns them into good defenders.

It is no doubt a concern and Stevens substitution patterns reflect that he notices some of those mismatches, but I do think over time that this defensive scheme can every get better.

Also, those mismatches have been concerning, but we still have one of the better defenses in the NBA. If we clean that up, we could have a top 3 defense.

I think one of the biggest weaknesses of this defense is one that's not likely to get taken advantage of very often -- there are not very many guys like Brook Lopez out there.

I agree that Jerebko can shore up some of the weaknesses I talked about with Crowder, although I don't think you can lean on him as a legit wing stopper.  He gives Brad another tool to use though.


The lack of size sure seemed like an issue in the playoffs last year when Thompson and Mozgov were beasting the boards and LeBron was barely phased by Crowder and ET.  But a lot of teams had the same problems, including the Warriors.

Agreed. I feel like posters on here don't give Lopez enough credit for the season he's having. I saw one poster comment that anyone should be able to score on Lopez because he's slow. But all season I've seen smaller players get swallowed up in the paint against Lopez. And his offensive game from long range twos and post plays has gotten really good. He's easily much better then any of our bigs.

Meh, he's still slow and the Nets defense as a whole suffers. (though it's not all his fault)