Author Topic: Big man pairings through 13 games.  (Read 988 times)

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Big man pairings through 13 games.
« on: November 24, 2015, 12:43:12 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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                      Off. Rat.     Def. Rat.     Net Rat.     +/-     Minutes
K.O./Sully         125.5          88.4         +46.2       +29         27
K.O./Jerebko     108.2          84.1         +24.1       +50        103
K.O./Amir           98.6          77.8         +20.8       +22         50
Lee/Sully            94.0          86.2          +7.7         +4          42
Lee/K.O.             93.7          96.4          -2.6          +3          76
Lee/Jerebko       100.2        102.9          -2.7          -4           64
Amir/Sully         103.2        107.4          -4.1          -8          204
Amir/Jerebko       88.4          93.3          -4.9         -11          30
Jerebko/Zeller    100.3        108.0          -7.7          -6           25
Amir/Lee             91.3         102.9         -11.6         -8           24
Lee/Zeller            81.8          96.5         -14.8         -9           31
Jerebko/Sully       94.4        109.2         -14.8         -16          27

  All other pairings have played less than 20 minutes.  There is some overlap with Jerebko playing SF.  Small sample size still but results are pretty much as expected.

Comments:  Amir/Sully combo have been very poor defensively.  Neither are quick enough to defend on the perimeter chasing stretch guys and quicker PF's.  They need to split time at center.  This team as currently constructed likely won't produce a successful starting unit without K.O. in it.

Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 12:47:28 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Amir/Sully combo have been very poor defensively.  Neither are quick enough to defend on the perimeter chasing stretch guys and quicker PF's.
So you're saying that Olynyk is great at defending stretch guys an quicker PFs?  ::)
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 01:04:13 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Amir/Sully combo have been very poor defensively.  Neither are quick enough to defend on the perimeter chasing stretch guys and quicker PF's.
So you're saying that Olynyk is great at defending stretch guys an quicker PFs?  ::)
He without a doubt is more effective at defending them than either Sully or Amir.  Every ounce of data points to this being the case.  His DFG% #'s outside 15ft. as well as beyond the 3 pt. line are very solid and he just flat out covers a lot more ground than either of them.  Amir's data shows he has been effective inside 10 ft. and poor outside.  Sully's shows he has been pretty poor all over the floor.  There has been a major influx of stretch guys as well as extending many other PF's to the 3 pt. line.  Defending the PF position aint nothing like it was even 2 years ago as they are being forced to cover more ground and switch a lot.  Pace and space is going to push a lot of less mobile bigs right off the floor.

Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 01:10:28 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The sample sizes are only really significant for KO / Jerebko and Amir / Sully.

Unsurprisingly, our bench combo has done really well and our starting combo has done poorly.

I'm impressed by just how well the KO / Jerebko duo has done defensively.  Versatility, effort, and quick hands can make a bigger difference than physical ability.
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 01:45:06 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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The sample sizes are only really significant for KO / Jerebko and Amir / Sully.

Unsurprisingly, our bench combo has done really well and our starting combo has done poorly.

I'm impressed by just how well the KO / Jerebko duo has done defensively.  Versatility, effort, and quick hands can make a bigger difference than physical ability.
The K.O./Jerebko pairing was fantastic playing over 200 minutes together last year and posting very much the same #'s.  Sully/K.O. contrary to popular belief has always posted very good #'s.  K.O./Amir should be expected to and have posted very good #'s over a small sample.  If Brad and Danny would just forget about trying to squeeze every asset out of every player they have and drop the agenda K.O. would flourish.

Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 02:25:17 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The sample sizes are only really significant for KO / Jerebko and Amir / Sully.

Unsurprisingly, our bench combo has done really well and our starting combo has done poorly.

I'm impressed by just how well the KO / Jerebko duo has done defensively.  Versatility, effort, and quick hands can make a bigger difference than physical ability.
The K.O./Jerebko pairing was fantastic playing over 200 minutes together last year and posting very much the same #'s.  Sully/K.O. contrary to popular belief has always posted very good #'s.  K.O./Amir should be expected to and have posted very good #'s over a small sample.  If Brad and Danny would just forget about trying to squeeze every asset out of every player they have and drop the agenda K.O. would flourish.
Jerebko has played the VAST majority of his minutes at the SF position this season, so there's that.
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 02:28:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm done waiting for KO to flourish.  He's a versatile bench player who gives you some playmaking, some floor spacing, and all around intelligent and creative play at either big position.  Nice to have a guy like that on the bench.
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 02:45:01 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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I'm done waiting for KO to flourish.  He's a versatile bench player who gives you some playmaking, some floor spacing, and all around intelligent and creative play at either big position.  Nice to have a guy like that on the bench.

That is just it! :D The Celtics have role players.  I think that what we'll experience for the remainder of the year is a Brad Stevens shuffle based upon who is playing well and the match-ups.
I don't know of anyone in the Celtics front court who is head a shoulders above the rest.
With the exception of Amir Johnson, I am concerned about Boston's lack of athleticism in the front court. 
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 03:04:54 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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The sample sizes are only really significant for KO / Jerebko and Amir / Sully.

Unsurprisingly, our bench combo has done really well and our starting combo has done poorly.

I'm impressed by just how well the KO / Jerebko duo has done defensively.  Versatility, effort, and quick hands can make a bigger difference than physical ability.
The K.O./Jerebko pairing was fantastic playing over 200 minutes together last year and posting very much the same #'s.  Sully/K.O. contrary to popular belief has always posted very good #'s.  K.O./Amir should be expected to and have posted very good #'s over a small sample.  If Brad and Danny would just forget about trying to squeeze every asset out of every player they have and drop the agenda K.O. would flourish.
Jerebko has played the VAST majority of his minutes at the SF position this season, so there's that.
Jerebko has not played the vast majority of his minutes at the SF. 

40 min. with Lee/K.O.
11 min. with K.O./Zeller
10 min. with K.O./Amir
7 min. with Amir/Sully
3 min. with Zeller/Mickey
2 min. with Amir/Lee

  Jerebko has played 177 total minutes approximately 73 at SF and 104 at PF.

Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 03:51:46 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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The sample sizes are only really significant for KO / Jerebko and Amir / Sully.

Unsurprisingly, our bench combo has done really well and our starting combo has done poorly.

I'm impressed by just how well the KO / Jerebko duo has done defensively.  Versatility, effort, and quick hands can make a bigger difference than physical ability.
The K.O./Jerebko pairing was fantastic playing over 200 minutes together last year and posting very much the same #'s.  Sully/K.O. contrary to popular belief has always posted very good #'s.  K.O./Amir should be expected to and have posted very good #'s over a small sample.  If Brad and Danny would just forget about trying to squeeze every asset out of every player they have and drop the agenda K.O. would flourish.
Jerebko has played the VAST majority of his minutes at the SF position this season, so there's that.
Jerebko has not played the vast majority of his minutes at the SF. 

40 min. with Lee/K.O.
11 min. with K.O./Zeller
10 min. with K.O./Amir
7 min. with Amir/Sully
3 min. with Zeller/Mickey
2 min. with Amir/Lee

  Jerebko has played 177 total minutes approximately 73 at SF and 104 at PF.
I was suprised by this, I guess his minutes at the 3 stand out more than those at the 4.
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 04:12:32 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Jerebko has not played the vast majority of his minutes at the SF. 

40 min. with Lee/K.O.
11 min. with K.O./Zeller
10 min. with K.O./Amir
7 min. with Amir/Sully
3 min. with Zeller/Mickey
2 min. with Amir/Lee

  Jerebko has played 177 total minutes approximately 73 at SF and 104 at PF.
Sure, I'll give you that. And now, if you do the math -- when paired with Olynyk, he's been the SF for 63 of the 108 minutes. So half of the Jerebko/Olynyk big man pairing is really Lee/Olynyk.
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Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 04:15:41 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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The sample sizes are only really significant for KO / Jerebko and Amir / Sully.

Unsurprisingly, our bench combo has done really well and our starting combo has done poorly.

I'm impressed by just how well the KO / Jerebko duo has done defensively.  Versatility, effort, and quick hands can make a bigger difference than physical ability.
The K.O./Jerebko pairing was fantastic playing over 200 minutes together last year and posting very much the same #'s.  Sully/K.O. contrary to popular belief has always posted very good #'s.  K.O./Amir should be expected to and have posted very good #'s over a small sample.  If Brad and Danny would just forget about trying to squeeze every asset out of every player they have and drop the agenda K.O. would flourish.
Jerebko has played the VAST majority of his minutes at the SF position this season, so there's that.
Jerebko has not played the vast majority of his minutes at the SF. 

40 min. with Lee/K.O.
11 min. with K.O./Zeller
10 min. with K.O./Amir
7 min. with Amir/Sully
3 min. with Zeller/Mickey
2 min. with Amir/Lee

  Jerebko has played 177 total minutes approximately 73 at SF and 104 at PF.
I was suprised by this, I guess his minutes at the 3 stand out more than those at the 4.
His minutes do seem to stand out more at the 3 and I think it's due to him being far less effective playing SF both offensively and defensively.

Re: Big man pairings through 13 games.
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 04:39:47 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Jerebko has not played the vast majority of his minutes at the SF. 

40 min. with Lee/K.O.
11 min. with K.O./Zeller
10 min. with K.O./Amir
7 min. with Amir/Sully
3 min. with Zeller/Mickey
2 min. with Amir/Lee

  Jerebko has played 177 total minutes approximately 73 at SF and 104 at PF.
Sure, I'll give you that. And now, if you do the math -- when paired with Olynyk, he's been the SF for 63 of the 108 minutes. So half of the Jerebko/Olynyk big man pairing is really Lee/Olynyk.
Late last year the Jerebko/K.O. pairing posted a +98 in only 223 minutes almost all of which was him playing PF.  This year to get Jerebko minutes with the glut of bigs the C's have Brad has played him a bunch at SF.  These minutes have not been horrible (looking through the data quickly) but appear to be much less effective than his minutes at PF.

  In 14-15 K.O./Jerebko as C/PF combo was +99 over the final 24 games,  -1 overall with any other big on the floor with them.  Considering that the Celtics only outscored their opponents by 106 points in total over the final 24 games of the year I would say the K.O./Jerebko C/PF combo was a large part of the teams success.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 05:09:15 PM by The Oracle »