Sixers plan being questioned again

[tazzmaniac]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it. 

[Eddie20]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

[KeepRondo]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

[Moranis]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting. 

[KeepRondo]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

[Moranis]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

The Sixers own his rights even if he waits.  This is a money thing not a Sixers things.

[KeepRondo]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

The Sixers own his rights even if he waits.  This is a money thing not a Sixers things.

No no no!! I can no you too. Did you read that the father doesn't want to even talk to Hinkie. Kind of odd that they wouldn't want to at least initiate a relationship with the team who his son is going to play for. They don't trust the sixers.

[KGs Knee]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

The Sixers own his rights even if he waits.  This is a money thing not a Sixers things.

No no no!! I can no you too. Did you read that the father doesn't want to even talk to Hinkie. Kind of odd that they wouldn't want to at least initiate a relationship with the team who his son is going to play for. They don't trust the sixers.

Yeah, I have to think if Saric's right's were owned by most any other team he would be taking a different approach. He still might have stayed in Europe for the money, but I don't think he would be shutting the team out either. Philly has a stink on them they are going to have to reckon with soon.

I could easily believe Saric would have came over if he thought the team that drafted him offered a good situation.

[Moranis]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

The Sixers own his rights even if he waits.  This is a money thing not a Sixers things.

No no no!! I can no you too. Did you read that the father doesn't want to even talk to Hinkie. Kind of odd that they wouldn't want to at least initiate a relationship with the team who his son is going to play for. They don't trust the sixers.

That is because Saric wants to come over and his father doesn't want him to for FINANCIAL reasons.  His father is afraid that Hinkie will convince Dario that he should come over now and not wait and thus remove the fatherly influence.

[KeepRondo]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

The Sixers own his rights even if he waits.  This is a money thing not a Sixers things.

No no no!! I can no you too. Did you read that the father doesn't want to even talk to Hinkie. Kind of odd that they wouldn't want to at least initiate a relationship with the team who his son is going to play for. They don't trust the sixers.

That is because Saric wants to come over and his father doesn't want him to for FINANCIAL reasons.  His father is afraid that Hinkie will convince Dario that he should come over now and not wait and thus remove the fatherly influence.

Of course he's doing that. He doesn't trust the sixers. I would protect my son from Hinkie also.

[Vox_Populi]

"Protect my son from Hinkie." That makes it seem like Sam's a dangerous man.

[Moranis]

Eventually fan support will decline .

It'll be a rough season for them.  But unless they want to try to immediately trade Embiid and Saric for whatever they can get, it makes the most sense to tank right now.   The focus should be on seeing if one of their players like Stauskas, Wroten, or Grant can develop into a real NBA player... while trying their best to develop Noel and Okafor.   Those are the only guys who seem like they will have very productive NBA careers.   The losing will get grating... morale might bottom out.  But this season doesn't matter.

If they are tanking again next year, that's a problem.    Next year they should have Noel, Okafor, maybe a couple rotation guys who made names for themselves, whatever their top projected pick ends up, whatever they get with the Lakers pick if it falls outside of the top 3, Miami's 1st, Oklahoma's 1st, presumably Saric, presumably Embiid...   

That's an insanely young group, but it will represent actual talent (not the d-leaguers making up their roster right now)... Then based on that roster they can decide to make some moves for fit (probably have to move one of Okafor or Noel regardless if Embiid returns), decide who they want to spend their 80ish million in cap space on to fill out the roster.... and probably shift away from tank mode.   It's reasonable that they could look like the Orlando Magic next year.

THey just need to power through this year.   It's going to be ugly by design.   The only risk they run is Noel or Okafor flipping out and forcing Philly's hand to move them before it's time.

It's clearly not a popular opinion around here, but I'd say that Hinkie has done a really fine job following his plan up until this point.  Maybe they initially envisioned 2 years of tanking, but it's been extended.

Step 1:  Recognition that the team wasn't going to compete.  The Bynum gamble had busted.  Standard strategy of trading everyone for draft picks and cap space.

Step 2:   One draft day in June 2013, they go ahead and trade their star PG, Jrue HOliday, for Nerlens NOel (then injured, but seen as the best prospect in the draft) and a future 1st.   I was jealous of this move.  Check the draft thread and you'll see me freaking out about Noel slipping and begging Ainge to trade Rondo for him.   Hinkie made a baller move there... he got a prospect who would likely be better than Holiday in the long run, another top 1st... and was setting his team up for tanking.  It ensured a top pick in 2014.  Kinda like getting 3 for 1.

Step 3:  Injured Embiid slips to #3.  Obvious choice as he was seen as "by far" the best prospect when healthy leading up to the draft.  They could have traded down and taken Smart + additional assets.  They likely tried trading up to get Wiggins, Parker.  But with Embiid as the option, it once again made the most sense to extend the tank another season.  With the draft pick they got in the Holiday/Noel deal, they selected Elfrid Payton with the #10 pick.   Since tanking made the most sense, they traded Payton for Dario Saric (taken #12) and a future 2nd and 1st.   Bad move?  Would they have been better off taking Aaron Gordon at #3 and keeping Payton at #10?  Perhaps... but they wanted to bottom out again and keep the asset train going.  It was bold, but I understand it.


Step 4:  By design, they had no hope in competing in 2014.  Just to be sure, they traded away their highly overrated "star PG", Michael Carter Williams, for a future 1st from the Lakers.   That pick will convey this year if it falls outside the Top 3... otherwise it's unprotected next year.   Once again, intentionally setting the team up for failure.    Instead of having Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton and MCW, they pushed all assets out a year by having Embiid, Saric and the Lakers pick.


Step 5:  They may have felt this year was the one they were going to compete finally.  Embiid was on his way back.  Saric was probably coming from overseas.  The lakers pick would have conveyed if it fell outside the top 7.   They had cap space and were going to offer max deals to guys like Tobias Harris.   They expected DeAngelo Russell to be their pick at #3... they would have had an interesting lineup of Russell, Saric, who they took with the Laker pick, Noel and Embiid, then whoever they spent money on (harris?).   Embiid's need for a bone graft threw a wrench in it.  Saric was staying overseas another year.   I think the team reluctantly decided to push out the tank one final season.   Luckily, Okafor fell to them at #3.  Would they rather have Russell right now?  Probably not.    Okafor is a legit 20/10 candidate... widely seen as the best prospect for much of the year until Towns lapped him.   Are people going to claim they messed up by passing on Kristaps for Okafor?  C'mon...   That's silly.     They likely could have traded one of Okafor or Noel on draft day for an impact guard prospect like Marcus Smart, but why even bother?   Give those guys 30+ minutes per night, let the team bottom out, and try again next year. 

So maybe they could have done things slightly differently, but unless you're being thick, you have to see the logic there.   They now have the highest odds in the league of landing Ben Simmons and it's not like they have zero assets.   

- Embiid (if he returns from his bone graft... which i suspect he will)
- Noel (would command a hefty return)
- Okafor (would clearly command a hefty return)
- Saric (should still be a fine prospect)
- Their #1 - Ben simmons?
- Lakers pick if it falls outside the top 3
- OKC's 1st
- Miami's 1st

+ maybe someone like Stauskas, Wroten, Grant develops into something... they have to be seen on the same level of the Rozier's, Hunter's and Mickeys of the world.


I'm sorry, but you can't call a "plan" a failure when the plan is in the process of being executed.  I say Hinkie has done a darn good job executing his plan... the ol "3 to 5 year" declaration... he started in 2013 and now it's 2015...  He's doing it in a shameless way, but the team is set up really well for future moves.   The question is, will he succeed at the next stage?   Next year the process of turning those assets into a team will begin.  I don't know if he'll be successful at that...  but I know that a good GM could turn those assets into a decent team really quickly.   Could they move Okafor for Avery Bradley and Sully right now?  Seems highly likely to me.   Could a good GM turn this into a 35-40 win team next year?  Yes.  If they want to be impatient and flip their prospects for vets, I'm sure they could be mildly competitive.  But you never know with these young guys... they might be competitive with just a few small moves and signings... and then it becomes interesting, because they have pick-swap rights with the Kings which puts them in interesting situation if they end up being solid while the Kings struggle... Similar to what Boston has going with Brooklyn.

Based on this definition of the plan, how could Hinkie ever possibly fail?

Saric will start his rookie contract when he arrives.  Obviously too early to tell if they were better off taking Elfrid.

Actually, no.

According to Article VIII Section 2 of the CBA, if a first round draft pick does not sign with the team that holds his draft rights within 3 years following the draft that he was selected in, he can negotiate a contract (of 3+ years in length) greater than 120% of the rookie scale contract, presuming the team that holds his rights has the cap space to do so.

Actually, yes if Saric comes over next season like he stated recently that he would.  He'll have to stay in Europe an additional year for the rule you quote to apply.

Attention to detail. LB said he'll be under his rookie scale deal when he arrives, which is not correct.

I wouldn't take what Saric says too seriously. It makes no monetary sense. Better to spend one more year in Europe, for more money, and being free to negotiate a deal thereafter than bogged down under a limited rookie scale contract for years. Saric has all the leverage, even if his scouting report recently has been lackluster.

He tried to get out of his Euro contract this past offseason but the buyout was too big.  I agree it doesn't make sense financially but there is no reason for him to say he is coming over next season if he doesn't mean it.

He's giving the politically correct answer. In fact, there was the report that Saric's dad wouldn't even allow Hinkie to meet with him.


Here it is...

• Fans may have to wait a little longer for first-round pick Dario Saric. The piece states Saric's father doesn't want him playing for the Sixers any time soon. It also asserts Hinkie's face time with Saric was kept to a minimum during a trip to Turkey in 2014. "Saric’s father, who acts as a de facto representative for his son, doesn’t want the Sixers close to Saric," the article said. Supposedly Saric's father wants his son to wait until he is no longer subject to the rookie wage scale in 2017-18

Well that's what happens when you treat players like pawns and not people.

No that happens when you have a son who wants to play in the NBA and will be convinced to do so if he meets with the team and you don't want him to because you want him to make more money by waiting.

No! Because they don't trust the Sixers to do the right thing if he came early. Most GMs would probably give semi guarantees behind the scenes. And if the sixers did, no way this guy trusts them.

The Sixers own his rights even if he waits.  This is a money thing not a Sixers things.

No no no!! I can no you too. Did you read that the father doesn't want to even talk to Hinkie. Kind of odd that they wouldn't want to at least initiate a relationship with the team who his son is going to play for. They don't trust the sixers.

That is because Saric wants to come over and his father doesn't want him to for FINANCIAL reasons.  His father is afraid that Hinkie will convince Dario that he should come over now and not wait and thus remove the fatherly influence.

Of course he's doing that. He doesn't trust the sixers. I would protect my son from Hinkie also.

It has nothing to do with protection, it is solely motivated by finances. 

And come on with that crap.  Hinkie is a NBA GM on the team that own's the rights to your son whether he comes over now or in 5 years, he isn't an enforcer for the mob.  This is solely financially motivated.  It has nothing to do with the Sixers and would be the same for any franchise holding his rights.

[KeepRondo]

"Protect my son from Hinkie." That makes it seem like Sam's a dangerous man.

Sure if you think so but was saying it because Hinkie has a reputation already with players and agents not trusting him.

[Vox_Populi]

"Protect my son from Hinkie." That makes it seem like Sam's a dangerous man.

Sure if you think so but was saying it because Hinkie has a reputation already with players and agents not trusting him.

Hmm.. well, I do think Hinkie's dangerous. 

[CFAN38]

The 76ers roster construction is doing nothing but hurting the young talent they do have. I am fine with their draft picks Embid was a his stakes risk if he never pans out he was still worth the risk, Noel has the makings of a defensive anchor, Saric should be worth the wait, and Okafor is one of the best post scorers to com into the league in a long time. Even the MCW trade I could see the logic in.

My issue is with the roster construction around these prospects. By building a roster of players who at best are 12th-15th men on a decent team and more likely D-league level players they are putting to much pressure on their prospects. They don't have do go the the extreme on the T-Wolves and sign 35+ year olds to mentor their youth but should at least have NBA players on the team. I personally would have gone the route of over paying players like Bass, CJ Watson, and Dorell Wright on short deals. In a similar style to the deal the Celtics signed with Johnson 12mill per with a second year team option. This would have at least placed a veteran element on this team without costing them their beloved early lottery pick.

The other element they should have factored in was the player fit. Granted they have to draft BPA and that has in the eyes of their front office led them to the Noel/Okafor pairing. While this isn't perfect the issues could have been minimized through other roster moves. Adding a vet big (like Bass) who can give floor spacing would have allowed them to start both the young players sub the vet in early and then create a 3 big rotation that minimizes Noel and Okafor's court time together. The other three players on the court should also be shooters in order to give spacing.