Is this year's Sixers team the worst NBA squad ever?

[jdz101]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

Hinkie believes that 2nd and even 3rd tier NBA players don't matter.  Teams that tanked in the past would hold onto decent young players and an old veteran or two.  Hinkie decided that NOTHING matters except getting 1st tier franchise players.

Mike

Window is pretty small if you're drafting them year on year though. They're all gonna want big money at virtually the same time. OKC had a pretty small window for success before they had to make some tough decisions hamstrung by the cap.

[colincb]

There's been a lot of nonsense in this forum about the talent on the Sixers, but Okafor, Noel, and Stauskas have TS%s of 49.6%, 43.0%, and 44.9%, respectively. That's brutal for two guys who play at or under the rim offensively and a a guy who was supposed to be shooter. Stauskas and Okafor are defensive liabilities too and neither Noel or Okafor are good rebounders. Tough to believe that Okafor's numbers aren't better, but Noel's offense and Stauskas on either end of the court sucked last year too.

Still won't challenge CHA's 7 win season I think, but a lock for the worst record.

http://bkref.com/tiny/KdVGT

[sofutomygaha]

This Sixers team has to be better than the Sixers were a few years ago when they had neither Noel nor Okafor, right?

I don't know- they did have Thad Young still, and MCW was having a rookie year a lot like Okafor's, i.e. he was getting used a ton and making numbers and everyone was losing their minds about him.

Oooh, and they had Evan Turner too. That was practically the golden age =)

[jdz101]

There's been a lot of nonsense in this forum about the talent on the Sixers, but Okafor, Noel, and Stauskas have TS%s of 49.6%, 43.0%, and 44.9%, respectively. That's brutal for two guys who play at or under the rim offensively and a a guy who was supposed to be shooter. Stauskas and Okafor are defensive liabilities too and neither Noel or Okafor are good rebounders. Tough to believe that Okafor's numbers aren't better, but Noel's offense and Stauskas on either end of the court sucked last year too.

Still won't challenge CHA's 7 win season I think, but a lock for the worst record.

http://bkref.com/tiny/KdVGT

Obviously a tough start and some progression is to be assumed but this Sixers team's net rating is pretty darn close to that Charlotte team's overall rating of around -15 on paper.

[PhoSita]

This Sixers team has to be better than the Sixers were a few years ago when they had neither Noel nor Okafor, right?

I don't know- they did have Thad Young still, and MCW was having a rookie year a lot like Okafor's, i.e. he was getting used a ton and making numbers and everyone was losing their minds about him.

Oooh, and they had Evan Turner too. That was practically the golden age =)

Fair point, they still had some NBA players on board they hadn't dumped yet.

Also I think having a Rookie of the Year candidate at point guard probably helps you more than having a no-defense Rookie of the Year candidate at center.

(See: Nuggets)

[Denis998]

Philly has gotten quite good in tanking over the years. They deserve this, they earned it. Nets are still rookies in the tanking game, let them earn their stripes.

[tazzmaniac]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

I think the tweets are rather simple minded.  The Sixers had a lot more D-leaguers last year.  They burned through a lot of them early trying to find some keepers.  The 6 that have played this year are:

Robert Covington - Hasn't played much this year due to injury but proved last year that he is an NBA caliber player.   Definitely a keeper especially with the Hinkie special contract. 
Hollis Thompson - Not particularly good but shooting 40% from 3 may keep him in the NBA for a while. 
JaKarr Sampson - Probably won't be on the Sixers next year if he doesn't show significant improvement   
T.J. McConnell - Undrafted rookie who has been rather good so far.  They'll need a good starting PG but McConnell seems like he'll be a fine backup. 
Christian Wood - Undrafted rookie but was expected to go in 2nd round.  Young, raw talent but looking pretty good so far in limited minutes. 
Phil Pressey - Only picked up because of all their PG injuries.  He played 125 games for us the last two seasons so it is hard to knock the Sixers for picking him up as a stopgap.

With Covington back now and Wroten and Marshall back early December, I would expect the minutes for Thompson, Sampson, Wood and McConnell to be reduced quite a bit.  Pressey will probably be cut but they may wait until they need a roster sport for a trade.       

[snively]

Did a write-up on Philly today, probing for weak spots in their tank armor.

I think Okafor is killing them right now. Selfish offensive player who doesn't pass or score efficiently, makes Noel worse offensively and gets routinely abused defensively. And gets a ton of minutes because he's the future.

[tazzmaniac]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

Hinkie believes that 2nd and even 3rd tier NBA players don't matter.  Teams that tanked in the past would hold onto decent young players and an old veteran or two.  Hinkie decided that NOTHING matters except getting 1st tier franchise players.

Mike

Not exactly.  Hinkie doesn't believe in overpaying for 2nd and 3rd tier players or old vets when you are a bottom rung team looking for a star to build around.  Covington is a 2nd or 3rd tier player but he has a 4-year Hinkie special contract.  So he is a keeper from a talent perspective but he is also a good tradable asset.  Paying 3 year/$10mil (or more) to keep McDaniels would have been stupid in the Sixers position.  That's more than 3 Hinkie special contracts for a player that hasn't proven anything yet. 

[snively]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

I think the tweets are rather simple minded.  The Sixers had a lot more D-leaguers last year.  They burned through a lot of them early trying to find some keepers.  The 6 that have played this year are:

Robert Covington - Hasn't played much this year due to injury but proved last year that he is an NBA caliber player.   Definitely a keeper especially with the Hinkie special contract. 
Hollis Thompson - Not particularly good but shooting 40% from 3 may keep him in the NBA for a while. 
JaKarr Sampson - Probably won't be on the Sixers next year if he doesn't show significant improvement   
T.J. McConnell - Undrafted rookie who has been rather good so far.  They'll need a good starting PG but McConnell seems like he'll be a fine backup. 
Christian Wood - Undrafted rookie but was expected to go in 2nd round.  Young, raw talent but looking pretty good so far in limited minutes. 
Phil Pressey - Only picked up because of all their PG injuries.  He played 125 games for us the last two seasons so it is hard to knock the Sixers for picking him up as a stopgap.

With Covington back now and Wroten and Marshall back early December, I would expect the minutes for Thompson, Sampson, Wood and McConnell to be reduced quite a bit.  Pressey will probably be cut but they may wait until they need a roster sport for a trade.       

Sampson and Thompson were mediocre in D-League and college. They are outright awful in the NBA. Don't think they'd make it past preseason for a single other franchise. That Philly has brought Thompson for the 3rd year in a row is pathetic.

[jdz101]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

Hinkie believes that 2nd and even 3rd tier NBA players don't matter.  Teams that tanked in the past would hold onto decent young players and an old veteran or two.  Hinkie decided that NOTHING matters except getting 1st tier franchise players.

Mike

Not exactly.  Hinkie doesn't believe in overpaying for 2nd and 3rd tier players or old vets when you are a bottom rung team looking for a star to build around.  Covington is a 2nd or 3rd tier player but he has a 4-year Hinkie special contract.  So he is a keeper from a talent perspective but he is also a good tradable asset.  Paying 3 year/$10mil (or more) to keep McDaniels would have been stupid in the Sixers position.  That's more than 3 Hinkie special contracts for a player that hasn't proven anything yet.

One or two good vets are extremely important for a team with young stars. The best leadership is by example from fellow guys on your roster. There is no guidance or leadership there for the young players on Philly's roster, no matter how much talent they have, and that's a massive failure of management in my opinion.

[tazzmaniac]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

Hinkie believes that 2nd and even 3rd tier NBA players don't matter.  Teams that tanked in the past would hold onto decent young players and an old veteran or two.  Hinkie decided that NOTHING matters except getting 1st tier franchise players.

Mike

Not exactly.  Hinkie doesn't believe in overpaying for 2nd and 3rd tier players or old vets when you are a bottom rung team looking for a star to build around.  Covington is a 2nd or 3rd tier player but he has a 4-year Hinkie special contract.  So he is a keeper from a talent perspective but he is also a good tradable asset.  Paying 3 year/$10mil (or more) to keep McDaniels would have been stupid in the Sixers position.  That's more than 3 Hinkie special contracts for a player that hasn't proven anything yet.

One or two good vets are extremely important for a team with young stars. The best leadership is by example from fellow guys on your roster. There is no guidance or leadership there for the young players on Philly's roster, no matter how much talent they have, and that's a massive failure of management in my opinion.

Not all vets provide good leadership especially when they're on a team that is losing a lot.  Good vets would rather sign with a contender unless the Sixers significantly overpaid.  Last season, they did have Mbah a Moute which probably helped some.  However, Noel said that the lack of vet leadership forced him to step into a leadership role which is a good thing.  I do think it would have helped Okafor's and Noel's offensive development if they could have signed a good vet PG but I don't know of any one available that they could have gotten at a reasonable contract. 

[Granath]

One or two good vets are extremely important for a team with young stars. The best leadership is by example from fellow guys on your roster. There is no guidance or leadership there for the young players on Philly's roster, no matter how much talent they have, and that's a massive failure of management in my opinion.

Not all vets provide good leadership especially when they're on a team that is losing a lot.  Good vets would rather sign with a contender unless the Sixers significantly overpaid.  Last season, they did have Mbah a Moute which probably helped some.  However, Noel said that the lack of vet leadership forced him to step into a leadership role which is a good thing.  I do think it would have helped Okafor's and Noel's offensive development if they could have signed a good vet PG but I don't know of any one available that they could have gotten at a reasonable contract.

I agree with jdz. You're right in that not all vets provide good leadership but that's why you pay - and perhaps overpay - for vets who can provide that kind of leadership. You want mentors and glue guys to keep the locker room going even while losses pile up. Maybe the lack of one forced Noel into that role but it's quite questionable that at his young age whether or not he is effective in that role...or whether it's hindering his overall game. Being forced to step up isn't a great thing when it detracts you from learning your position or the weight of it brings you down. Thus a guy like Jae Crowder could do wonders for the Sixers and show the youngsters what a true professional does in the workout room, locker room and on the court.

As for them being the worst team ever, who knows? It's highly unlikely but you are what your record says you are and the Sixers are 0-11 right now.

[Moranis]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Of the 12 players to suit up for the Sixers so far this season, six were undrafted and have combined to log 38 percent of Philly's minutes

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14h14 hours ago

Follow-up to last tweet: Among the NBA's other 29 teams, undrafted players have accounted for just 8 percent of total minutes

The Sixers are an NBA-DLeague hybrid.

I think the tweets are rather simple minded.  The Sixers had a lot more D-leaguers last year.  They burned through a lot of them early trying to find some keepers.  The 6 that have played this year are:

Robert Covington - Hasn't played much this year due to injury but proved last year that he is an NBA caliber player.   Definitely a keeper especially with the Hinkie special contract. 
Hollis Thompson - Not particularly good but shooting 40% from 3 may keep him in the NBA for a while. 
JaKarr Sampson - Probably won't be on the Sixers next year if he doesn't show significant improvement   
T.J. McConnell - Undrafted rookie who has been rather good so far.  They'll need a good starting PG but McConnell seems like he'll be a fine backup. 
Christian Wood - Undrafted rookie but was expected to go in 2nd round.  Young, raw talent but looking pretty good so far in limited minutes. 
Phil Pressey - Only picked up because of all their PG injuries.  He played 125 games for us the last two seasons so it is hard to knock the Sixers for picking him up as a stopgap.

With Covington back now and Wroten and Marshall back early December, I would expect the minutes for Thompson, Sampson, Wood and McConnell to be reduced quite a bit.  Pressey will probably be cut but they may wait until they need a roster sport for a trade.       

Sampson and Thompson were mediocre in D-League and college. They are outright awful in the NBA. Don't think they'd make it past preseason for a single other franchise. That Philly has brought Thompson for the 3rd year in a row is pathetic.

Thompson is one of the best shooting "big men" in history.  In fact, I can't think of a player 6'8" or taller that has shot over 40% from three for 3 consecutive seasons (Thompson is currently on pace for that).  None-the-less that players first 3 years in the league and on a bad team no less.  Shooters that good always have a place in the league, see Korver. 

[Moranis]

The Sixers will look a lot better when Wroten and Marshall are back at PG and if they get everyone playing at the same time.  Stauskas missed time, Covington has missed a lot time, Noel has missed time.  Landry (one of the vets) is out till January. Once they get everyone back and playing they won't be good, but they won't be terrible either. 

Wroten, Marshall, Canaan
Stauskas, Thompson
Covington, Sampson
Noel, Landy, Grant
Okafor, Noel

Certainly not a good team, but that team isn't as bad as people think either.  It also isn't a terribly constructed team as it has interior scoring (Okafor) and interio defense (Noel), it has a solid wing defender (Covington), excellent shooters (Stauskas, Thompson, Canaan), and ok distributors (Wroten, Marshall, Canaan).