Author Topic: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?  (Read 13136 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2015, 04:13:59 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
I was not impressed by Ingram when I watched Duke in his first game. Posters on here who are going to watch him will compare him to Jeff Green (just like any other wing who fades in and out of games gets compared to him).

Ben Simmons is in his own class ahead of everyone else in the draft.

Simmons is likely the #1 pick but he is not Lebron good.  He has a below avg jump shot , is not that explosive (more like Dwight Powell) and sometimes goes on these "pg, pass first mode" for too long

This said, he is going to be a good player.  Fixing his jump shot would do wonders for his game

If Justin Jackson can put on 20 pounds, imo he is the 2nd best SF in the draft.  Has a good all around game and high bbiq. Good leadership.  Just needs to add pounds to help with rebounding and hold position

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2015, 04:17:29 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1605
  • Tommy Points: 76
I think I've got versatility fatigue.  Give me a pure SF.  Give me Ingram for offense and Poetl for defense.  Even better, give me Skal Lab and then give me Jaylen Brown when he falls to 10 for some silly reason.

I feel the same way. I think Simmons is more of a PF than SF. Thankfully for him he has the height, length, and athleticism to play the 4 position. With Ingram it's clear that he is a perfect fit for the SF position in the NBA. Has the quickness, ball handling, and ability to create in isolation. Poetl has dominated in the beginning of the season and I would be ecstatic if we could land both in one draft.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2015, 04:22:35 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
I think I've got versatility fatigue.  Give me a pure SF.  Give me Ingram for offense and Poetl for defense.  Even better, give me Skal Lab and then give me Jaylen Brown when he falls to 10 for some silly reason.

I feel the same way. I think Simmons is more of a PF than SF. Thankfully for him he has the height, length, and athleticism to play the 4 position. With Ingram it's clear that he is a perfect fit for the SF position in the NBA. Has the quickness, ball handling, and ability to create in isolation. Poetl has dominated in the beginning of the season and I would be ecstatic if we could land both in one draft.

worried Skal might have a hard time adding pounds like Noel

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2015, 04:32:56 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
I think I've got versatility fatigue.  Give me a pure SF.  Give me Ingram for offense and Poetl for defense.  Even better, give me Skal Lab and then give me Jaylen Brown when he falls to 10 for some silly reason.

I feel the same way. I think Simmons is more of a PF than SF. Thankfully for him he has the height, length, and athleticism to play the 4 position. With Ingram it's clear that he is a perfect fit for the SF position in the NBA. Has the quickness, ball handling, and ability to create in isolation. Poetl has dominated in the beginning of the season and I would be ecstatic if we could land both in one draft.
I agree about Simmons. I keep reading that people think he's a 3 but he's got legit PF size so why wouldn't you want to have those skills at the 4, where his jump shot isn't going to be as much of a liability but his handle and touch around the rim make him even more dangerous?
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2015, 06:03:07 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Tommy Points: 862
I think I've got versatility fatigue.  Give me a pure SF.  Give me Ingram for offense and Poetl for defense.  Even better, give me Skal Lab and then give me Jaylen Brown when he falls to 10 for some silly reason.

I feel the same way. I think Simmons is more of a PF than SF. Thankfully for him he has the height, length, and athleticism to play the 4 position. With Ingram it's clear that he is a perfect fit for the SF position in the NBA. Has the quickness, ball handling, and ability to create in isolation. Poetl has dominated in the beginning of the season and I would be ecstatic if we could land both in one draft.
I agree about Simmons. I keep reading that people think he's a 3 but he's got legit PF size so why wouldn't you want to have those skills at the 4, where his jump shot isn't going to be as much of a liability but his handle and touch around the rim make him even more dangerous?

Well whatever you want to call him, he's most dangerous going to the rim, not posting up or working from down low.   He doesn't have a 3PT shot, but his short jumper isn't a disaster.  His predominant scoring mode is still going to be outside-in, driving, cutting and leaping over people.   When he elevates, if he's within 6-8 feet of the hoop, he's usually in range for his flip layup (Jeff Green style, except longer).   He's so fast and quick with this dribble that he should be able to get to the line a lot.

His FT% was supposed to be a concern, but so far through three games he's shooting 80% on 3.3 FTA/g.

On the OP topic, I'll be thrilled if we get any of Simmons, Ingram or Brown.    I would rate Simmons as significantly above the other two mainly because of his ridiculous athleticism and especially his handle & passing skills.   But both Ingram and Brown each have pretty clear paths to success in the NBA.   Of the latter two, I know Ingram is still pretty skinny, but I'm intrigued by his length (7' 3" wingspan!) and smooth shooting form and overall offensive game.

If we don't take an SF with the Nets pick (hypothetically, let's say we ended up with Labissiere or Bender), then there are still a few pretty interesting SF prospects a bit lower in the draft like Hayes, Luwawu, Pope and Jackson.   

Nigel Hayes is less of a 'sexy pick' because he's a junior, but he's still pretty young (he'll turn 21 this December).   His roots are as a PF, but he's been morphing his game and has become a pretty good 3PT shooter (39.6% last year and 40% so far this year in 5 games) and his assist numbers have gone up as he's playing more of a classic 'SF' role. His shooting stroke is not perfect, but it is quick.  His ability to get to the line is a strong point and he's taking 7.4 FTA/gm so far this year.   He's got a good handle with either hand.  His size is almost textbook for playing 'big SF' in the NBA:  6' 8", 7' 3.5" wingspan, 238 lb.  In Wisconsin's's system, he's not usually been going after rebounds so his rebound numbers aren't impressive.  But he's a very solid defender.

Timothe Luwawu is all 'potential' from what I understand.  I haven't yet watched a lot of vid on him.  At 6' 7", 205lb, he looks to me more like a 'big SG/small SF' type, but he may still grow (he'll turn 21 next May).  From what little I've watched, he's got a very nice shooting stroke.   I don't know about his defense.

Most here know about Malik Pope who's slot on draft boards is as wild as any candidate.  I think I've seen him slotted anywhere from just in the top-10 to all the way down in the 2nd round.  Like Ingram, he's long (6' 9", 7'2"ws) and lanky (205 lb), with a nice shooting stroke.  He's younger, as he won't turn 20 until next July, after the draft, if he comes out.

I don't hear a lot of talk about Justin Jackson, probably because his stats aren't all that flashy.  He's a solid, polished player, though.  Very good passing skills and a pretty versatile scorer on offense. He's a smart basketball player on both ends of the court.  His defensive fundamentals need a lot of work, though (stance, form on contention, footwork, etc.).  He's got good length at 6' 8" with a 6' 10" wingspan, but is another skinny young kid at just 201 lb.  I don't know if his upside is at the same level as the other guys, but his floor is probably pretty decent. 

It will be interesting to see where all these guys settle in on the draft boards by next June.  So much can and will change by then.  But no matter how it shakes out, it seems likely that if Danny does want an SF, he'll probably have at least one to consider no matter where he is picking.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2015, 07:01:24 PM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2112
  • Tommy Points: 318
Need more time for the season to play out but at the moment I might be most high on Jamal Murray out of Kentucky. Everyone's least favorite micro blog site Bleacher Report did an interesting writeup about his upbringing and how he was taught at a young age by his father to idolize Bruce Lee and the benefits of mindfulness. He meditates before and after every game in a way that brings to mind how Ray Allen used to prepare for us.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2589160-zen-and-the-art-of-making-the-perfect-point-guard-meet-kentuckys-jamal-murray

On the court, I think he could make a great compliment to Smart due to his size and shooting ability, without bogging the offense down by ball hogging or for that matter over passing. From everything I've seen he's got a great sense of when to attack and has some crafty finishing moves at the rim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGQMhdItbQ

If the Brooklyn Pick falls closer to 5 than 1 we could do much worse than Jamal Murray. Despite being at a huge school IMO he could be the Damian Lillard style overlooked player in the draft that might be perceived as having the highest ceiling but just has a natural knack for scoring.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 07:08:04 PM by Smartacus »

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2015, 07:46:14 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8113
  • Tommy Points: 549
Need more time for the season to play out but at the moment I might be most high on Jamal Murray out of Kentucky. Everyone's least favorite micro blog site Bleacher Report did an interesting writeup about his upbringing and how he was taught at a young age by his father to idolize Bruce Lee and the benefits of mindfulness. He meditates before and after every game in a way that brings to mind how Ray Allen used to prepare for us.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2589160-zen-and-the-art-of-making-the-perfect-point-guard-meet-kentuckys-jamal-murray

On the court, I think he could make a great compliment to Smart due to his size and shooting ability, without bogging the offense down by ball hogging or for that matter over passing. From everything I've seen he's got a great sense of when to attack and has some crafty finishing moves at the rim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGQMhdItbQ

If the Brooklyn Pick falls closer to 5 than 1 we could do much worse than Jamal Murray. Despite being at a huge school IMO he could be the Damian Lillard style overlooked player in the draft that might be perceived as having the highest ceiling but just has a natural knack for scoring.
I like Murray but he seems to be more of an SG or combo guard not a PG.  Since I don't think Smart is a PG, I'm not sure Smart and Murray would be a good pairing.   

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2015, 08:02:48 PM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4849
  • Tommy Points: 386
Need more time for the season to play out but at the moment I might be most high on Jamal Murray out of Kentucky. Everyone's least favorite micro blog site Bleacher Report did an interesting writeup about his upbringing and how he was taught at a young age by his father to idolize Bruce Lee and the benefits of mindfulness. He meditates before and after every game in a way that brings to mind how Ray Allen used to prepare for us.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2589160-zen-and-the-art-of-making-the-perfect-point-guard-meet-kentuckys-jamal-murray

On the court, I think he could make a great compliment to Smart due to his size and shooting ability, without bogging the offense down by ball hogging or for that matter over passing. From everything I've seen he's got a great sense of when to attack and has some crafty finishing moves at the rim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGQMhdItbQ

If the Brooklyn Pick falls closer to 5 than 1 we could do much worse than Jamal Murray. Despite being at a huge school IMO he could be the Damian Lillard style overlooked player in the draft that might be perceived as having the highest ceiling but just has a natural knack for scoring.
I like Murray but he seems to be more of an SG or combo guard not a PG.  Since I don't think Smart is a PG, I'm not sure Smart and Murray would be a good pairing.

I love Murray.  I think he could end up the third pick in the draft.  Not being a pure PG might be just fine with the Celtics system as long as he can handle it well enough not to get his pocket picked.  Someone compared him to Brandon Roy, though Murray seems a little smaller.  And I don't remember Roy's game enough...was he super ball dominant?  The Celtics seem to want to stay away from that somewhat except maybe when they need scoring in a tight spot near the end of the games....example:  give ball to Isaiah. 

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2015, 08:26:16 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1314
  • Tommy Points: 232
Well, it's still so early it's tough to say very much definitive about these guys right now. I mean at this time last year no one was even considering D'Angelo Russell as a top 3 pick, so you never know how it will look by draft night.

But to me, If I was DA, I'd be looking at Simmons first, Skal if he's still available and if we don't land in the top 2, we make a push to get Jaylen Brown.  If he can show off a good offensive game this year and a shooting stroke, he would fit this team perfectly. Total defensive menace, plays with the same kind of intensity Smart, Bradley and Crowder play with. I think having him and Crowder switching off at the 3 could be just lethal defensively on other teams. If we can't move that Nets pick for a star or package and trade up for one of Simmons or Skal we need to keep building on this hard-nosed, defense first culture we have with a guy like Brown who would fall right in line and could certainly be the offensive boon we need at the 3. I'm all for doing a package deal to move up to get him if need be.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2015, 10:19:29 PM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4849
  • Tommy Points: 386
I think I've got versatility fatigue.  Give me a pure SF.  Give me Ingram for offense and Poetl for defense.  Even better, give me Skal Lab and then give me Jaylen Brown when he falls to 10 for some silly reason.

I feel the same way. I think Simmons is more of a PF than SF. Thankfully for him he has the height, length, and athleticism to play the 4 position. With Ingram it's clear that he is a perfect fit for the SF position in the NBA. Has the quickness, ball handling, and ability to create in isolation. Poetl has dominated in the beginning of the season and I would be ecstatic if we could land both in one draft.
I agree about Simmons. I keep reading that people think he's a 3 but he's got legit PF size so why wouldn't you want to have those skills at the 4, where his jump shot isn't going to be as much of a liability but his handle and touch around the rim make him even more dangerous?

Well whatever you want to call him, he's most dangerous going to the rim, not posting up or working from down low.   He doesn't have a 3PT shot, but his short jumper isn't a disaster.  His predominant scoring mode is still going to be outside-in, driving, cutting and leaping over people.   When he elevates, if he's within 6-8 feet of the hoop, he's usually in range for his flip layup (Jeff Green style, except longer).   He's so fast and quick with this dribble that he should be able to get to the line a lot.

His FT% was supposed to be a concern, but so far through three games he's shooting 80% on 3.3 FTA/g.

On the OP topic, I'll be thrilled if we get any of Simmons, Ingram or Brown.    I would rate Simmons as significantly above the other two mainly because of his ridiculous athleticism and especially his handle & passing skills.   But both Ingram and Brown each have pretty clear paths to success in the NBA.   Of the latter two, I know Ingram is still pretty skinny, but I'm intrigued by his length (7' 3" wingspan!) and smooth shooting form and overall offensive game.

If we don't take an SF with the Nets pick (hypothetically, let's say we ended up with Labissiere or Bender), then there are still a few pretty interesting SF prospects a bit lower in the draft like Hayes, Luwawu, Pope and Jackson.   

Nigel Hayes is less of a 'sexy pick' because he's a junior, but he's still pretty young (he'll turn 21 this December).   His roots are as a PF, but he's been morphing his game and has become a pretty good 3PT shooter (39.6% last year and 40% so far this year in 5 games) and his assist numbers have gone up as he's playing more of a classic 'SF' role. His shooting stroke is not perfect, but it is quick.  His ability to get to the line is a strong point and he's taking 7.4 FTA/gm so far this year.   He's got a good handle with either hand.  His size is almost textbook for playing 'big SF' in the NBA:  6' 8", 7' 3.5" wingspan, 238 lb.  In Wisconsin's's system, he's not usually been going after rebounds so his rebound numbers aren't impressive.  But he's a very solid defender.

Timothe Luwawu is all 'potential' from what I understand.  I haven't yet watched a lot of vid on him.  At 6' 7", 205lb, he looks to me more like a 'big SG/small SF' type, but he may still grow (he'll turn 21 next May).  From what little I've watched, he's got a very nice shooting stroke.   I don't know about his defense.

Most here know about Malik Pope who's slot on draft boards is as wild as any candidate.  I think I've seen him slotted anywhere from just in the top-10 to all the way down in the 2nd round.  Like Ingram, he's long (6' 9", 7'2"ws) and lanky (205 lb), with a nice shooting stroke.  He's younger, as he won't turn 20 until next July, after the draft, if he comes out.

I don't hear a lot of talk about Justin Jackson, probably because his stats aren't all that flashy.  He's a solid, polished player, though.  Very good passing skills and a pretty versatile scorer on offense. He's a smart basketball player on both ends of the court.  His defensive fundamentals need a lot of work, though (stance, form on contention, footwork, etc.).  He's got good length at 6' 8" with a 6' 10" wingspan, but is another skinny young kid at just 201 lb.  I don't know if his upside is at the same level as the other guys, but his floor is probably pretty decent. 

It will be interesting to see where all these guys settle in on the draft boards by next June.  So much can and will change by then.  But no matter how it shakes out, it seems likely that if Danny does want an SF, he'll probably have at least one to consider no matter where he is picking.

Out of the above group of SF's down lower, I like Hayes, followed by Luwawu, who apparently has fantastic defensive upside, to go with being a good shooter.  Justin Jackson seems like a good fit on the Celtics as well.  Good to know if we get a big with the Nets pick there are still some good small forwards out there.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2015, 11:20:42 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
A snippet from Chad Ford:

Celtics scout to me: How mad will @BillSimmons be if we get the No. 1 pick & DON'T take Ben Simmons? Bill???

For the record, the Celtics scout was joking. Every team I've spoken with has Simmons No. 1. For most, there isn't a close 2nd...




Good assurance that we won't botch the pick of #1
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2015, 01:03:41 PM »

Offline mef730

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4422
  • Tommy Points: 907

Good assurance that we won't botch the pick of #1

Yeah, as long as we don't mess up and pick that Vontae Mack guy.

Mike

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2015, 03:16:19 PM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
I think this coming draft is not as good as the last draft.  I'd take Towns or Porzingis (and maybe Okafor) over any of the guys in the 2016 draft. Granted, it is early, but that is my assessment. Just don't see the same combination of length and skill as the three I mentioned.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2015, 03:18:26 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5161
  • Tommy Points: 215
I think this coming draft is not as good as the last draft.  I'd take Towns or Porzingis (and maybe Okafor) over any of the guys in the 2016 draft. Granted, it is early, but that is my assessment. Just don't see the same combination of length and skill as the three I mentioned.
It was a great draft class. We were one draft too early and one too late maybe. Unless we get Simmons.

Re: How much of a drop are Jaylen Brown/Brandon Ingram from Ben Simmons?
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2015, 03:58:43 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
caught some recent videos of Simmons.  Is it just me or does anyone else watch this kid and see a less-flashy Magic Johnson when he's got the ball in his hands?

Based on what he's shown so far, the team that gets him should be seriously looking at him at running the point.  Have to see his D but he seems to be fairly solid based on the little I've seen of him.