Author Topic: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?  (Read 10694 times)

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Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2015, 04:58:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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The Celtics aren't overachieving.  They are achieving almost exactly where almost everyone in the basketball world expected them to achieve. 

The chances of this team tanking at any point during this season are almost nil.  I know that's a bold statement, but, c'mon, even the pessimists know this team isn't tanking, right?

We're too good for that.  Time to admit that the goal for this team is to win games.

A legitimate case can be made that the Celtics are currently underachieving.  Their Pythagorean win-loss is 11-5.
To put this further into perspective, the Celtics have an SRS of 3.89. Which is typically indicitive of a team with a win% of at least 60. So they've definitely underachieved thus far.
Small sample size and we've beat some good teams this year.   The advanced stats reflect that.  Clearly if you blow out the Hawks (60 wins last year) by 14 points, it factors into these kind of stats.

It's misleading to use those stats as a reflection of the team "underachieving".   This is still a roster made up of mediocre players.  They wouldn't be winning games like that without Stevens mastery and the players buying into it.   This roster plays better than it should... that's traditionally called overachieving.   Meanwhile, a team with as much talent as the kings being 6-11... or a team with as much talent as the Rockets being 6-10... or a team with as much talent as the Pelicans being 4-12... safe to call that underachieving.

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2015, 05:39:34 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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The Celtics aren't overachieving.  They are achieving almost exactly where almost everyone in the basketball world expected them to achieve. 

The chances of this team tanking at any point during this season are almost nil.  I know that's a bold statement, but, c'mon, even the pessimists know this team isn't tanking, right?

We're too good for that.  Time to admit that the goal for this team is to win games.

A legitimate case can be made that the Celtics are currently underachieving.  Their Pythagorean win-loss is 11-5.
To put this further into perspective, the Celtics have an SRS of 3.89. Which is typically indicitive of a team with a win% of at least 60. So they've definitely underachieved thus far.
Small sample size and we've beat some good teams this year.   The advanced stats reflect that.  Clearly if you blow out the Hawks (60 wins last year) by 14 points, it factors into these kind of stats.

It's misleading to use those stats as a reflection of the team "underachieving".   This is still a roster made up of mediocre players.  They wouldn't be winning games like that without Stevens mastery and the players buying into it.   This roster plays better than it should... that's traditionally called overachieving.   Meanwhile, a team with as much talent as the kings being 6-11... or a team with as much talent as the Rockets being 6-10... or a team with as much talent as the Pelicans being 4-12... safe to call that underachieving.
Only to you.

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2015, 05:44:00 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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The Celtics aren't overachieving.  They are achieving almost exactly where almost everyone in the basketball world expected them to achieve. 

The chances of this team tanking at any point during this season are almost nil.  I know that's a bold statement, but, c'mon, even the pessimists know this team isn't tanking, right?

We're too good for that.  Time to admit that the goal for this team is to win games.

A legitimate case can be made that the Celtics are currently underachieving.  Their Pythagorean win-loss is 11-5.
To put this further into perspective, the Celtics have an SRS of 3.89. Which is typically indicitive of a team with a win% of at least 60. So they've definitely underachieved thus far.
Small sample size and we've beat some good teams this year.   The advanced stats reflect that.  Clearly if you blow out the Hawks (60 wins last year) by 14 points, it factors into these kind of stats.

It's misleading to use those stats as a reflection of the team "underachieving".   This is still a roster made up of mediocre players.  They wouldn't be winning games like that without Stevens mastery and the players buying into it.   This roster plays better than it should... that's traditionally called overachieving.   Meanwhile, a team with as much talent as the kings being 6-11... or a team with as much talent as the Rockets being 6-10... or a team with as much talent as the Pelicans being 4-12... safe to call that underachieving.
Only to you.

are you really saying this roster isn't mediocre ? Be a little objective ....

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2015, 07:55:42 PM »

Offline chambers

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The Celtics aren't 'overachieving'.

Overachieving would be them sitting in the top 3 teams in the East with all those great wins vs great teams, without a few annoying losses to some bad teams.

You can't say that 'without Brad and some injuries, this team would blah blah blah', because they have Brad, and they don't have too many injuries. Any team with injuries can suck lol.
This twisted logic is hilarious.

Brad Stevens is a part of this team. Because of the style of play they have, even one or two injuries to starters will have LESS of an impact than most other teams because of our depth.

Sure there aren't any sure fire All Stars on our team, but we've got 3 guys who are all front runners for 1st and 2nd All NBA defense selections and an incredible player in IT who can score like a superstar on any given night.

 But the main reason we aren't overachieving is because we literally have the best defensive back court in the NBA with Bradley, Smart and Crowder.
Even without Smart, they utterly dismantled the Wizards with Beal and Wall- we've seen them do it so many times this season. They put fear into the eyes of the opponents guard rotation and it makes life for Amir, Sully, KO and Lee so much easier behind them.

 They've done this now to some very good teams because that's their modus operandi. That's their talent. Talent doesn't just have to be on the offensive end. We have three defensive All Stars. You don't need guys to hit tough shots when you score 20 points a game off fast breaks/turnovers and have great ball movement.

 Now what we could use is better three point shooting from those same three defensive monsters on the perimeter- that would make us a legitimate scare to a team like Cleveland in the playoffs.

We aren't the most talented offensive team, but we are an incredibly talented defensive team on the perimeter.

This is what annoys me when our strengths aren't acknowledged but our weaknesses are spouted as the keys as to why we are doing better than expected or 'overachieving'.

We are right where we thought we'd be. Slightly better than .500 with the ability to beat any team on any given night if our defense and ball movement are at a normal standard.

No one is expecting this team to take the Cavs to 7 games come playoff time, but we'll give them a better fight than last year and we may even get past the 3rd seed if we finish as the 6th seed in the first round of the playoffs.

This is a team that:

1) wants to get to at least the 6th seed in the East, in order to avoid Cleveland and ATL in the first round.
2) believes if it can finish in the top 6, has a genuine chance to make the 2nd round of the playoffs ala the 76ers in 2012- and we are better than that 76ers team.
3) Has a coach that puts defense, fast break scoring and taking more shots than their opponents above all other factors. Brad understands that if we can take more shots per game than our opponents, and force more turnovers on our opponents (leading to fast break baskets and less shots for our opponents), that we don't need to rely on a top 10 player to be a solid playoff team.
The beauty of this strategy is that with our depth- however 'mediocre' it may be offensively, we still have a shot at winning most games. He's playing to our strengths. Just because other teams win with offensive firepower doesn't mean we can't get 45-48 wins predicated around an awesome defense.

The defense is like a beautiful landmark for free agents and their agents, and it's the first critical step in developing this teams identity for the next 10 years while Stevens is here.
Build it and they will come.

We may not be a true contender just yet, but we are building one of the best defenses in the NBA and we are definitely not overachieving being 9W-7L in the East.

"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2015, 08:19:57 PM »

Offline MBunge

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But Boston in particular is on fragile ground.  Most teams can rely on talent.  Knicks can dog it and Melo is still going to drop his 25 a night.

It's stuff like this which drives people up the wall.  The Knicks do not have a more talented roster than Boston.  No one who knows anything about basketball thinks they do.  No one who has watched the respective teams play this season would say they do.  And to suggest the Kings are some great collection of talent being held back by George Karl?

It's like you turn off your brain when it comes to every other team in the league.

Mike
Knicks have more top-level talent than Boston.   Quality over quantity.   Boston and New York are both borderline playoff teams.

Melo is the best player on either team.  Of the next 10 best guys on both rosters, 9 of them are Celtics.  And no, Porzingis is NOT the second best player on either roster.

Mike

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2015, 08:31:17 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Danny will not tank, he would do a trade that may make the team less competitive right now but better in the near future. Then again with a team this deep subtracting a couple players could allow someone to rise above the rest. I could see RJ really improving with more minutes in the second half of the season.

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2015, 08:42:05 PM »

Offline Big333223

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But Boston in particular is on fragile ground.  Most teams can rely on talent.  Knicks can dog it and Melo is still going to drop his 25 a night.

It's stuff like this which drives people up the wall.  The Knicks do not have a more talented roster than Boston.  No one who knows anything about basketball thinks they do.  No one who has watched the respective teams play this season would say they do.  And to suggest the Kings are some great collection of talent being held back by George Karl?

It's like you turn off your brain when it comes to every other team in the league.

Mike
Knicks have more top-level talent than Boston.   Quality over quantity.   Boston and New York are both borderline playoff teams.

Melo is the best player on either team.  Of the next 10 best guys on both rosters, 9 of them are Celtics.  And no, Porzingis is NOT the second best player on either roster.

Mike
Porzingis might not be the 2nd best player on either roster but he is probably the single most valuable player on either team. And he would probably be one of the 5 best players on the Celtics right now.
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Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2015, 08:47:36 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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lol Danny has already "tried" an unofficial tank - by trading Rondo and Jeff Green.

Add in Sully's injury last year, IT's injury towards the end, and the other incidents/injuries the team overcame and I'm confident that right now Coach Brad Stevens can get a team of Teletubbies to the NBA Playoffs if he had to.

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2015, 12:58:49 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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They are closer to a sub .500 team than a 50 game winner and have no star. Don't know why some are so shocked a few posters think they might tank.

I'm not shocked that some posters think the Celtics might tank.  I'm just informing you that it's not happening. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2015, 01:04:30 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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They are closer to a sub .500 team than a 50 game winner and have no star. Don't know why some are so shocked a few posters think they might tank.

I'm not shocked that some posters think the Celtics might tank.  I'm just informing you that it's not happening.

May be more of a discussion if it was at all possible. Although, perhaps among DA's many talents, he can work 6 phones at once? Probably not.
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Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2015, 01:07:39 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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The Celtics aren't overachieving.  They are achieving almost exactly where almost everyone in the basketball world expected them to achieve. 

The chances of this team tanking at any point during this season are almost nil.  I know that's a bold statement, but, c'mon, even the pessimists know this team isn't tanking, right?

We're too good for that.  Time to admit that the goal for this team is to win games.

A legitimate case can be made that the Celtics are currently underachieving.  Their Pythagorean win-loss is 11-5.
To put this further into perspective, the Celtics have an SRS of 3.89. Which is typically indicitive of a team with a win% of at least 60. So they've definitely underachieved thus far.
Small sample size and we've beat some good teams this year.   The advanced stats reflect that.  Clearly if you blow out the Hawks (60 wins last year) by 14 points, it factors into these kind of stats.

It's misleading to use those stats as a reflection of the team "underachieving".   This is still a roster made up of mediocre players.  They wouldn't be winning games like that without Stevens mastery and the players buying into it.   This roster plays better than it should... that's traditionally called overachieving.   Meanwhile, a team with as much talent as the kings being 6-11... or a team with as much talent as the Rockets being 6-10... or a team with as much talent as the Pelicans being 4-12... safe to call that underachieving.

Whatever.  Your twisteriness is impressive.  It truly is.  I know you are aware that this Celtics team is going to make a push for the playoffs all season long.  Although I won't guarantee we'll make it, I predict we will.

I do, however, feel fairly confident guaranteeing that the team won't pull the plug on attempting to win ball games this season and instead reverse course and make ping pong balls a higher priority. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2015, 01:48:24 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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The Celtics aren't overachieving.  They are achieving almost exactly where almost everyone in the basketball world expected them to achieve. 

The chances of this team tanking at any point during this season are almost nil.  I know that's a bold statement, but, c'mon, even the pessimists know this team isn't tanking, right?

We're too good for that.  Time to admit that the goal for this team is to win games.

A legitimate case can be made that the Celtics are currently underachieving.  Their Pythagorean win-loss is 11-5.
To put this further into perspective, the Celtics have an SRS of 3.89. Which is typically indicitive of a team with a win% of at least 60. So they've definitely underachieved thus far.
Small sample size and we've beat some good teams this year.   The advanced stats reflect that.  Clearly if you blow out the Hawks (60 wins last year) by 14 points, it factors into these kind of stats.

It's misleading to use those stats as a reflection of the team "underachieving".   This is still a roster made up of mediocre players.  They wouldn't be winning games like that without Stevens mastery and the players buying into it.   This roster plays better than it should... that's traditionally called overachieving.   Meanwhile, a team with as much talent as the kings being 6-11... or a team with as much talent as the Rockets being 6-10... or a team with as much talent as the Pelicans being 4-12... safe to call that underachieving.
Only to you.

are you really saying this roster isn't mediocre ? Be a little objective ....

The defensive talent on this team is far from mediocre. When I see people say that the whole team is full of mediocre players with little separation between them all, I usually think they are completely ignoring half the game.


The Celtics aren't overachieving.  They are achieving almost exactly where almost everyone in the basketball world expected them to achieve. 

The chances of this team tanking at any point during this season are almost nil.  I know that's a bold statement, but, c'mon, even the pessimists know this team isn't tanking, right?

We're too good for that.  Time to admit that the goal for this team is to win games.

A legitimate case can be made that the Celtics are currently underachieving.  Their Pythagorean win-loss is 11-5.
To put this further into perspective, the Celtics have an SRS of 3.89. Which is typically indicitive of a team with a win% of at least 60. So they've definitely underachieved thus far.
Small sample size and we've beat some good teams this year.   The advanced stats reflect that.  Clearly if you blow out the Hawks (60 wins last year) by 14 points, it factors into these kind of stats.

It's misleading to use those stats as a reflection of the team "underachieving".   This is still a roster made up of mediocre players.  They wouldn't be winning games like that without Stevens mastery and the players buying into it.   This roster plays better than it should... that's traditionally called overachieving.   Meanwhile, a team with as much talent as the kings being 6-11... or a team with as much talent as the Rockets being 6-10... or a team with as much talent as the Pelicans being 4-12... safe to call that underachieving.

The Kings and Pelicans aren't underachieving. Beyond their number 1 guy, the talent on those teams is completely underwhelming. They are full of mediocre offensive players that can't play defense. I've been saying for a year now that NOP has done a dreadful job surrounding Davis with truly impactful NBA players, but their issue this year has been injuries more than anything anyway. The Kings don't have talent that fits together. Cousins with a 3PT shot was unexpected, but if he didn't pull that rabbit out of a hat, it wouldn't have shocked me if they didn't have much more than 3 or 4 wins on the season. Their shooting outlook was pretty poor in the pre-season for a team that was planning on being 100% offense.

For whatever reason I feel like you think all role players or any player that isn't a superstar is cut from the same cloth and easy to replace in terms of impact play. That's not really true.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 01:58:10 AM by DarkAzcura »

Re: Say the c's struggle through January, Could Danny tank it?
« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2015, 04:19:11 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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It's time to play Young, Hunter, and Rozier more. If people thinks that means I'm saying they should tank, then that's wrong. It's called rebuilding. Besides, we clearly aren't a great team this year. The point is to develop these young players. I haven't seen Stevens do that yet with any of our draft picks with the exception of Smart. And even Smart doesn't have free reign on offense. He just shoots threes instead of playing P&R.