Would you trade Jae Crowder + our own 2016 pick for Harrison Barnes?

[chambers]

2016 Celtics pick+
Jae Crowder

For Harrison Barnes.

Keep in mind Barnes is an RFA at the end of this season.
This trade is also about giving us his RFA rights to match any offers on him.
He's just turned 23, so will be 24 years old at the start of next season.

[pearljammer10]

101 times out of 100

[tarheelsxxiii]

2016 Celtics pick+
Jae Crowder

For Harrison Barnes.

Keep in mind Barnes is an RFA at the end of this season.
This trade is also about giving us his RFA rights to match any offers on him.
He's just turned 23, so will be 24 years old at the start of next season.

Lol. Let's pretend you are DA here for a minute.. how on Earth are you going to substantiate this trade?

[IDreamCeltics]

Two things...

1.  Barnes has made it pretty clear he thinks he's a max or close to max player, he just turned down 60 million from the Warriors.

2.  He averages like 12 points a game.

Even if we could trade for him, I don't think we could afford to keep him for what he's going to contribute.

[knuckleballer]

Value wise, it's a good deal for the Celtics and Barnes would be a nice player, but considering he turned down a 4 year/64 million dollar extension, I might shy away.  I don't think he's that kind of player.

[konkmv]

Too much for an unproven player...

[dreamgreen]

Two things...

1.  Barnes has made it pretty clear he thinks he's a max or close to max player, he just turned down 60 million from the Warriors.

2.  He averages like 12 points a game.

Even if we could trade for him, I don't think we could afford to keep him for what he's going to contribute.

Agreed

[Future Celtics Owner]

I'd rather tank and use our pick.

[Eja117]

I'd rather keep what we got. Jae in on an incredible deal and our pick will be also.  Harrison seems to be a fine player, but I can't pretend I think he's a final piece or anything like that.

If James Young were showing great signs or if Evan T were playing well and talking about wanting to sign a fair extension that would be different.  But it's nothing like that right now.

[chambers]

2016 Celtics pick+
Jae Crowder

For Harrison Barnes.

Keep in mind Barnes is an RFA at the end of this season.
This trade is also about giving us his RFA rights to match any offers on him.
He's just turned 23, so will be 24 years old at the start of next season.

Lol. Let's pretend you are DA here for a minute.. how on Earth are you going to substantiate this trade?

What perspective are you asking from?
Are you saying it's too much for Barnes or that it's too little?

Ainge justifies offering because it's very likely the Warriors don't want to pay Barnes what he wants and they'd rather get something for him before he leaves.
Crowder would be an excellent replacement.

In fact the reason I posted this trade is because it was suggested on the Warriors forum and the consensus seems to be that it was a good deal.

Personally Barnes interests me and he'd be an upgrade over Crowder,  the question for me is what's the % chance that Barnes becomes good enough at least to be the third best player on a championship team (or better) and whether he's worth matching offers of 4 year ×$18-20 million as an RFA.
I'm not entirely convinced he can be, but Ainge loves him. The other question is whether we should gamble on Barnes or just wait for another real star to spend it on...but who?
Anyway, Ainge tried to trade for him twice (including Pierce for Barnes in 2012) and I think theres a good chance he goes after Barnes. Trading for him would basically lock him up if he were committed to potentially paying him.

Does that make sense?
I think it's justified by Ainge to some extent right?

[max215]

His RFA worries me. I think someone's bound to sign him to some massive offer sheet.

[Csfan1984]

I would but Warriors won't.

[Eddie20]

I do like Barnes, but why take that risk when he can just easily bolt?

Crowder continues to be undervalued. He just does so many things that don't show up on the box score, so it's easy to overlook him. However, this year, granted it's only been 2 games, but he has been filling up the boxscore with averages of:

PPG 10.5
RPG 5.0
APG 3.5
SPG 2.5

He also is just 25 and has a team friendly 5 year deal that pays him the following:

15-16 6M
16-17 6.5M
17-18 7M
18-19 7.4M
19-20 7.9M

Now consider that contract with the rising cap, while factoring his current production with expected growth as a player, and what you have is a foundation piece. Sure, he might not be a star, but he brings a toughness to the team and helps gives us an identity.

So "no" I wouldn't do that trade. Especially when it involves giving up a 1st rd pick and when we can sign Barnes outright during the summer without losing any assets.

[Celtics4ever]

It depends on where our pick is really.   I do not think we have looked great so far.   So our pick could be valuable.

[saltlover]

I do like Barnes, but why take that risk when he can just easily bolt?

Crowder continues to be undervalued. He just does so many things that don't show up on the box score, so it's easy to overlook him. However, this year, granted it's only been 2 games, but he has been filling up the boxscore with averages of:

PPG 10.5
RPG 5.0
APG 3.5
SPG 2.5

He also is just 25 and has a team friendly 5 year deal that pays him the following:

15-16 6M
16-17 6.5M
17-18 7M
18-19 7.4M
19-20 7.9M

Now consider that contract with the rising cap, while factoring his current production with expected growth as a player, and what you have is a foundation piece. Sure, he might not be a star, but he brings a toughness to the team and helps gives us an identity.

So "no" I wouldn't do that trade. Especially when it involves giving up a 1st rd pick and when we can sign Barnes outright during the summer without losing any assets.

I agree with much of what you've said, but that is not how Crowder's deal is structured.  I don't have the actual numbers in front of me right now, but if memory serves its about $6.8 million this year.

And that's actually one of the real problems with such a trade.  The Warriors can't make the trade straight up -- they'd have to send at least another $1.5 or so million, and they don't have that kind of expendable player on the roster.  Their team is full of players who are largely useful to them this year.  Maybe they'd be willing to swap Crowder and Barnes if they felt the difference wasn't that great this year.  But they'd also have to give up a second player who's useful to them just to make salaries work, and then the Celtics would also have to release their own useful player or prospect to make room on the roster for this player, or find a third team willing to take him on.

So while in a salary vacuum there are some valid arguments for and against such a deal on both sides, once you start trying to work it with the cap it quickly bogs down into something much more complicated for two teams with little-to-no roster dead weight.

I know that response doesn't address most of what you said, but you're the first one here to mention salaries, and that is why such a trade idea is really DOA.