Author Topic: Would you take Kobe?  (Read 3753 times)

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Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2015, 06:38:59 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Absolutely - if the context is as you have described (no other star is available, we have a ton of cap space with nobody to spend it on, and he's on a one year deal) then why in god's name wouldn't you?

Kobe's mentality would make him an outstanding fit for this team, and vice versa.  Almost all of the guys on this team are hard working, team-first, high motor guys who play hard every night.  Kobe respects the hell out of guys like that.

With Kobe on this team he would draw so much defensive attention that it would take pressure off everybody, and we have so much depth that he wouldn't have to play 35 minutes a game - he could cruise at 25-28 minutes a night and you'd probably see all of his stats (FG%, 3PT%, turnovers, etc) improve as a result.

I think Kobe would respect Brad Stevens as a coach (if he got Rondo's respect, then he can get anybody's respect) and i know Kobe would have nothing but respect for the Celtics as a franchise because that's just the type of player he is.

He would leave it all on the floor every night, and his work ethic in practice and in games would push everybody to work harder.

Kobe is a terrible fit on any team that has chemistry issues, selfish players or guys who don't take things seriously - hence why somebody like Dwight Howard never got along with him.  That's why I'd never put Kobe on the Kings or the Clippers (I think he would slap DeAndre Jordan at some point). 

But on a team like this he would thrive, and he would make us an instant contender.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 06:47:59 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Yuck.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2015, 06:51:36 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Kobe's 37 this year, will be 38 next year.  This is a guy who shot 37% from the field and 29% from 3 last year.  His team was 11-25 in games he played last year (23 win pace).  Hasn't had a healthy season since '13.  I don't expect much from him this year, let alone next year.  If he's supposed to be your best player, your team is in trouble.

So what you're saying is that Kobe missed almost an entire season due to a major injury, didn't play basketball for something like 6 months, then he came back to a team full of scrubs where he had to play 35 minutes a game and do absolutely everything (because everybody else on the team was 100% useless).

And after all that, in the 35 games after his return, he happened to put up the worst shooting numbers of his professional basketball career?

I mean wow, shooting low percentages is not at all expected for somebody playing under those circumstances is it?  ::)

Reality is that in the 18 years he'd been in the league prior to last season, Kobe has never shot below 40% from the field.  He's shot below 30% from three only 3 times, and one of those was 2013/14 (when he only played 6 games before suffering a season ending surgery).

Hell, in the four preseason games he's played so far he's averaged 27 points, 3.5 assists and 3 rebounds per 36-Minutes while shooting 48.6% FG, 45.0% 3PT and 92.3% FT. 

People talk about Kobe as if the guy has forgotten how to score.  He's one of the top 5 or so scorers the league has seen in the past 20 years, and his level of motivation (work ethic, passion, desire to win) is second to none.  If there is anybody who can come back from an injury at 37 it's going to be Kobe.   

Also what was the point of highlighting the Laker's 11-25 (.305) win record and 23 win game pace while Kobe was on the team?  I can only assume it was an attempt to make Kobe look bad by suggesting that having him on the court made his team worse.  If that was the intention then it failed, because the team eventually finished 21-61 (0.256) so their '23 win pace' with Kobe was clearly better than their 21 game eventual finish without him. 

I also don't understand the use of "if he's supposed to be your best player, your team is in trouble" as a valid argument for why you wouldn't want Kobe on this team.  I mean, who exactly is OUR best player right now?  David Lee?  Isaiah Thomas?  Avery Bradley?  I ask this because I can guarantee you that Kobe (even at 37 years old and coming off a major season ending injury) is still at least twice as good as any player on our roster.

Of course making such a signing would be a gamble.  Of course there is a risk that he will re-injure himself and miss another season.  But who cares? The OP already determined that this assumes we have an abundance of cap space, and there is nobody else to sign, and the deal is only for one year.  Even if Kobe misses the season it makes no difference - his contract expires after the season so the deal doesn't affect us the following season...and there's nobody else to sign so it doesn't affect us during that season.  If nothing else Kobe can sit on the bench as a mentor for the young guys.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 07:23:03 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 07:22:16 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Would I take Kobe Bean Bryant in Celtics Green?

Absolutely.

"IF" this team had some things fall in place, get a star or two, and perhaps have Kobe fit into Brad's system? "AND" if those "pieces" (whoever they could be) would give us a LEGITIMATE shot at Banner 18?

Sign Kobe Bean Bryant - in Celtics Green.

Not Trolling you all, either...I've been here long enough for most of you to know that.

This man has gotten a TON of praise from Larry himself...wasn't it Larry who said he'd chose KOBE over LeBron?

Kobe was being considered by BOS - back in the day:



I wonder what would've happened if he lasted until our pick back then?

We already had ONE All-Time great in BOS - and we were a dominant team with him in the middle, at least for the 1st half of that season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCWYYooniac

Why not Kobe?

He was there for us to pick---but we drafted Antoine Walker....Charlotte took him---and the Brilliant DAVE COWENS traded him to LA for Vlade Divac---Saying: "We don't need a high school player on our team".
Good move DAVE-!

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Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 07:56:40 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Would I take Kobe Bean Bryant in Celtics Green?

Absolutely.

"IF" this team had some things fall in place, get a star or two, and perhaps have Kobe fit into Brad's system? "AND" if those "pieces" (whoever they could be) would give us a LEGITIMATE shot at Banner 18?

Sign Kobe Bean Bryant - in Celtics Green.

Not Trolling you all, either...I've been here long enough for most of you to know that.

This man has gotten a TON of praise from Larry himself...wasn't it Larry who said he'd chose KOBE over LeBron?

Kobe was being considered by BOS - back in the day:



I wonder what would've happened if he lasted until our pick back then?

We already had ONE All-Time great in BOS - and we were a dominant team with him in the middle, at least for the 1st half of that season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCWYYooniac

Why not Kobe?

He was there for us to pick---but we drafted Antoine Walker....Charlotte took him---and the Brilliant DAVE COWENS traded him to LA for Vlade Divac---Saying: "We don't need a high school player on our team".
Good move DAVE-!

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/1996.html

Nice find...could not remember if we could've drafted him or not.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2015, 08:15:47 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Celtics Basketball is a sport in itself - with Red, Bill, Cooz, Hondo, and Co laying the foundation.

Players like Kobe would've fit...players with that hunger, desire.

Kobe would fit even now - given the right pieces around him.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2015, 08:24:04 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Celtics Basketball is a sport in itself - with Red, Bill, Cooz, Hondo, and Co laying the foundation.

Players like Kobe would've fit...players with that hunger, desire.

Kobe would fit even now - given the right pieces around him.

We would've had a love-hate relationship with Kobe for a while, because he had that championship arrogance before he had any championship rings.  But Kobe-Pierce would've been an absolutely sick wing combo, provided they didn't kill each other first. 

Kobe wasn't good enough his rookie year to change our pick much either - in fact, having him instead of Walker's strong rookie season might've given us a better pick, where we probably would've taken Dirk.  I love PP but Kobe-Dirk for 15 years or so would've been scary.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2015, 08:34:53 PM »

Offline Granath

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No. Hell No. Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. No. No to the 10th degree.

(1) He's washed up. He's had one season out of the last 4 where he's played more than 60 games. He's played exactly 25% of the games the last two seasons. His FG percentage during that time has bottomed out (eFG of .445 and .411). He simply isn't a star anymore beyond his name recognition. The Celtics did this with 'Nique and it didn't work out very well when he was 35 years old. There's zero reason to think it would work with Kobe at 38.

(2) Kobe's reputation as a cancer is well founded. There's no doubt that he works hard and wants to be the best but he's a ball hog and he's unduly hard on his teammates. He has never been considered a team player in his entire career. That's not the type of guy a team of young, impressionable guys need. If you want a role model, there are far better ones out there - guys like KG and Pierce who have also worked their asses off but also are known as good teammates and know what the Celtics Green is all about.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2015, 08:35:14 PM »

Offline Jon

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Others have put it well: the problem isn't Kobe or even the Laker connection, it's the circumstances. Kobe is too old and beat up to make us a contender or help us recruit other stars. But he would have made a great addition in the Big Three Era (even at his current skill level and condition) and obviously would have been a no brainer in his prime on any team.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2015, 09:07:23 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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No. Hell No. **** No. No to the 10th degree.

(1) He's washed up. He's had one season out of the last 4 where he's played more than 60 games. He's played exactly 25% of the games the last two seasons. His FG percentage during that time has bottomed out (eFG of .445 and .411). He simply isn't a star anymore beyond his name recognition. The Celtics did this with 'Nique and it didn't work out very well when he was 35 years old. There's zero reason to think it would work with Kobe at 38.

He isn't a star anymore?

Over those 'last 4 seasons' Kobe has averaged 26.1 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists.  Those are indisputable superstar numbers.

Over the past two seasons (which where his stats were obviously deflated significantly due to season ending injuries) he has averaged 21.1 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.7 assists.  Those are definite All-Star caliber numbers.

Obviously he is not the player he was when he was 28 years old (especially defensively) but even at his age Kobe is still a star, and I can all but guarantee you he will produce like a star.

I'll be VERY surprised if he averages dip much below that this season.  Even if he is put on minutes restrictions, I'd still expect his Per-36 numbers to be right up there with what he's put up over the last 2 years at least.

Karl Malone and Michael Jordan were still putting up All-Star when they were 39 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe follows in their footsteps.

(2) Kobe's reputation as a cancer is well founded. There's no doubt that he works hard and wants to be the best but he's a ball hog and he's unduly hard on his teammates. He has never been considered a team player in his entire career. That's not the type of guy a team of young, impressionable guys need. If you want a role model, there are far better ones out there - guys like KG and Pierce who have also worked their asses off but also are known as good teammates and know what the Celtics Green is all about.

That ball hog has averaged over 5 assists a game for his career, and his harsh / mean attitude has helped earn him 5 championship rings.

I understand what you're saying but lets be honest - most of the players who have taken issue with Kobe's "harshness" have been players who were either soft, lazy or childish by nature. 

Of course guys like that aren't going to mesh well with Kobe because he's the type of guy who expects everybody on the team to put in 100% effort in every training and every game and to play every game like it's their last.  If you have guys who don't put in the effort then he's going to get frustrated with those guys, and they are going to get frustrated with him.

I look at our team and I see a team full of hard working, high character players.  With the exception of maybe Sully, Turner or James Young, I can't really think of anybody else on this roster who I feel would have a problem with Kobe.  I think guys like Crowder, Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Lee, Johnson, Thomas (etc) would forge love affairs with Kobe overnight.

He might even light a bit of a confidence rocket under the backside of guys like Olynyk and Zeller - guys who seem to be very hard working, but just lack that "edge".

Honestly, I feel like any guys who are too soft to handle Kobe's intensity really aren't "Celtics" to begin with.

That "mean" nature that Kobe carries has a lot to do with why he has those things.  Kevin Garnett had that same characteristics - I seriously doubt he would have gotten along with guys like Dwight Howard any better than Kobe did.  Can't see KG getting along with players who are lazy and/or immature - yet without KG we would have no banner #17.

 
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 09:19:38 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2015, 09:20:41 PM »

Offline viulo

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In those circumstances, yes, definitely. But I wouldn't play him more than 25/30 minutes a game, at least during the regular season.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2015, 09:54:09 PM »

Offline Granath

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He isn't a star anymore?

Over those 'last 4 seasons' Kobe has averaged 26.1 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists.  Those are indisputable superstar numbers.

Over the past two seasons (which where his stats were obviously deflated significantly due to season ending injuries) he has averaged 21.1 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.7 assists.  Those are still very much All-Star star numbers.

Obviously he is not the player he was when he was 28 years old (especially defensively) but even at his age Kobe is still a star, and I can all but guarantee you he will produce like a star.

I'll be VERY surprised if he averages any less than about 20 Pts, 5 Reb  and 4 Ast Per 36 this season.  I'm pretty confidence he'll average better than that.

You may, or may not, be surprised this season. But raw stats don't really matter here if he's grossly inefficient and that he's been the last couple of years. This is a guy whose VORP was around 5 to 6, whose BMP was around 5 and who was good for double-digit win shares.

The last two years? VORP is basically 0, BPM is about flat and whose win shares are 0. His last good season was going on three years ago. He's 37. He's played 47,000 minutes of professional basketball (more on this in a minute). He's played in 25% of the games over the last two years. Odds are that he's not going to rebound to form. If he's LUCKY he'll be like Jordan on the Wizards - putting up what sound like decent stats but in reality not helping the team much when you look at them closely because they're due to volume and not quality.

Now back to that number. 47,000 minutes. There are two players in NBA history who actually had decent production after that many minutes. Karl Malone was good until about 51k minutes and Kareem's last truly good season was when he had about 50k. That's it and both of those guys had two of the best PGs ever getting them the ball (Stockton, Magic) and had the benefit of being in the same system forever. That's the entire list. Everyone else who had that many minutes was done as a player - and mind you Kobe is coming off of two years full of injuries. You're basically projecting him to do something that no one - EVER - has done in the history of the NBA, which is for him to produce at a high level after 47k minutes, at 37 years old, without a top flight PG and after 2 injury-prone years. It's laughable.

Now what's even funnier is that even if he does produce - pulls off a first in NBA history to do it - you're advocating him to come when he's even older and has more miles on the tires. Even if your best-case scenario pans out, you'd still be dealing with a 38 year old guy with 50,000 minutes who would be changing systems to come to Boston. Seriously, you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery than making the scenario you're trying to paint work. It's that unrealistic.

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That 'ball hog' has averaged over 5 assists a game for his career. 

So did Rick Barry. That didn't make him a good teammate.

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Also that guy who is overly hard on his teammates and isn't a team player - he has 5 championship rings.

I'm not going to dismiss his contribution in winning the NBA Finals 5 times. But it's not like he did that alone - in 3 of those he wasn't even the best player on his team. The other two were against the Celtics (who only lost because the refs gave the Lakers 16 free throws in the 4th quarter of game 7) and against an overmatched Orlando team. No one is trying to say he wasn't a great player.

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I understand what you're saying but lets be honest - most of the players who have taken issue with Kobe's "harshness" have been players who were either soft, lazy or childish by nature. 

Of course guys like that aren't going to mesh well with Kobe because he's the type of guy who expects everybody on the team to put in 100% effort in every training and every game and to play every game like it's their last.  If you have guys who don't put in the effort then he's going to get frustrated with those guys, and they are going to get frustrated with him.

I look at our team and I see a team full of hard working, high character players.  With the exception of maybe Sully, Turner or James Young, I can't really think of anybody else on this roster who I feel would have a problem with Kobe.  I think guys like Crowder, Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Lee, Johnson, Thomas (etc) would forge love affairs with Kobe overnight.

He might even light a bit of a confidence rocket under the backside of guys like Olynyk and Zeller - guys who seem to be very hard working, but just lack that "edge".

Honestly, I feel like any guys who are too soft to handle Kobe's intensity really aren't "Celtics" to begin with.

That "mean" nature that Kobe carries has a lot to do with why he has those things.  Kevin Garnett had that same characteristics - I seriously doubt he would have gotten along with guys like Dwight Howard any better than Kobe did.  Can't see KG getting along with players who are lazy and/or immature - yet without KG we would have no banner #17.

Shaq was soft? Steve Nash was soft? Really?

There's no doubt Kobe works hard. But by most accounts, you not only have to bust your ass, you have to kiss his ring for him to not be a jerk. This is a guy who bragged about making a teammate cry. Remember last year when the Lakers were supposed to land a top FA? They didn't and there were a lot of anonymous quotes about how nobody wanted to play with Kobe. A simple Google search brings all of this up. This is the kind of **** you put up with if Kobe's on your team: http://gamedayr.com/sports/nba/video-kobe-calls-out-teammates-127808/

KG was willing to change his game for the benefit of the team. Kobe has never done that. Kobe wants to be the star. That's OK. Jordan wanted to be the star. Magic wanted to be the star. Even Larry wanted to be the star. But the difference is that those guys made everyone else around them better. Kobe doesn't. He was enormously talented but for all of his talent he simply didn't make the guys around him better.

So what you have is an oft-injured, old player who isn't worth the trouble anymore. He's never been a mentor or someone who was willing to change his game. Your projection of the Celtics players "forging love affairs" with Kobe is straight out of Fantasyland. The only one Kobe loves is Kobe.

And, of course, the Cs already have Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Thomas and Hunter who all need minutes at PG/SG. Some of those guys have earned them (Bradley, Smart and IT) and others need the minutes to develop (and I didn't even mention Young). Putting in Kobe just stunts their growth for no long term benefit.

To summarize, there's not one redeeming factor in this line of thought. It's truly that bad of an idea.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 10:13:29 PM by Granath »
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2015, 08:59:55 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I can't think of one good reason to bring Kobe to Boston.  none.  not one.  nada.

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2015, 09:31:00 AM »

Offline MikeJelly

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Only reason I could ever see the C's getting him would be if he is to be had for DIRT CHEAP and that the C's see such potential in Young that they bring Kobe to bring it out in him. But thats it. Im not about seeing Kobe in C green

Re: Would you take Kobe?
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2015, 08:52:19 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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I can't think of one good reason to bring Kobe to Boston.  none.  not one.  nada.

It would be a Mike Tyson-caliber punch to the gut to most Lakers fans, if you'd consider that a good reason.

Otherwise I agree.  No good reason at all.