Whose rebuild is better? BOS vs LAL

[tankcity!]

I think if you see a Cousins trade, it could be for Randle + Hibbert (I think Hibbert has a 1 year 15 mil deal that makes it work financially).   From what I've seen of Randle so far (and it's still very early), the kid looks legit and his defensive "flaws" may in fact be overblown.

I'm sorry, but I'll just never understand your Randle fascination.

Well I think going into the draft there was a bit of a consensus (even from the Celtics) that Randle was the more talented prospect.  There remains people who believe Randle will be a 20/10 guy.  You clearly don't understand that.  It's fine if you don't understand it.  I'm just saying we will need to revisit this at some point.  This is a fluid situation.  A few months from now, you might understand it... or maybe he'll look like crap.

I'll say that in a very small irrelevant sample size over the past two games, he does seem to be a force offensively, a force on the glass and a potential impact defender.   You apparently think it's impossible that the 20 year old develops into a better basketball player than Marcus Smart.   I don't think it's impossible.

I didn't expect to see a kid with his size/strength taking the ball up the court the way he has over the past two games.  I'm rather surprised by his handles, passing and court awareness... it's something to keep an eye on.  Last two games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp9tESYuPc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5HImQQHKgk

And I wouldn't rule out seeing him as the focus of a Cousins trade.

Holy crap, he looks really good. I def can see at least project him to be an18 and ten player. That's going to be tough for Smart to beat. Only time will tell I guess. But you're right, Randle looks good.

[vjcsmoke]

Is Randle even going to be better than Sullinger?  I have my doubts about that one.

Smart looks like he is going to have a breakout season as well, so why get too excited about 2 preseason games?  I'm not going to declare us future NBA champs after we destroyed 2 teams overseas.  And I'm not putting Randle in the Hall of Fame after two good preseason games either.  Calm down!

And a Randle+Hibbert for Cousins trade straight up is ridiculous.  The Lakers would have to add a LOT more.  Randle+Russell+unprotected 1sts and matching salary would be minimum required imo.  Just look at the package Minnesota recently got for Kevin Love.

[MBunge]

Smart vs. Randle is a futile comparison, given that only one has actually, you know, played in the NBA.

The rebuild question is simple to answer.  Ainge has now unloaded every major player from the previous regime, except Bradley, and after missing only one year of the playoffs has already reconstructed a roster that looks to be at least mediocre, while still having loads of cap space and a car load of additional draft picks.

The Lakers have a couple very young players with potential, lots of cap space and...that's about it.  They've got a hodgepodge roster of guys, over 80% of whom probably won't be around the next time the team makes the playoffs.  They're also likely going to waste this entire season trying to placate Kobe only to wind up sending their 1st round pick to Philly.

Mike

[colincb]

They have Russell who supposedly has the highest bust potential according to ESPN stat guru Pelton and who had a poor summer league.  Randle should be a good player offensively, but was ranked lower in most mock drafts than Smart and did nothing in two summer leagues to bolster any sense that he was better than Smart. Beyond that, the cupboard is bare of current assets. The Lakers have to give up two firsts in the next 3-5 years as well as a couple of seconds. Anyone who thinks they're in a better place than the Cs is willfully ignorant.

[Csfan1984]

I think if you see a Cousins trade, it could be for Randle + Hibbert (I think Hibbert has a 1 year 15 mil deal that makes it work financially).   From what I've seen of Randle so far (and it's still very early), the kid looks legit and his defensive "flaws" may in fact be overblown.

I'm sorry, but I'll just never understand your Randle fascination.

Well I think going into the draft there was a bit of a consensus (even from the Celtics) that Randle was the more talented prospect.  There remains people who believe Randle will be a 20/10 guy.  You clearly don't understand that.  It's fine if you don't understand it.  I'm just saying we will need to revisit this at some point.  This is a fluid situation.  A few months from now, you might understand it... or maybe he'll look like crap.

I'll say that in a very small irrelevant sample size over the past two games, he does seem to be a force offensively, a force on the glass and a potential impact defender.   You apparently think it's impossible that the 20 year old develops into a better basketball player than Marcus Smart.   I don't think it's impossible.

I didn't expect to see a kid with his size/strength taking the ball up the court the way he has over the past two games.  I'm rather surprised by his handles, passing and court awareness... it's something to keep an eye on.  Last two games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp9tESYuPc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5HImQQHKgk

And I wouldn't rule out seeing him as the focus of a Cousins trade.

Holy crap, he looks really good. I def can see at least project him to be an18 and ten player. That's going to be tough for Smart to beat. Only time will tell I guess. But you're right, Randle looks good.

I wouldn't say he looks good. He looks completely out of control with the ball and still trying to use brute force. No improvement from college.

[jambr380]

The thing about LAL is that their entire future hinges on how Randle and Russell develop, while Boston has so many additional avenues available to them to be successful.

If LAL wanted to make a trade for Cousins using Randle and Russell, I think they may have missed their opportunity. BOTH of them would have to excel this season - if not, the mystery / allure of being high draft picks will be over.

Also, I am a definitely a fan of yours LarBrd and think that some of your 'pessimism' turns people off before seeing how well thought out / informed your posts are, but I can't get behind this comment.

It was a bold move taking Smart over him.

It seemed pretty clear to a lot of us that Smart was going to be the pick (for better or worse). I think many thought that there was also a chance that Vonleh would be selected before Randle.

[Moranis]

Is Randle even going to be better than Sullinger?  I have my doubts about that one.

Smart looks like he is going to have a breakout season as well, so why get too excited about 2 preseason games?  I'm not going to declare us future NBA champs after we destroyed 2 teams overseas.  And I'm not putting Randle in the Hall of Fame after two good preseason games either.  Calm down!

And a Randle+Hibbert for Cousins trade straight up is ridiculous.  The Lakers would have to add a LOT more.  Randle+Russell+unprotected 1sts and matching salary would be minimum required imo.  Just look at the package Minnesota recently got for Kevin Love.

Minnesota got Andrew Wiggins, Thad Young, and Anthony Bennett.  Young got flipped for Garnett and Bennett just got cut.  So basically Andrew Wiggins, who had never played in the NBA.  Wiggins obviously was a great prospect, one of the best to enter the league in awhile, and he had an excellent rookie season, but that isn't exactly some massive haul either.  Wiggins is better than Randle and Hibbert obviously, but I'm not so sure he is better than Randle + Russell from a pure prospect position.

[LarBrd33]

If ya'll believe the articles that were coming out a mere 24 hours before the draft, the team was still undecided between Randle and Smart:  http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/6/25/5843594/rumor-celtics-down-to-smart-or-randle-at-6

Seemed Ainge liked Gordon more than both and would have taken him... but the top preference was to try to trade up to get Embiid.  When those two options were off the table, they had to choose between Randle and Smart.  Randle had declined a second workout with Boston.  Smart was impressive in his second workout.   Considering that Rondo was on his way out and the team was loaded at PF, it makes total sense why Smart was our pick.  But you guys are kidding yourselves if you think it was an easy decision.   

And obviously it's not possible to compare these guys right now.  Randle played 14 minutes of basketball.  That's why I repeatedly keep saying we'll need to "revisit this" and "keep an eye on it".   It's a waste of time to compare them right now.  But don't be shocked if months/years from now you see a bunch of rabblerousers complaining that Ainge blew it.

[pokeKingCurtis]

By the same token, it's also entirely possible that Randle pans out a worse pick than Smart.

[colincb]

If ya'll believe the articles that were coming out a mere 24 hours before the draft, the team was still undecided between Randle and Smart:  http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/6/25/5843594/rumor-celtics-down-to-smart-or-randle-at-6

Seemed Ainge liked Gordon more than both and would have taken him... but the top preference was to try to trade up to get Embiid.  When those two options were off the table, they had to choose between Randle and Smart.  Randle had declined a second workout with Boston.  Smart was impressive in his second workout.   Considering that Rondo was on his way out and the team was loaded at PF, it makes total sense why Smart was our pick.  But you guys are kidding yourselves if you think it was an easy decision.   

And obviously it's not possible to compare these guys right now.  Randle played 14 minutes of basketball.  That's why I repeatedly keep saying we'll need to "revisit this" and "keep an eye on it".   It's a waste of time to compare them right now.  But don't be shocked if months/years from now you see a bunch of rabblerousers complaining that Ainge blew it.

Good for you for finding that. Apparently Givony got quoted in a few articles, but it wasn’t widespread. It’s also at odds with what the Cs said and what was being reported by most outlets.

Boston Globe:

The draft lottery was held May 20 and the Celtics ended up with the sixth pick. They condensed their list, with Smart and Arizona forward Aaron Gordon rising to the top. …

“About two weeks before the draft,” Lewin [Cs director of scouting] said, “it became clear to me that out of the players who had the potential to be available to us, Danny was most comfortable with and most excited about Marcus.”…

Said Danny Ainge: “Our staff was not on the same page before that. His second workout allowed us to collectively and unanimously be on the same page.”

Local beatwriters were talking Embiid, if he got by the Sixers, Smart and Gordon, and even MA native Vonleh before he slid late. As I posted before, none of the major sites had Randle coming here in their mocks.

[Ilikesports17]

I think if you see a Cousins trade, it could be for Randle + Hibbert (I think Hibbert has a 1 year 15 mil deal that makes it work financially).   From what I've seen of Randle so far (and it's still very early), the kid looks legit and his defensive "flaws" may in fact be overblown.

I'm sorry, but I'll just never understand your Randle fascination.

Well I think going into the draft there was a bit of a consensus (even from the Celtics) that Randle was the more talented prospect.  There remains people who believe Randle will be a 20/10 guy.  You clearly don't understand that.  It's fine if you don't understand it.  I'm just saying we will need to revisit this at some point.  This is a fluid situation.  A few months from now, you might understand it... or maybe he'll look like crap.

I'll say that in a very small irrelevant sample size over the past two games, he does seem to be a force offensively, a force on the glass and a potential impact defender.   You apparently think it's impossible that the 20 year old develops into a better basketball player than Marcus Smart.   I don't think it's impossible.

I didn't expect to see a kid with his size/strength taking the ball up the court the way he has over the past two games.  I'm rather surprised by his handles, passing and court awareness... it's something to keep an eye on.  Last two games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp9tESYuPc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5HImQQHKgk

And I wouldn't rule out seeing him as the focus of a Cousins trade.

Right now Randle isn't worth half of Demarcus Cousins, so when you say you wouldn't be surprised if he's the centerpiece of a Demarcus Cousins deal it sounds ridiculous. However he does have some good potential. Not necessarily superstar potential but he does look like he could be really good. In a best case scenario he could hope to reach a level where he could be a Cousins centerpiece but it is
Far far from likely

[Csfan1984]

Most teams were still linked to multiple players. Only surprise that draft was Gordon which shook things up. Before that I think most felt order would be
Cavs-Wiggins lock
Bucks-Parker lock
Sixers-Embid or Exum
Magic-Exum or Embid
Jazz-Smart or Randle
C's-Smart, Gordon or Randle
LA-Gordon, Smart or Randle
Kings-Staukus or McBuckets


Gordon went 4th and then Magic later took Payton for their PG. Smart then became available to C's.

[cb8883]

36 posters are delusional.  Russell is better than anyone on this roster, period. Julius Randle is better than Banks 2.0. Clarkson is probably the Celtics 2nd or 3rd best player. This isn't saying everything is rosy in LA but they are the gold standard in the NBA so I also highly doubt the Celtics beat them out for any free agents. Celtics need to be blown up again. Amir Johnson David Lee and Isiah Thomas should not be on a rebuilding club

[Denis998]

36 posters are delusional.  Russell is better than anyone on this roster, period. Julius Randle is better than Banks 2.0. Clarkson is probably the Celtics 2nd or 3rd best player. This isn't saying everything is rosy in LA but they are the gold standard in the NBA so I also highly doubt the Celtics beat them out for any free agents. Celtics need to be blown up again. Amir Johnson David Lee and Isiah Thomas should not be on a rebuilding club

IT4 is better than Russell, period.

[PhoSita]

Really amused at the idea Jordan Clarkson would be the Celts 2nd or 3rd best player.