Katie Nolan re: Greg Hardy

[PhoSita]

I don't equate compliments about the attractiveness of a lingerie model with domestic violence.

Neither do I, but it clearly has something to do with his attitude toward women, i.e. that they are less worthy of respect than men and that they exist to some extent for the sake of his pleasure of viewing them, similar to a sports car or a fancy new jumbotron.

Like I said, out of context it's just a bit of a poor-taste comment, but in context it comes off as really sleezy.  I think he was enjoying the fact that here he is back playing in the NFL after only 4 games and so he kind of exults in that by going out of his way to make a comment about women.  He's smirking at his own freedom.  That's what makes it offensive.

[PhoSita]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

[Roy H.]

I don't equate compliments about the attractiveness of a lingerie model with domestic violence.

Neither do I, but it clearly has something to do with his attitude toward women, i.e. that they are less worthy of respect than men and that they exist to some extent for the sake of his pleasure of viewing them, similar to a sports car or a fancy new jumbotron.

I don't think that's true, at all.  Saying a guy has a hot wife doesn't mean that the wife is somehow a possession or a lessor human being.  That very likely is the case with Greg Hardy, but I don't find the comment to be particularly offensive.  Heck, President Obama said worse things about Kamala Harris (i.e., "by far the most beautiful attorney general in the country"), but I'm not going to say that that says something about his attitude toward women, other than that he is attracted to members of the opposite sex.

[Roy H.]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

If Katie Nolan is actually outraged, rather than just putting on an act for television, she is a huge hypocrite.  You should go back and watch some of her shows, to see the things she thinks are worthy of jokes.  Her act is full of sexual (sexist) and racial (racist) references and humor.

[Donoghus]

Rachel Nichols came at Goodell. Typical Roger response.

[fairweatherfan]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

Sure, I'm just saying the real story is about Greg Hardy's character and more broadly the misogynistic attitudes woven into NFL culture, not anything he actually said during the interview.  The comments just make a convenient intro into the real story.  Which is fine, using recent examples are a good way for journalists/pundits to lead into that kind of broader commentary. 

But like I said, it's not like more appropriate responses would somehow make him a better person, so the converse is that these responses may be very poorly chosen, but they don't actually change anything about the bigger story, they just exemplify it in a journalistically convenient way.

[PhoSita]

I don't equate compliments about the attractiveness of a lingerie model with domestic violence.

Neither do I, but it clearly has something to do with his attitude toward women, i.e. that they are less worthy of respect than men and that they exist to some extent for the sake of his pleasure of viewing them, similar to a sports car or a fancy new jumbotron.

I don't think that's true, at all.  Saying a guy has a hot wife doesn't mean that the wife is somehow a possession or a lessor human being.  That very likely is the case with Greg Hardy, but I don't find the comment to be particularly offensive.  Heck, President Obama said worse things about Kamala Harris (i.e., "by far the most beautiful attorney general in the country"), but I'm not going to say that that says something about his attitude toward women, other than that he is attracted to members of the opposite sex.

I understand where you're coming from.  Stating something ostensibly complementary about somebody else's appearance is on the surface a "nice" thing to do, not a negative.

Try to think about it in the context of society at large, though.  The vast majority of what gets said about women in our culture is a commentary on appearance, with the underlying implication being that a woman's appearance is her most important attribute and the primary source of her value.

I think objectifying other people is pretty much impossible to avoid.  We're wired for sexual attraction, and so we regularly see other people we find attractive without knowing anything about them as people.  We think about their bodies and not the person.

I just think that going out of your way to mention it like that, when it's not even the topic of discussion at hand, is almost an aggressive move, like you're making a point to stake some kind of claim to objectify another human being, and enjoy doing it.  Sort of implying that that is what she exists for, to be admired, much like an expensive sports car or a huge plasma TV suspended from the ceiling of a sports arena.

It's similar to when sports commentators take time in their broadcast to stop and comment on women sitting in the stands, like that has something to do with the game.  Why do it?  Why do you think it's a polite or respectful thing to say?  I know it seems like making a big deal out of a seemingly innocuous comment, but it's an opportunity to challenge an underlying assumption that I think is at play, which is that women exist to be enjoyed as objects, first and foremost.

And of course, all of that looks a lot worse when it comes out of the mouth of an unapologetic domestic abuser like Greg Hardy.

[PhoSita]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

Sure, I'm just saying the real story is about Greg Hardy's character and more broadly the misogynistic attitudes woven into NFL culture, not anything he actually said during the interview.  The comments just make a convenient intro into the real story.  Which is fine, using recent examples are a good way for journalists/pundits to lead into that kind of broader commentary. 

But like I said, it's not like more appropriate responses would somehow make him a better person, so the converse is that these responses may be very poorly chosen, but they don't actually change anything about the bigger story, they just exemplify it in a journalistically useful way.

Agreed.  I think this instance is more than anything an opportunity to comment on the bigger stuff that's at play.  I think Katie Nolan's outrage is very real and very understandable.  I can't begin to imagine the kind of things she has to put up with on a daily basis trying to make it in the field she works in.

[PhoSita]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

If Katie Nolan is actually outraged, rather than just putting on an act for television, she is a huge hypocrite.  You should go back and watch some of her shows, to see the things she thinks are worthy of jokes.  Her act is full of sexual (sexist) and racial (racist) references and humor.

I admit I haven't really watched anything else that she's done, so I can't comment on what she's said or done in the past.

[D.o.s.]

I think "used to be a bartender in Allston" covers Katie Nolan's on-air approach + demeanor pretty well, actually. Her blog used to be called b----hes can't hang, after all.

She's got more testicular fortitude than her obvious Boston-centric internet Sports Celebrity Commentator predecessor,  even if I don't pay regular attention to her.

[Moranis]

I'm with Roy on this one.  Pretty much a nonsensical take. 

[Roy H.]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

If Katie Nolan is actually outraged, rather than just putting on an act for television, she is a huge hypocrite.  You should go back and watch some of her shows, to see the things she thinks are worthy of jokes.  Her act is full of sexual (sexist) and racial (racist) references and humor.

I admit I haven't really watched anything else that she's done, so I can't comment on what she's said or done in the past.

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

[PhoSita]

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

She's got the "just one of the guys" thing going on, huh?

Well, that may be, but I still think the points raised in the video are valid.

[Donoghus]

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

She's got the "just one of the guys" thing going on, huh?

Well, that may be, but I still think the points raised in the video are valid.

Sounds like she'd fit right in as a female Fox News anchor then. 

Seriously, though, I think she raises some good points here.  She might not be the best one to deliver it given she might be rough around the edges but I think she's reached the point where her voice is a valid one.  She had some pretty solid commentaries back in her "Crowd Goes Wild" days.  I don't think she should be totally dismissed. 

[D.o.s.]

The idea that someone can't say something worthwhile based on their previous statements/behavior is fairly insipid, too.

You don't need to be the Church Lady to point out things like this.