Poll: WHO's better Lee or Sully

[KG Living Legend]

 If healthy Lee for me.

[max215]

Lee by a wide margin for me.

[D.o.s.]

Is this a serious poll?

[kozlodoev]

The obvious answer is Popeye, because he doubles up as fried chicken.

[Who]

If Sully is in decent shape, I think they are on a par with one another.

Have to wait and see on that.

[aingeforthree]

Lee by far.
He's an all star type forward who scores, rebounds, and can pass (quickest outlet passer who fits your running system).

[Celtics4ever]

Lee, it is not as close as some here think.   Otherwise, Sully would not be playing off the bench as much as he did today.

[mctyson]

If Sully is in decent shape, I think they are on a par with one another.

Have to wait and see on that.

I have said this a lot, and it might sound crazy, but Sully is the most talented player on the entire Celtics roster. 

I would be very wary of trading him only for that reason.  Having said that, there have been multiple NBA players with incredible talents that have not reached their potential for fitness/health/lifestyle reasons.  I fear Sully is already in that group so I would support trading him for that very reason.

[jambr380]

The question is, 'if healthy' and I am going to take that as meaning in shape as well. Moving forward, there is no doubt I would rather have a healthy/in shape Sully on my team than David Lee. With Lee's age, he can really only go down from here.

Trust me, I am as frustrated as anybody with Sully's lack of devotion to his diet and cardio, but I think they are probably about even right now (if in shape) with Sully taking the lead in years to come...unfortunately, I am not sure we ever see an in shape Sully.

[PhoSita]

Lee's a better finisher and passer.  His rebounding is similar to Sullinger's, and he doesn't have the floor spacing capability that Sully has.  Lee is also a bit quicker and springier than Sullinger, though he's obviously not a standout in those areas generally speaking.

Overall, I think Lee's definitely better, and I expect him to secure a starting role while Sully gets 10-20 minutes a night.  Bottom line, I don't think the Celts would have traded for Lee, regardless of what type of "asset" he might be, if they thought Sullinger was a good bet as a 30+ minute per night starter at PF.

[SHAQATTACK]

Lee handsdown

[travis]

Sully has peaked.  Excellent bench player, but he can't play starter minutes. 

[celtics24]

such a dumb response by so many on here..obviously its Sully..lee is 32 years old sully is 23..in what 15 min today sully had 14 points on 70% shooting and yet most of you on here too busy looking at his body ..he plays well high bball iq and a lot more potential..this shouldnt even be a question..the fact that sully wasnt starting today makes me want to slap stevens

[crimson_stallion]

Lee.

Sully seriously only has one potential benefit over Lee, which is three-point range.  I use the word 'potential' here because right now, that's really what it is.  As long as Sully is out there shooting < 30% from three, the defense has no need to take him seriously as a threat.  They'll let him chuck them up all day long and live with the consequences.

The issue with Sully though is that even if he does improve his shot to the point where he's a threat from three, that still doesn't become that big an asset because Sully's greatest strengths are his ability to score in the post, ability to pass from the post, and his ability to rebound. Living on the perimeter really just draws him away from the paint, which is where his biggest strengths (IMHO) lie.

Likewise he doesn't have the ball handling ability or the quickness to put the ball on the floor and drive if a defend does run at him to contest the three - the way Olynyk, Lee, Jerebko and Johnson all can.  All Sully can really do as a reaction is to either hold the ball and look for the pass, or force up a contested jumper.   Neither really does anything to make things hard for the defense.

I certainly think Sully is as skilled as Lee is, but Lee has two critical advantages that
make all the difference, which are:

1) Physical condition
2) Mental intangibles

They are not as easy to change as some people probably believe, since both are essentially an integral part of your personality (resulting from lifestyle, habits, upbringing, etc) and it's very, very difficult to change something so that so deeply rooted into who you are.  Bad habits are very hard to break - you really need to want it, and even then it will take every ounce of discipline and effort you can manage.

[crimson_stallion]

such a dumb response by so many on here..obviously its Sully..lee is 32 years old sully is 23..in what 15 min today sully had 14 points on 70% shooting and yet most of you on here too busy looking at his body ..he plays well high bball iq and a lot more potential..this shouldnt even be a question..the fact that sully wasnt starting today makes me want to slap stevens

Why so obvious?

Lee had 13 points, 7 rebounds and 3 assists in 21 minutes and shot 62%. 
Sully had 14 points, 4 rebounds and 1 assist in 15 minutes and shot 70%

If you look at those numbers across the board, both come out roughly on par.

Having watched the game though, it was blatantly obvious that Lee had more impact.  Every time he got on the floor he was aggressive in making things happen.  He was constantly creating offense - partly with his own scoring, but even more so by generating opportunities for others.  It honestly felt like Lee had a hand in everything that happened while he was on the court.   

Sully on the other hand was much more passively involved in the game.  He wasn't really aggressive in creating opportunities.  It seemed like most of the time he was just the beneficiary of somebody else's hard work - he was getting a ton of easy looks around the basket, and all he really had to do was finish them.

The basic stats might show Sully as having as much impact as Lee, but if you want a better reflection of their roles in the game just look at the +/- stats.  Lee led the team with a +22 while Sully's +5 was equal last on the team.

I know people hate +/- but if you actually watch this game, I think most would say that's a pretty accurate reflection of the impact those guys had.  Same with Crowder, Smart, Bradley, Thomas and Johnson - all of those guys made a huge impact every time the stepped on the court, and their +/- numbers reflected that. 

The only guy who I feel wasn't accurately was Mickey, who I felt had a much more positive impact than his +6 suggests.  Albiet he only played garbage time minutes, so that obviously brought impacted that number. 

In his defense I did like some things I saw from Sully.  I liked that he played far more inside and far less on the perimeter - that's something I've been wanting from him for ages now.  I also felt he seemed better conditioned.  He didn't really look very noticeably thinner, but he didn't seem go through the usual stages of sloppiness / laziness that he tends to go through as he fatigues through the course of a game.  That could indicate improved conditioning, or it could just be the fact that he only played 15 minutes.

Either way I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, and if he can convince me that he can do both of the above (play more inside and play with more consistent energy) then I'll be rooting for him.

Regardless, Lee is still the better player.