Bulls and Celtics trade idea: Noah and Mcdermott

[moiso]

I still think McDermott has a chance to turn out pretty good, especially now that Thibs is gone.  I don't see why he couldn't turn into a Szczerbiak type.
I agree with slamtheking that Noah is more of a final piece type of gamble.  I don't think he has several productive years left and it's even a gamble to think he will be healthy next year.

[Donoghus]

Bulls are not blowing it up yet.

[slamtheking]

I still think McDermott has a chance to turn out pretty good, especially now that Thibs is gone.  I don't see why he couldn't turn into a Szczerbiak type.
I agree with slamtheking that Noah is more of a final piece type of gamble.  I don't think he has several productive years left and it's even a gamble to think he will be healthy next year.

agreed - if we were closer to contention, as in a proven 50-53 win team, and our only hole was a defensive center that needed to play limited minutes, I'd be more inclined to do this and take the shot Noah puts us over the top.

what makes me gunshy about this is we have not done particularly well hoping older, questionable-health big men will stay healthy when they get here.  Jermaine, Shaq, Sheed (more conditioning and attitude than health) to make a point.

[Tr1boy]

I mean, the Bulls aren't going to trade Noah, their first round pick from last year plus another first round pick for this deal. I would assume we would have to add a first and take the one coming our way away.

I obviously do this deal. Noah might be on the decline but he is the defensive center that you need on a winning team. He's a playoff tested veteran that has had a lot of success. Comparing Dougie to Pierce is absolutely ludacris but he can be a serviceable forward off the bench to space the floor.

I make the trade but I'd change up the starting lineup you propose.

Noah
Lee
Crowder
Smart
IT

In this situation I don't think you can leave IT to the bench cause I wouldn't rely on Rozier to give good starters minutes. Allow Johnson to be the first big off the bench to sub in for Lee. I like Lee as a starter more so than Johnson cause it would be a nice offensive boost. KO then comes in for Noah. Lee/Noah and Johnson/KO balances out really well in my opinion. Trade leaves us a bit thin on the depth chart up front however.

Noah/KO
Lee/Johnson/McKey
Crowder/Jerebko/Dougie
Smart/Hunter/Young
IT/Rozier

DM was a scoring machine in college with very little support.
Like Pierce not the most athletic guy but crafty in finding ways to score all over the court. So maybe not like Pierce at peak but Pierce at a decline. Still a good starting sf in the league

[YoungOne87]

starting noah and johnson together seems redundant

[Tr1boy]

I still think McDermott has a chance to turn out pretty good, especially now that Thibs is gone.  I don't see why he couldn't turn into a Szczerbiak type.
I agree with slamtheking that Noah is more of a final piece type of gamble.  I don't think he has several productive years left and it's even a gamble to think he will be healthy next year.

agreed - if we were closer to contention, as in a proven 50-53 win team, and our only hole was a defensive center that needed to play limited minutes, I'd be more inclined to do this and take the shot Noah puts us over the top.

what makes me gunshy about this is we have not done particularly well hoping older, questionable-health big men will stay healthy when they get here.  Jermaine, Shaq, Sheed (more conditioning and attitude than health) to make a point.

Noah is not even that old

I wouldn't bank on signing him for the long run but we can afford to take the risk. BC we can't sign sully, Zeller long term anyways. 

[Tr1boy]

starting noah and johnson together seems redundant

Maybe but defensively you are secured. Especially late in games

[D.o.s.]

I mean, the Bulls aren't going to trade Noah, their first round pick from last year plus another first round pick for this deal. I would assume we would have to add a first and take the one coming our way away.

I obviously do this deal. Noah might be on the decline but he is the defensive center that you need on a winning team. He's a playoff tested veteran that has had a lot of success. Comparing Dougie to Pierce is absolutely ludacris but he can be a serviceable forward off the bench to space the floor.

I make the trade but I'd change up the starting lineup you propose.

Noah
Lee
Crowder
Smart
IT

In this situation I don't think you can leave IT to the bench cause I wouldn't rely on Rozier to give good starters minutes. Allow Johnson to be the first big off the bench to sub in for Lee. I like Lee as a starter more so than Johnson cause it would be a nice offensive boost. KO then comes in for Noah. Lee/Noah and Johnson/KO balances out really well in my opinion. Trade leaves us a bit thin on the depth chart up front however.

Noah/KO
Lee/Johnson/McKey
Crowder/Jerebko/Dougie
Smart/Hunter/Young
IT/Rozier

DM was a scoring machine in college with very little support.
Like Pierce not the most athletic guy but crafty in finding ways to score all over the court. So maybe not like Pierce at peak but Pierce at a decline. Still a good starting sf in the league

You said this while he was in the NCAA, and it was not correct.
You said this last year, and it was not correct.
You're saying it now, and it is still not correct.

Not only did McBuckets play in a system designed by his dad to get him a ton of shots and a whole bunch of college threes, he was seriously aided in that goal by Ethan Wragge and Jahenns Manigat -- who were bombing the hell of of the college three ball in ways that really hadn't been seen before. When your starting power forward is a guy who finished his four year college career with 55 attempted two pointers and saw essentially every shot he takes come from behind the arc, you're probably watching a gimmicky offense.

[Celtics4ever]

DM was a scoring machine in college with very little support.
Like Pierce not the most athletic guy but crafty in finding ways to score all over the court. So maybe not like Pierce at peak but Pierce at a decline. Still a good starting sf in the league

Whoa, hold the horses.   There is a big difference between being a stud at Creighton and Kansas.   How many NBA players did Doug face during the year, not as many as Pierce.   

[CsBanner18]

I still think McDermott has a chance to turn out pretty good, especially now that Thibs is gone.  I don't see why he couldn't turn into a Szczerbiak type.
I agree with slamtheking that Noah is more of a final piece type of gamble.  I don't think he has several productive years left and it's even a gamble to think he will be healthy next year.

agreed - if we were closer to contention, as in a proven 50-53 win team, and our only hole was a defensive center that needed to play limited minutes, I'd be more inclined to do this and take the shot Noah puts us over the top.

what makes me gunshy about this is we have not done particularly well hoping older, questionable-health big men will stay healthy when they get here.  Jermaine, Shaq, Sheed (more conditioning and attitude than health) to make a point.

Noah is not even that old

I wouldn't bank on signing him for the long run but we can afford to take the risk. BC we can't sign sully, Zeller long term anyways.

I agree! Noah is 30. Tired of hearing people say players are "too old" (Melo!). It's a good thing to have a mixture of young guys & veterans. Cp3 is 30. Dwight Howard will be 30 next year. Noah is not too old and he'll be fine this year in terms of health.

And why can't we sign Sully or Zeller?

[D.o.s.]

Noah is "only" 30 but, like Deng, playing for Thibs and Chicago's awful medical staff haven't done him any favors.

[Tr1boy]

I mean, the Bulls aren't going to trade Noah, their first round pick from last year plus another first round pick for this deal. I would assume we would have to add a first and take the one coming our way away.

I obviously do this deal. Noah might be on the decline but he is the defensive center that you need on a winning team. He's a playoff tested veteran that has had a lot of success. Comparing Dougie to Pierce is absolutely ludacris but he can be a serviceable forward off the bench to space the floor.

I make the trade but I'd change up the starting lineup you propose.

Noah
Lee
Crowder
Smart
IT

In this situation I don't think you can leave IT to the bench cause I wouldn't rely on Rozier to give good starters minutes. Allow Johnson to be the first big off the bench to sub in for Lee. I like Lee as a starter more so than Johnson cause it would be a nice offensive boost. KO then comes in for Noah. Lee/Noah and Johnson/KO balances out really well in my opinion. Trade leaves us a bit thin on the depth chart up front however.

Noah/KO
Lee/Johnson/McKey
Crowder/Jerebko/Dougie
Smart/Hunter/Young
IT/Rozier

DM was a scoring machine in college with very little support.
Like Pierce not the most athletic guy but crafty in finding ways to score all over the court. So maybe not like Pierce at peak but Pierce at a decline. Still a good starting sf in the league

You said this while he was in the NCAA, and it was not correct.
You said this last year, and it was not correct.
You're saying it now, and it is still not correct.

Not only did McBuckets play in a system designed by his dad to get him a ton of shots and a whole bunch of college threes, he was seriously aided in that goal by Ethan Wragge and Jahenns Manigat -- who were bombing the hell of of the college three ball in ways that really hadn't been seen before. When your starting power forward is a guy who finished his four year college career with 55 attempted two pointers and saw essentially every shot he takes come from behind the arc, you're probably watching a gimmicky offense.

Even if you "discovered" this plan, still Creighton had a bunch of D league calibre college players plus McDermott. DM double teamed for the majority of games was still able to score and do it efficiently

  CBS likes to open up the floor on the offensive end and DM could really benefit playing in such system. Defensively he is a decent team defender and has a good motor

[D.o.s.]

McDermott is not a decent team defender: he played on a great defensive team, and he played sparingly because he wasn't good enough on that end for Thibs. He could carve out an NBA role as a Mike Dunleavey type, but I think he'll be worse than either Jr. or Sr. in that role. I think that you're right when you say McBuckets could find some success in Stevens's system, but I don't think he's got a bright future as an NBA player.

And there was nothing to "discover" about Creighton's offense: it was well remarked upon by pretty much everyone that was paying attention. Here's a good article about it:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-plays-that-power-the-creighton-offense-the-best-in-1548217554

[pearljammer10]

I mean, the Bulls aren't going to trade Noah, their first round pick from last year plus another first round pick for this deal. I would assume we would have to add a first and take the one coming our way away.

I obviously do this deal. Noah might be on the decline but he is the defensive center that you need on a winning team. He's a playoff tested veteran that has had a lot of success. Comparing Dougie to Pierce is absolutely ludacris but he can be a serviceable forward off the bench to space the floor.

I make the trade but I'd change up the starting lineup you propose.

Noah
Lee
Crowder
Smart
IT

In this situation I don't think you can leave IT to the bench cause I wouldn't rely on Rozier to give good starters minutes. Allow Johnson to be the first big off the bench to sub in for Lee. I like Lee as a starter more so than Johnson cause it would be a nice offensive boost. KO then comes in for Noah. Lee/Noah and Johnson/KO balances out really well in my opinion. Trade leaves us a bit thin on the depth chart up front however.

Noah/KO
Lee/Johnson/McKey
Crowder/Jerebko/Dougie
Smart/Hunter/Young
IT/Rozier

DM was a scoring machine in college with very little support.
Like Pierce not the most athletic guy but crafty in finding ways to score all over the court. So maybe not like Pierce at peak but Pierce at a decline. Still a good starting sf in the league

You said this while he was in the NCAA, and it was not correct.
You said this last year, and it was not correct.
You're saying it now, and it is still not correct.

Not only did McBuckets play in a system designed by his dad to get him a ton of shots and a whole bunch of college threes, he was seriously aided in that goal by Ethan Wragge and Jahenns Manigat -- who were bombing the hell of of the college three ball in ways that really hadn't been seen before. When your starting power forward is a guy who finished his four year college career with 55 attempted two pointers and saw essentially every shot he takes come from behind the arc, you're probably watching a gimmicky offense.

Washing machines work hard but I'm not about to go start one at the guard position for us.

There is nothing that I have seen that would call Dougie a scoring machine with little support. He only played 36 games last year and like the above mentions hes basicaly a three point shooter who is terrible at defense. I can see him being groomed to replace Dunleavy as opposed to being the next declined Paul Pierce.

[slamtheking]

I still think McDermott has a chance to turn out pretty good, especially now that Thibs is gone.  I don't see why he couldn't turn into a Szczerbiak type.
I agree with slamtheking that Noah is more of a final piece type of gamble.  I don't think he has several productive years left and it's even a gamble to think he will be healthy next year.

agreed - if we were closer to contention, as in a proven 50-53 win team, and our only hole was a defensive center that needed to play limited minutes, I'd be more inclined to do this and take the shot Noah puts us over the top.

what makes me gunshy about this is we have not done particularly well hoping older, questionable-health big men will stay healthy when they get here.  Jermaine, Shaq, Sheed (more conditioning and attitude than health) to make a point.

Noah is not even that old

I wouldn't bank on signing him for the long run but we can afford to take the risk. BC we can't sign sully, Zeller long term anyways.

I agree! Noah is 30. Tired of hearing people say players are "too old" (Melo!). It's a good thing to have a mixture of young guys & veterans. Cp3 is 30. Dwight Howard will be 30 next year. Noah is not too old and he'll be fine this year in terms of health.

And why can't we sign Sully or Zeller?

in a vacuum, 30 isn't old.  but, there's 30 playing heavy minutes with reckless abandon and then there's 30 only exerting effort at one end of the floor.

Noah is an 'old' 30 in that he's played heavy minutes, particularly under Thibs, and he's always giving the full effort (which is what makes him very appealing as a player).

as for not being able to sign both Sully and Zeller --> why not?  neither is going to break the bank, particularly with the jump in the salary cap coming up.  If Sully has a break out year and deserves over $10 mill per year, all the better for us that he's stepped up his game to become a valuable player and trade asset.

as for the proposed trade, Dougie does nothing for me nor does yet another late first round pick.  While I like Noah as a player and would have loved to have acquired him prior to last year when we still had KG and PP, I think he's too little, too late in that regard (or too early if you consider what we have to be the building blocks for a title run).