Trades for some SF's

[Smitty77]

I am slightly fascinated with Robert Covington with Philly.  Unfortunately he is signed for 3 more years very cheaply.  He shots the three ball very efficiently, but not the two.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2490620/robert-covington

He is #10 on ESPN's real plus/minus:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/5

What would it take to get him?

If Batum has a decent year and is NOT happy in Charlotte, he might be a free agent to go after.

Several have mentioned Harrison Barnes, but I bet he stays in Golden State with a decent extension.

I still think Gallo might be an option if things go south badly in Denver.

Thoughts?

Smitty77

[BigDogPitbull]

Tank and draft Ben Simmons.

[Jon]

At this point, I think trades should be strictly made upon the grounds of gaining overall talent.  We're a borderline playoff team that wouldn't be one at all if we played in the West.  We can take our time solving the small forward dilemma and find a long term solution. 

In the meantime, I'm fine with going to the season with what we have and playing some 3 guard lineups at times. 

[KG Living Legend]

 Found the solution to this problem. What's a realistic offer for him. I'll give up

 two first plus young and Turner.

https://youtu.be/Qc2HaRgKPYs

[PhoSita]

Batum is a plausible option.  Fits the mid-to-late-20s theme Ainge has been going for lately.  Probably a better shooter than he was last year.  Has shown an ability to defend and be a playmaker at the 3 position.  Could be a good fit for Stevens's system.

[ThePoeticWolf]

 Found the solution to this problem. What's a realistic offer for him. I'll give up

 two first plus young and Turner.

https://youtu.be/Qc2HaRgKPYs

Giving up way to much, for a guy with some injury history.  Yes he's 22 butnot thanks for that price.  If it's Turner and maybe 1st ours in 2017.  Plus I think the Wolves won't give him up, they're built young and will make a lot of noise this year I think.  Specially if Rubio stays healthy an turns out to be what he should be finally. 

[Future Celtics Owner]

 Found the solution to this problem. What's a realistic offer for him. I'll give up

 two first plus young and Turner.

https://youtu.be/Qc2HaRgKPYs

Giving up way to much, for a guy with some injury history.  Yes he's 22 butnot thanks for that price.  If it's Turner and maybe 1st ours in 2017.  Plus I think the Wolves won't give him up, they're built young and will make a lot of noise this year I think.  Specially if Rubio stays healthy an turns out to be what he should be finally.

We are giving up way too much in both of those scenarios. Also the 2017 draft is good and we could suck in 2017.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Tank and draft Ben Simmons.

I'm with you. But we could be lucky and get 2 top 5 picks with the BKN pick in there too. I really want to see player development this year and a record that helps us in the draft. This years record was horrible to take because we were just 3 losses away from getting Justise Winslow/Myles Turner......and we deserved those players much more than the teams that got them.

We need to get the right stars on this team so we can be the favorites again and for years to come.

[fairweatherfan]

Tank and draft Ben Simmons.

What happens in the ~90% of scenarios where we don't get the #1 pick?

[Bdiddy]

We should have 3 picks in the top 15. Package all 3 for a top 5 pick. Throw in Young if needed. Draft the best 3 available out of Simmons, Brown or Ingram. From here forward the draft needs to be about quality and not quantity.

[PhoSita]

Tank and draft Ben Simmons.

What happens in the ~90% of scenarios where we don't get the #1 pick?

We still end up with a prospect who has greater trade value than almost all of the players currently on the roster.

Not saying I want to see the team all-out tank, but I think it's true, nonetheless.

[hwangjini_1]

Batum is a plausible option.  Fits the mid-to-late-20s theme Ainge has been going for lately.  Probably a better shooter than he was last year.  Has shown an ability to defend and be a playmaker at the 3 position.  Could be a good fit for Stevens's system.

i agree with each and every point. but i am not sure how much batum moves the celtics closer to being a contender. i would not mind such an addition, but given that the celtics are awash in mediocre to good talent, i am more interested in danny trying to secure a very good player.

i guess we are in the dog days of the off season, so what the heck. why not discuss batum et al.

[GetLucky]

As a guy that has followed the Wolves pretty closely, I can say:

1) The TWolves would never trade Muhammed for Evan Turner, and their fans and front office would probably scoff at the offer. Muhammed is viewed as their sixth man, and possible starting SF, of the future. He is a back up only because the Wolves have Kevin Martin on the team. If Martin is traded or injured, the consensus is that they will start Wiggins at SG and Muhammed at SF. (Wiggins played minutes at the 2 last year. Zach Lavine is viewed as a future two-guard, not PG, in an ideal world.) He was also a lottery pick, and his recent improvement gives Saunders no reason to drop his value.

2) Muhammed is improving. He's like the Wolves' offensive version of Avery Bradley. His uptick in 3-pt percentage last year (I believe over 36%) was a huge development in a guy that mostly relied on left-block post ups to score the previous year. He's entering that "make or break" third year where he basically plateaus or keeps improving, and almost everyone is high on him.

3) Some (emphasis on "some") people are comparing him to Jimmy Butler (as his counting stats are similar to Butler right before he broke out).

4) Defense is not exactly his strongest skill, although the Wolves as a team were pretty horrid on that end.

[Smitty77]

As a guy that has followed the Wolves pretty closely, I can say:

1) The TWolves would never trade Muhammed for Evan Turner, and their fans and front office would probably scoff at the offer. Muhammed is viewed as their sixth man, and possible starting SF, of the future. He is a back up only because the Wolves have Kevin Martin on the team. If Martin is traded or injured, the consensus is that they will start Wiggins at SG and Muhammed at SF. (Wiggins played minutes at the 2 last year. Zach Lavine is viewed as a future two-guard, not PG, in an ideal world.) He was also a lottery pick, and his recent improvement gives Saunders no reason to drop his value.

2) Muhammed is improving. He's like the Wolves' offensive version of Avery Bradley. His uptick in 3-pt percentage last year (I believe over 36%) was a huge development in a guy that mostly relied on left-block post ups to score the previous year. He's entering that "make or break" third year where he basically plateaus or keeps improving, and almost everyone is high on him.

3) Some (emphasis on "some") people are comparing him to Jimmy Butler (as his counting stats are similar to Butler right before he broke out).

4) Defense is not exactly his strongest skill, although the Wolves as a team were pretty horrid on that end.

Your comment about his defense could be the understatement of the year!!  He was ranked 76th out of 80 SF's in defense in the entire league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

Therefore, your analogy comparing him to AB, and All-NBA defender, falls apart very quickly.

Smitty77

[GetLucky]

As a guy that has followed the Wolves pretty closely, I can say:

1) The TWolves would never trade Muhammed for Evan Turner, and their fans and front office would probably scoff at the offer. Muhammed is viewed as their sixth man, and possible starting SF, of the future. He is a back up only because the Wolves have Kevin Martin on the team. If Martin is traded or injured, the consensus is that they will start Wiggins at SG and Muhammed at SF. (Wiggins played minutes at the 2 last year. Zach Lavine is viewed as a future two-guard, not PG, in an ideal world.) He was also a lottery pick, and his recent improvement gives Saunders no reason to drop his value.

2) Muhammed is improving. He's like the Wolves' offensive version of Avery Bradley. His uptick in 3-pt percentage last year (I believe over 36%) was a huge development in a guy that mostly relied on left-block post ups to score the previous year. He's entering that "make or break" third year where he basically plateaus or keeps improving, and almost everyone is high on him.

3) Some (emphasis on "some") people are comparing him to Jimmy Butler (as his counting stats are similar to Butler right before he broke out).

4) Defense is not exactly his strongest skill, although the Wolves as a team were pretty horrid on that end.

Your comment about his defense could be the understatement of the year!!  He was ranked 76th out of 80 SF's in defense in the entire league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

Therefore, your analogy comparing him to AB, and All-NBA defender, falls apart very quickly.

Smitty77

I thought I've been around long enough to have my analogies read into a little more I would never ever compare Muhammed's and Bradley's style of play. I meant he's their AB in the sense that he's completely overrated locally while simaltaneously being labeled as "always improving (woohoo!)." And just as analytics hate Muhammed's defense, they hate AB's offense. Objectively, they're not that great (just okay), but because of their labels and local niches, they become "household name" types for local fans.

Also, the Wolves were a horrible defense whereas the Celtics had a solid offense. So if the Celtics had a toilet offense and AB averaged 8 points per game and the Wovles had a top-13 defense with Muhammed playing "league average" defense, the situations would be flipped. Bradley's weakness is not in a position to be exposed because Stevens runs such a high-volume offense. So he puts up okay counting stats on offense (while still being hated in the analytics world for being inefficient and shooting all long twos) while playing his great defense on a league-average one. Conversely, Muhammed put up good (not great) offensive numbers on a team with a terrible offense (28th in ppg), but his weakness (defense) was exacerbated by the Wolve's terrible team D (I believe it was 30th in the NBA), not covered-up like Bradley's.

EDIT: The Wolves were 30th in the league last year in both points allowed per game and defensive rating. I'm a big believer that defense, especially defensive plus-minus, is more of a correlative stat based on team performance than a stat rooted in actual skill. So while Muhammed's defense is not great, I don't think it's as horrible as some stats would make it out to be.