SI Redraft of 2010

[Jon]

Yeah.  I can't believe people are so high on Monroe.  I'm very glad we didn't sign him to a max deal last summer. 

[fairweatherfan]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

The 2011 draft is really interesting because it was generally thought to be a weak draft to begin with, then several top prospects stayed in college because of the looming lockout.  But as the list shows, it ended up being one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. 

But where's Kemba Walker?  He's at least done more than D-Mo for sure.  Kanter's got a pretty good case too.

[MJohnnyboy]

Their list looks pretty good-to-great, not sure where the confusion lies.

May think about moving Ekpe Oduh a few spots up, but that's being a little nitpicky.

Pretty sure almost everyone in this thread has already showed why it is such a poor list. Not too much confusion about how bad it is.

I'm still blown away by anyone putting Monroe at 2, heh. He should barely be in the top 5, imo, and I'd put him at 7. Landry Fields being on this list proves that this guy doesn't even watch the game. Fields has averaged 15 MPG the last three seasons at like 3 PPG. He's barely a rotational player at this point so having him ahead of guys like Bradley and Turner (let alone a bunch of others) is a joke.

I'm 99.9% sure he was joking. The Ekpe Udoh comment was the give-away.

[PhoSita]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

The 2011 draft is really interesting because it was generally thought to be a weak draft to begin with, then several top prospects stayed in college because of the looming lockout.  But as the list shows, it ended up being one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. 

But where's Kemba Walker?  He's at least done more than D-Mo for sure.  Kanter's got a pretty good case too.

I like Kemba. 

I think he gets underrated because of the teams he's been on.  Not a great player, a little too small to be effective defensively, and his field goal percentage is low, but he's a good game manager and is one of the best in the league at getting a credible shot off in a half-court set regardless of defensive pressure.

That 2011 draft is really quite good.  Too bad that it turns out the Celts had no decent picks in that draft (though E'Twaun Moore is still in the league, surprisingly enough).

[Moranis]

Yeah.  I can't believe people are so high on Monroe.  I'm very glad we didn't sign him to a max deal last summer.

Yes because having a 24 year old center who hasn't been injury prone and who has averaged over 15.5/9.5 the last 4 years would be a horrible thing.

[Celtics18]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

The 2011 draft is really interesting because it was generally thought to be a weak draft to begin with, then several top prospects stayed in college because of the looming lockout.  But as the list shows, it ended up being one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. 

But where's Kemba Walker?  He's at least done more than D-Mo for sure.  Kanter's got a pretty good case too.

I only included the guys who made SI's top 100 (for whatever that's worth).  But, yeah, Kemba and Kanter make that draft even deeper. 

[AngryAndIrritable]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

Good shouts. I'd swap 2nd/3rd and 5th/6th.

[Moranis]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

The 2011 draft is really interesting because it was generally thought to be a weak draft to begin with, then several top prospects stayed in college because of the looming lockout.  But as the list shows, it ended up being one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. 

But where's Kemba Walker?  He's at least done more than D-Mo for sure.  Kanter's got a pretty good case too.

I only included the guys who made SI's top 100 (for whatever that's worth).  But, yeah, Kemba and Kanter make that draft even deeper.

Biyombo, Burks, Mirotic, C. Joseph, and even guys like Norris Cole and Lavoy Allen add a lot to the depth.

I do think in a re-draft Kyrie still goes #1, but that is a pretty solid draft overall as it turned out.

[PhoSita]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

The 2011 draft is really interesting because it was generally thought to be a weak draft to begin with, then several top prospects stayed in college because of the looming lockout.  But as the list shows, it ended up being one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. 

But where's Kemba Walker?  He's at least done more than D-Mo for sure.  Kanter's got a pretty good case too.

I only included the guys who made SI's top 100 (for whatever that's worth).  But, yeah, Kemba and Kanter make that draft even deeper.

Biyombo, Burks, Mirotic, C. Joseph, and even guys like Norris Cole and Lavoy Allen add a lot to the depth.

I do think in a re-draft Kyrie still goes #1, but that is a pretty solid draft overall as it turned out.

I'd take Kawhi over Kyrie in a heartbeat, no second thoughts.  But I'd probably go with Kyrie ahead of Butler.

[PhoSita]

Yeah.  I can't believe people are so high on Monroe.  I'm very glad we didn't sign him to a max deal last summer.

Yes because having a 24 year old center who hasn't been injury prone and who has averaged over 15.5/9.5 the last 4 years would be a horrible thing.

I'm really hoping Monroe averages something like 18 pts 10 reb 3 ast 1 stl 1 blk as a full time center with the Bucks and becomes a multiple time All-Star.  Always liked him as a player.  Bummed the Celts couldn't get him this summer (and no, I don't at all buy that the Celts weren't interested).

[D.o.s.]

I think it would be more fun to re-draft the 2011 class.  That draft has fifteen players on SI's recent top 100 list, 11 of them picked outside the top ten:

1.  Kawhi Leonard (15th)
2.  Jimmy Butler (30th)
3.  Kyrie Irving (1st)
4.  Klay Thompson (11th)
5.  Markieff Morris (13th)
6.  Chandler Parsons (38th)
7.  Nikola Vucevic (16th)
8.  Tristan Thompson (4th)
9.  Jonas Valanciunas (5th)
10.  Tobias Harris (19th)
11.  Brandon Knight (8th)
12.  Kenneth Faried (22nd)
13.  Isaiah Thomas (60th)
14.  Reggie Jackson (24th)
15.  Donatas Motiejunas (20th)

The 2011 draft is really interesting because it was generally thought to be a weak draft to begin with, then several top prospects stayed in college because of the looming lockout.  But as the list shows, it ended up being one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. 

But where's Kemba Walker?  He's at least done more than D-Mo for sure.  Kanter's got a pretty good case too.

I only included the guys who made SI's top 100 (for whatever that's worth).  But, yeah, Kemba and Kanter make that draft even deeper.

Biyombo, Burks, Mirotic, C. Joseph, and even guys like Norris Cole and Lavoy Allen add a lot to the depth.

I do think in a re-draft Kyrie still goes #1, but that is a pretty solid draft overall as it turned out.

I'd take Kawhi over Kyrie in a heartbeat, no second thoughts.  But I'd probably go with Kyrie ahead of Butler.

Don't mind me just stifling my laughter over here.

[PhoSita]

Don't mind me just stifling my laughter over here.

I'm curious, is this because you think Kyrie is better than Kawhi, or that Butler is better than Kyrie?  I honestly don't know.

I think Kyrie is a tantalizing player -- see his near-60 point outburst this season -- but he's a one way player who gets injured a lot, and he plays the best-stocked position in the league. 

Whereas tough wing players who play lots of minutes, can run a pick and roll and still thrive off the ball, rarely get injured, and make an impact at both ends of the court, are hard to find.

[Moranis]

Don't mind me just stifling my laughter over here.

I'm curious, is this because you think Kyrie is better than Kawhi, or that Butler is better than Kyrie?  I honestly don't know.

I think Kyrie is a tantalizing player -- see his near-60 point outburst this season -- but he's a one way player who gets injured a lot, and he plays the best-stocked position in the league. 

Whereas tough wing players who play lots of minutes, can run a pick and roll and still thrive off the ball, rarely get injured, and make an impact at both ends of the court, are hard to find.

Irving has played significantly more minutes than Leonard.  Not only more minutes per game, but more games in each of the last 3 seasons.  Seems silly to claim Irving is hurt a lot as compared to Leonard, when Leonard is the one that plays in less games and plays less minutes per game.

Obviously Leonard is a better defender, but he is a significantly worse offensive player.  And frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Leonard's career best in scoring is never greater than Irving's career low (right now as a rookie Irving's 18.5 ppg is a full 2 ppg higher than Leonard's career best from this year).  And this year, Irving was a much better defender than he has been in years past, of course individual defense is always helped when you have great defensive players playing with you and you no longer have to carry the offensive load by yourself.  Irving had that for the first time this year, while Leonard has always had that. 

The fact that PG is deep and SF isn't, would be the only reason I might consider Leonard over Irving, but Irving is the better player in my opinion and has a much higher ceiling as he has the tools to significantly improve defensively and I just don't see a lot of room for improvement from Leonard offensively (I don't ever see him as a 20 ppg scorer, which is what he would really need to reach that upper echelon).

[D.o.s.]

Moranis hit on a lot of it (even if it's fewer minutes per game, not less), but I'd also like to add that I very much believe that, sans Spurs, Leonard turns into a very similar player to the version of Andre Iguodala we saw in Philly while Iverson was still there. Not that it isn't a valuable kind of player to have, but he's simply not on the same level as Irving. Health concerns are a legitimate thing to say now, but at the time you have to draft assuming the best case scenario for health and it's not really even close.

[PhoSita]

To be clear, when I mentioned minutes and injuries, I was referring to Butler.

I think the point about what Kawhi  would have become on a different team is a good one.  I guess the question is whether we are talking about a redraft  based on who the players are now, or how we think they'd have turned out on the teams they would have gone to at a particular spot in the draft.

For my money, Kawhi is a more valuable player than kyrie, even if both are totally healthy.  A killer crossover is nice, but dominating on defense at perhaps the most important defensive position in today's game, while still scoring when it matters most, is a huge combination.

But if we are just talking about the raw talent they had when they came into the league, kryie wins. But then why are we talking about a redraft  at all?