Author Topic: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?  (Read 3818 times)

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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2015, 08:06:37 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2015, 09:30:13 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I know the logistics of the trade were different but I think of it as Amir Johnson replacing Wallace which is a worthwhile addition of a useful player at a position of need.  I see Amir as our starting center providing needed defense and rebounding.  He is a piece that works for the now and for the future.

From there, we have shuffling of deck chairs with the deck chairs being a little nicer than last year's deck chairs but still just deck chairs.  For example, I see Lee as a replacement for Bass; out with one deck chair and in with a new deck chair.  Rozier sort of replaces Pressey which is an upgrade but not one that is going to likely have a big impact on the team this year.

I do think Sully, Smart, and Olynyk will improve which is a form of upgrade so that is good.  A full year of IT is better than a half year.  Same for Crowder, he is now locked in and can really focus on contributing in a defined role.  I actually have some hope that Perry Jones will emerge and fulfill some of his promise as well.  All these incremental upgrades are nice and should be fun to watch play out but I don't expect them to transform the team.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2015, 10:25:54 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Lee and Amir are proven NBA front court players.    I am not as optimistic about Sully but if he comes in better shape it should help him.   He will still be slow and ponderous.   I just don't see the logic of building around those guys, I think guys will be able to get in his head easy too with comments.  But both of these guys are better shooters than KO or Sully in FG% for most their careers.  Amir is a better three point shooter than Sully or KO.   I think we added some athletic ability to the lineup and versatility.  I think we could use a star or two like most guys and ditch the guys who do not play D or are not athletes.  We are the Boston Celtics but we have a lot of guys who are rehabbing their careers here.   Sully, ET and David Lee come to mind in that regard.

Hunter will be an improvement over Chris Babb and Johnson.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2015, 10:35:08 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Pho, I understand you didn't like the moves we made this summer but I don't understand how you can say "we upgraded two strengths and didn't address any weaknesses" when the two guys we added address our two biggest weaknesses: interior defense and rebounding.

Because ultimately I think the team's biggest weaknesses were talent, shooting, and overall scoring ability.  I don't think those weaknesses were really significantly addressed.  David Lee is a better scorer than Sullinger or Olynyk, but playing him at the 4 will probably hurt the team's spacing enough that it evens out, and playing him at the 5 is a disaster defensively.

Amir is a nice player, but he's still just a role player, so I don't think it changes the team all that much.  Especially if he's playing in tandem with David Lee much of the time.


The team got incrementally better, in my opinion (3-5 games worth), and it will probably come at the cost of playing and developing younger guys on the team. That improvement may not be enough for the team to even win a playoff game this year.

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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2015, 10:47:35 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I know the logistics of the trade were different but I think of it as Amir Johnson replacing Wallace which is a worthwhile addition of a useful player at a position of need.  I see Amir as our starting center providing needed defense and rebounding.  He is a piece that works for the now and for the future.

Adding redundancy comes with diminished returns, for obvious reasons.

As for Amir, I'm curious why you think he's a future piece given that he's been in decline the last few years and undersized centers with ankle issues have a pretty poor history of aging in this league.
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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2015, 11:05:39 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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I'd say the RJ Hunter and Jordan Mickey additions will look good down the road, I'm not sold on Terry. David Lee is a good player, an upgrade in terms of low post scoring as well as playmaking. The Amir Johnson signing is just a waste of money in my eyes, $12 million is too much to pay for him, I honestly don't think that was the best Danny could of gotten with that price tag.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2015, 11:09:29 AM »

Offline Pucaccia

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We upgraded by Amir Johnson and David Lee.   Think about it, what really hurt us against Cleveland is Tristan Thompson. If we could have eliminated at least half of those excruciating offensive rebounds, then we could have taken a couple from Cleveland and maybe even won the series. We got killed from their offensive rebounds.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2015, 11:13:15 AM »

Offline littleteapot

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We upgraded by Amir Johnson and David Lee.   Think about it, what really hurt us against Cleveland is Tristan Thompson. If we could have eliminated at least half of those excruciating offensive rebounds, then we could have taken a couple from Cleveland and maybe even won the series. We got killed from their offensive rebounds.
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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2015, 11:52:49 AM »

Offline Granath

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Where did the Celtics get better?

(1) Starters - Amir Johnson is a better fit at the 5 than Zeller given the rest of the roster.

(2) Bench - David Lee > Gerald Wallace, Zeller is better off the bench than starting, Rozier/Jordan/Hunter > Pressey/Babb/Datome. The Cs get to enjoy a full season of IT.

(3) Maturity - Normal maturation process of an extremely young squad (I think the Cs are the 3rd youngest in the NBA).
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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2015, 12:27:17 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Having Thomas for the full season is probably the biggest upgrade over last year, honestly.
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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2015, 12:44:30 PM »

Offline Granath

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Having Thomas for the full season is probably the biggest upgrade over last year, honestly.

Either that or perhaps the "jump" some think Marcus Smart will make.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2015, 12:45:23 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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We upgraded by Amir Johnson and David Lee.   Think about it, what really hurt us against Cleveland is Tristan Thompson. If we could have eliminated at least half of those excruciating offensive rebounds, then we could have taken a couple from Cleveland and maybe even won the series. We got killed from their offensive rebounds.

David Lee's teams have historically grabbed fewer boards when he's been on the floor.
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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2015, 01:06:42 PM »

Offline saltlover

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We upgraded by Amir Johnson and David Lee.   Think about it, what really hurt us against Cleveland is Tristan Thompson. If we could have eliminated at least half of those excruciating offensive rebounds, then we could have taken a couple from Cleveland and maybe even won the series. We got killed from their offensive rebounds.

David Lee's teams have historically grabbed fewer boards when he's been on the floor.

By such a small amount that's it's within the margin of error.  But that's the wrong way to look at it anyway-- the question is who's minutes is Lee likely to take, and try to figure out, from a rebounding perspective, if David Lee will rebound better than, say, Brandon Bass.  Also, while we got killed in the boards in the playoffs, during the regular season we were just above league average in defeanive rebounding percentage.  And, for what it's worth, Golden State, relevant both because of their title and being Lee's former team, was slightly below average.

I don't really think David Lee is the panacea to a rebounding problem that isn't necessarily a big problem (and, in fact, that is not what Celtics management highlighted when talking about bringing in Lee.  They were most concerned about getting buckets in late-game situations when things get tighter.). But I do completely think David Lee is more likely to provide value to the team than was Crash, and in that respect, he's an improvement from last year.