Author Topic: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?  (Read 3828 times)

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Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« on: August 31, 2015, 10:40:14 PM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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The Celtics lost Brandon Bass and Gerald Wallace and acquired Amir Johnson and David Lee.  If Amir and David both stay healthy, then this is a huge upgrade.  If not healthy, then it clears more cap space for the following year.  On the other hand, I’d much prefer Bass over Mickey.  Hopefully, I’ll change my mind by the end of the season.
 
Phil Pressey, Luigi Datome, Chris Babb, vs. Terry Rozier, Mickey Jordan and R.J. Hunter

Phil Pressey vs. Terry Rozier 
Pressey is more aggressive offensively and defensively. Knows how to drive the lane.  Rozier has more potential, less of a defensive liability in certain match ups.  Shoots better, but not a lot better.  He has a good release on his shot which could turn deadly at times.  Neither a big upgrade or loss either way.

Luigi Datome vs. R.J. Hunter  Luigi is a more reliable shooter and slightly better on defense.  Although, R.J. will poke the ball away from time to time.  R.J. is better in the open court and has greater team awareness on offense.  Slight favor to Datome.  Again, not a major improvement or downgrade.  Some may feel R.J. has more talent.  And, he may have.  It's just that his body is not NBA ready. 

Chris Babb vs. Jordan Mickey  I liked Chris for a few games a while back.  He just never developed.  Mickey got it here.   Will Jordan get any minutes with all the forwards on the team?  Thus, the question is;  is he a contributor or bench warmer? 

It seems the biggest improvement the Celtics made over the summer is in acquiring Johnson and Lee.  Should they stay healthy and the rookies contribute, then the Celtics could have a better record next season. 

I purposely avoided the PJIII vs. Young comparison because we don't know where that it headed. 

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2015, 10:48:36 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'd take Rozier over Pressey because he has a more well-rounded game than Pressey.  Pressey's the better ball handler from what I've seen but that's about it.

Take Hunter over Gigi based on potential and Hunter seems to have a good understanding of the game so far.  Gigi didn't do a lot when he got minutes.

Take Mickey over Babb.  shouldn't really need to explain that.

As for Amir/Lee vs Bass/Wallace.  I'd take both over either Bass or Wallace.  wallace - self explanatory.  Amir is a better defender and rebounder than Bass.  Lee is a better scorer and rebounder than Bass.  seems like a solid move forward here.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 11:26:18 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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The Celtics lost Brandon Bass and Gerald Wallace and acquired Amir Johnson and David Lee.  If Amir and David both stay healthy, then this is a huge upgrade.  If not healthy, then it clears more cap space for the following year.  On the other hand, I’d much prefer Bass over Mickey.  Hopefully, I’ll change my mind by the end of the season.
 
Phil Pressey, Luigi Datome, Chris Babb, vs. Terry Rozier, Mickey Jordan and R.J. Hunter

Phil Pressey vs. Terry Rozier 
Pressey is more aggressive offensively and defensively. Knows how to drive the lane.  Rozier has more potential, less of a defensive liability in certain match ups.  Shoots better, but not a lot better.  He has a good release on his shot which could turn deadly at times.  Neither a big upgrade or loss either way.

Luigi Datome vs. R.J. Hunter  Luigi is a more reliable shooter and slightly better on defense.  Although, R.J. will poke the ball away from time to time.  R.J. is better in the open court and has greater team awareness on offense.  Slight favor to Datome.  Again, not a major improvement or downgrade.  Some may feel R.J. has more talent.  And, he may have.  It's just that his body is not NBA ready. 

Chris Babb vs. Jordan Mickey  I liked Chris for a few games a while back.  He just never developed.  Mickey got it here.   Will Jordan get any minutes with all the forwards on the team?  Thus, the question is;  is he a contributor or bench warmer? 

It seems the biggest improvement the Celtics made over the summer is in acquiring Johnson and Lee.  Should they stay healthy and the rookies contribute, then the Celtics could have a better record next season. 

I purposely avoided the PJIII vs. Young comparison because we don't know where that it headed.

For the final 36 games of the season, the Celtics were 24-12. Good for 2nd best in the EC over that span, and that's a pretty good sample size that started around the time our current group came together. The Celtics are also the 5th youngest team in the league and improved their major deficiencies in the off-season.

I may be forever an optimist, but I just don't find it likely that we win less than 40 games. Possible? Sure. Anything is in the NBA. I don't think we'll sustain that 55 win pace we finished last year on, but just by virtue of continuity we should be over .500.

I think it's foolish to compare veterans to rookies since you have no idea what the rookies are gonna do. But to go out on a limb, I really thinks it's a stretch to say Pressey and Rozier is a wash, and Datome is better than Hunter (even right now).

Defensive ability translates pretty well, and Rozier is MUCH better at that end than Pressey, and it's not just cause Pressey is so small. Rozier is a tenacious, AB like defender who has Smart-like hustle and absolutely no fear of anyone. Offensively he has a first step Pressey couldn't ever dream about, better handles and a better jump shot. Pressey is a better passer, he can make dimes a lot of other dudes can't make (Rozier included from what I've seen so far) but that's about it. Pressey is a borderline-NBA player trying to work his way up to bench warmer. If Rozier is nothing but a bench warmer in 3 years, his career will be a failure.

Same goes for Datome-Hunter. Datome could only find 6-12 minutes a game on a Celtic team that had almost no shooters, shot the ball a lot anyways and Datome is an excellent shooter. Datome was a very poor defender who hustles, which gave him a few sweet blocks in his time here. Other than that, he's below average; almost terrible. He was slightly less terrible than Young (who was just utterly lost defensively) last year, which is the only reason he got minutes at all. Hunter (again, from what I've seen so far which is limited and has no NBA games involved) is a considerably better defender. Hunter has a very high BBIQ, he knows where he needs to be and when he needs to be there. He knows how to mirror an opponent. He knows how to read a passing lane and how to use his length and quickness to generate TO's and he's generally aware of the game being played in front of him. Datome can't do any of that very well.

And poor Chris Babb. The guys just trying to avoid the Turkish league and he's gotta compete against a guy who just signed the biggest deal for a 2nd rounder ever? I hope he gets to stay in the d-league, because he'll probably get to play against Mickey there since we have so many bigs.

I think in both the short and long term, this team got better over the summer and I expect is to do pretty well.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 11:34:52 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Better at both bigs with Amir and Lee. Both are a class above Zeller/KO/Sully.

That might be it for sure.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2015, 12:02:46 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Most will disagree with me, but I say everywhere.

1) We upgraded our front court by adding a world-class low post scorer (Lee) and a couple of competent rim protectors (Johnson and Mickey).  Lee also potentially adds a legit #2 scoring option, which we didn't really have before. 

2) We upgraded at PG via Smart's natural progression (he clearly showed many improvements during SL play) and by starting the season with a legit #1 scoring option  (Thomas)

3) We added depth at the SG spot by bringing in a two-way player who can get to the basket, handle the ball and hit the outside jumper (Rozier) and by adding a shooter ho can defend bigger guards (Hunter).  Unlike many, I feel Rozier will start making consistent contributions at some point in the season, and I think Hunter may have his moments here and there.  I also feel that the addition of Thomas, Rozier and Lee is going to take a lot of offensive pressure off Bradley, allowing him to settle down and let the offense come to him a little more.

4) I feel we upgraded at SF - while we don't have much outright talent at the position, we do have strength in numbers, as we're now starting the season three-deep (Crowder / Turner / Jerebko).Those three guys offer unique skill sets, and combined they offer a good amount of versatility. 

5) I feel like we upgraded our bench dramatically.  With Olynyk injured, we will probably be starting the season with a second unit of Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Jonas Jerebko, Jared Sullinger/David Lee and Tyler Zeller.  That's probably legitimately better than Philly's starting 5.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 12:18:57 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2015, 12:12:18 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Heres how the Celtics upgraded:

Amir > Bass
Lee > Wallace
Rozier > Pressey
Hunter > Datome (Gigi is out of the NBA)
Mickey > Randolph/Babb (both out of the NBA, neither played more than a couple minutes for C's)
2nd year Smart > Rookie Smart

Given the age of the roster, it's reasonable to expect improvement from many of the other holdovers as well.  In any case, there is no position in which the Celtics took a step backward from last year's roster.  From 1-15 the players are either the same or better.  This is why it's very reasonable to expect at least as good of a final record as last year, even if we drop off of that 24-12 pace from the end of the season.  The team overall is better.  As a sign of our depth, I think we're the only team in the NBA that doesn't employ a single payer at the minimum salary (aside from the training camp invites). We didn't have to reach to the scrap heap to fill out the roster, whereas in prior years we've had 2-4 of those guys at a time.  Furthermore, the rookies don't have to give us much, as they're replacing the 13th-15th spots on the roster.  Really anything we get from them is a bonus.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2015, 12:20:29 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Heres how the Celtics upgraded:

Amir > Bass
Lee > Wallace
Rozier > Pressey
Hunter > Datome (Gigi is out of the NBA)
Mickey > Randolph/Babb (both out of the NBA, neither played more than a couple minutes for C's)
2nd year Smart > Rookie Smart

Given the age of the roster, it's reasonable to expect improvement from many of the other holdovers as well.  In any case, there is no position in which the Celtics took a step backward from last year's roster.  From 1-15 the players are either the same or better.  This is why it's very reasonable to expect at least as good of a final record as last year, even if we drop off of that 24-12 pace from the end of the season.  The team overall is better.  As a sign of our depth, I think we're the only team in the NBA that doesn't employ a single payer at the minimum salary (aside from the training camp invites). We didn't have to reach to the scrap heap to fill out the roster, whereas in prior years we've had 2-4 of those guys at a time.  Furthermore, the rookies don't have to give us much, as they're replacing the 13th-15th spots on the roster.  Really anything we get from them is a bonus.

Nice Summary!

TP for you! :)

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 12:38:34 AM »

Offline viulo

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Agreeing with almost everyone, I think we upgraded in every player lost/player aquired deal.
The only problem, if you want to consider it a problem, is that we didn't upgrade the position where we probably needed the most to upgrade - SF.
Still, I don't think anyone can consider we're worst - only that others improved more (which is debatable...)
The only thing I think we lost was the player who could, with one second left in the game, throw a full court pass with precision (Wallace). Of course, that's not enough reason to keep him, but I'm gonna miss those passes...

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 01:06:26 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The Celtics upgraded their depth and at power forward.

Yup. They upgraded the two things that were already a strength.  Things that were issues before are still an issue.

If Amir can truly anchor the defense, that would be a significant upgrade. The team will still have to mix and match in order to find success on one end or the other, but not both.
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Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 02:04:35 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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They upgraded starting PF and the rest is all bench improvements. So they might be a legit 46 win team.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 02:46:23 AM »

Offline iadera

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I agree in most said. We really did improve since last season, but only on the paper. What I believe is that we need just one star player to make us serious contender. We already have one - CBS! ;)
I'm aware we would have to give some players for a star, but chemistry would stay. I'm sure.
With this team (full of talents) we can always be nice to watch and make playoffs, but that's about it.
I am pretty sure that Danny thinks about Melo.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2015, 03:19:04 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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We got a couple more decent power forwards and added some depth to the Red Claws.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2015, 05:28:34 AM »

Offline greece66

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We got a couple more decent power forwards and added some depth to the Red Claws.

Booh!  :P

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2015, 06:04:03 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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The Celtics upgraded their depth and at power forward.

Yup. They upgraded the two things that were already a strength.  Things that were issues before are still an issue.

If Amir can truly anchor the defense, that would be a significant upgrade. The team will still have to mix and match in order to find success on one end or the other, but not both.

Interior defense and rebounding were two of our most glaring holes last season. Amir Johnson is a better defending big then we've had the past few years, and we managed a top-15 defense last year with Zeller anchoring the middle. Great P&R defender, knows where to be and how to alter shots. Between losing Bass and gaining Amir and Mickey we certainly improved there.

Rebounding wise, David Lee is and has always been a good to great rebounder. Better than Bass or Wallace could've been for sure. Amir helps in that regard too, never-mind a healthy Sullinger and expected growth from guys like Zeller, Mickey and KO in that department.

Even with scoring, I think it's obvious we have more legit scoring options then last year. Lee can generate a lot of points given the opportunity, Rozier can give us a spark plug that Pressey couldn't really be. Hunter and Young will have opportunities to hit open shots, Smart is certainly growing on that end. We didn't do as much to address the scoring but I think it's fair to say we have more options and more potential for growth there.

Pho, I understand you didn't like the moves we made this summer but I don't understand how you can say "we upgraded two strengths and didn't address any weaknesses" when the two guys we added address our two biggest weaknesses: interior defense and rebounding. Just because they're both nominally 4's and we have a bunch of those already doesn't mean their skill-sets don't give us something we didn't have before. I know you don't like the direction we took this summer, but that Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me.

Re: Where did the Celtics upgrade over the summer?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2015, 07:20:07 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Dumping Bass ....hiring Amir

Getting Sully back on track .

Adding  Rozier and Hunter and Mickey

Need to dump ET ASAP .....to finish the job of cleaning house