Author Topic: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016  (Read 15438 times)

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Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2015, 04:32:17 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2015, 04:46:08 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Can we fight about it? please!
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Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2015, 05:07:42 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Rondo was and is one of my favorite players to watch in the league today, but the fact that he was dramatically overrated or dramatically underrated (depending on where you sat) on this blog would color a lot of the discussion in a negative way.

Either way, he was a top 20 to top 30 player over a four year stretch from '09 to '12.  Even for those who have never been his biggest fans, that would be hard to dispute.

Rondo was on the perfect team, surrounded by ideal teammates that didn't need the ball in their hands and can play off of him, which conveniently hid his warts. I don't think it's any stretch to say that we would've had similar team success had he had a Teague or Lowry instead of Rondo. Sure, we may have lost some of Rondo's passing, but we would've gained better scoring and floor spacing. It's also no coincidence that Rondo's game started slipping as the Big 3 advanced further in age. He was not a top 30 player. He simply wasn't talented enough to take his game to another level and was greatly overrated by many fans who were blinded by his flashy style.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 05:13:15 PM by Eddie20 »

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2015, 05:36:17 PM »

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Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2015, 06:01:04 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Rondo was and is one of my favorite players to watch in the league today, but the fact that he was dramatically overrated or dramatically underrated (depending on where you sat) on this blog would color a lot of the discussion in a negative way.

Agreed, there was NO middle ground when it came to him.

I've been squarely in the middle ground on Rondo my entire time here.  So have a bunch of other posters.  We're just not very memorable  :'(  Also we tended to stay out of the slapfights, since they were kinda a perfect storm of tedious and angry.

"middle ground" on Rondo had a way of being characterized as extreme territory.
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Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2015, 07:05:17 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Can we fight about it? please!

Welp.

Sorry, this conflicted with some actual basketball-playin.  Where I am halfway identical to Rondo, with all of the same deficiencies and none of the same strengths.  I didn't get kicked off the team though, so there's that  ;D

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2015, 07:25:41 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Rondo no longer considered top 100?

 Or did I miss his name??

He is no longer considered top 100.

Seems more than fair to me.  He hasn't made a team better in a couple of years.
Obviously some will point to the idea that Rondo is not as good as he used to be (and there may be some validity to that), but more than anything, his plight overwhelmingly validates those that argued he was never that good in the first place; that his deficiencies outweigh his strengths.

Eh, the knee injury that has neatly bisected Rondo's career into "All-Star" and "falling star" periods makes "overwhelming validation" a major stretch.  You can certainly say the same flaws have always been there, but it's a lot harder to say they were always this detrimental and he just lucked into a situation that covered them up early on.

I mean, no one really expects the current incarnation of Rondo to be making plays like dunking on Chris Bosh or repeatedly pickpocketing the 2016 equivalent of 2008 Kobe, or sustained things like leading the league in steals or flirting with all-time assist records.  Because he was better then and is worse now.
I agree that there is certainly a confound when it comes to validation.  But there is another thing that bisects his career; great team around him and not so great team.  And he never really showed that he could elevate an average team.  And the metrics while he was on good teams didn't always validate his importance either.

But back the knee injury.  I do not see (or agree) that that is the issue with him.  Knee injuries don't cause irreparable damage like they used to.  It isn't like Rondo has been bothered by the knee (in the same way as someone like Rose has).  I see no reason why it shouldn't be back to 100% or close to it by now.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2015, 08:13:28 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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IT is a top 50 player in the NBA...

He's been top 35 in PER, TS%, PACE, OffRtg, and top 50 in EWA, VA, PIE, NetRtg for consecutive seasons. He's a below average defender, but he's been on atrocious defensive teams (all of his stats improved after the trade to Boston, including his defensive peripherals).

Before last year, most exports had James Harden in their top 10 despite his absolutely atrocious matador defense, so at what point does defense impact offense in the criteria. IT is an elite offensive player, who will have an entire season to build upon the excellent metrics he put up once he got to Boston, so even if you think he doesn't belong, if he puts up the numbers he did post-trade, he's going to either be considered a top 50 player.

(Question) if IT had the same stats and game impact, but were 6'7, would he rank higher? If so, by how much?

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2015, 09:01:01 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo no longer considered top 100?

 Or did I miss his name??

He is no longer considered top 100.

Seems more than fair to me.  He hasn't made a team better in a couple of years.
Obviously some will point to the idea that Rondo is not as good as he used to be (and there may be some validity to that), but more than anything, his plight overwhelmingly validates those that argued he was never that good in the first place; that his deficiencies outweigh his strengths.

Eh, the knee injury that has neatly bisected Rondo's career into "All-Star" and "falling star" periods makes "overwhelming validation" a major stretch.  You can certainly say the same flaws have always been there, but it's a lot harder to say they were always this detrimental and he just lucked into a situation that covered them up early on.

I mean, no one really expects the current incarnation of Rondo to be making plays like dunking on Chris Bosh or repeatedly pickpocketing the 2016 equivalent of 2008 Kobe, or sustained things like leading the league in steals or flirting with all-time assist records.  Because he was better then and is worse now.
I agree that there is certainly a confound when it comes to validation.  But there is another thing that bisects his career; great team around him and not so great team.  And he never really showed that he could elevate an average team.  And the metrics while he was on good teams didn't always validate his importance either.

  The "great" team around him lasted until KG's knee injury, and the "really good" team around him lasted a year later. Rondo's best years came when his teammates were well into the twilight of their career.

  Which is neither here nor there in terms of how he played last year or how he'll play next year.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2015, 09:19:07 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Wait I thought that we were supposed to withhold judgement on Rondo's play until the end of the '14-'15 season when his knee clearly wouldn't be bothering him, and that he was obviously going to regain his form?

(Sorry)
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Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2015, 10:33:53 PM »

Offline mgent

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1 through 10 doesn't look too bad in my opinion.

Hayward 31?  (Need I really say this is too high? I questioned Rubio at 87 and someone seriously thought I meant that was too low?)

Klay Thompson at 26?!?!?

But Draymond Green is at 16?!?!

Duncan over Aldridge?!?!?!

KOBE IN THE TOP 100?  Let alone top 55?

Most of all, I have to question how Lowry made it to 34, while Derozan is at 61.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale