Author Topic: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016  (Read 15439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2015, 04:26:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
I would have guessed IT would be at least top 50-60.

Look at it this way, he's #88 despite being a total one way player.  If it were a ranking solely on offensive ability he'd be top 20 or 30.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2015, 04:48:56 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?


I'd much rather have JJ Redick on my team, to be honest.

I'm not sure why, he's not really better than Williams at anything, aside from being a slightly better shooter on long jumpers.

Lou, on the other hand, is younger, a better defender, much better at creating his own shot, and much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line.

Not to mention, a guard who's 31 years old is much more likely to get worse than remain the same.  Especially guards like Redick who rely a lot on their speed.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 04:53:49 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?


I'd much rather have JJ Redick on my team, to be honest.

I'm not sure why, he's not really better than Williams at anything, aside from being a slightly better shooter on long jumpers.

Lou, on the other hand, is younger, a better defender, much better at creating his own shot, and much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line.

Not to mention, a guard who's 31 years old is much more likely to get worse than remain the same.  Especially guards like Redick who rely a lot on their speed.

Redick is a solid defender and he is one of the best off-ball shooters in the game.  Lou-Will is a liability defensively anywhere except for PG, he needs the ball in his hands, and he's a roller coaster ride running a team's offense. 

Lou-Will versus Redick is another classic example of how "ball-handler" = "good player" in the eyes of many fans.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 06:56:44 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Are C's fans incredible homers--or are they okay with this list:

http://www.si.com/nba/top-100-nba-players-2016?page=3&devicetype=default

The only  C's to make it? IT at 88 and Amir at 89.

No Lee, Smart or Sully.

What do you think? This list is a projection, and I'm of course hoping they will be proven wrong.

(Note: this list is only 51-100, the rest still to be announced.)

horse**** list.    Montajunas is listed in the top 100 and KO, Sully is not?

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 06:59:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Are C's fans incredible homers--or are they okay with this list:

http://www.si.com/nba/top-100-nba-players-2016?page=3&devicetype=default

The only  C's to make it? IT at 88 and Amir at 89.

No Lee, Smart or Sully.

What do you think? This list is a projection, and I'm of course hoping they will be proven wrong.

(Note: this list is only 51-100, the rest still to be announced.)

horse**** list.    Montajunas is listed in the top 100 and KO, Sully is not?

Production on a team that wins games counts for more.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 07:01:02 PM »

Offline Rondo9

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5379
  • Tommy Points: 277
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?


I'd much rather have JJ Redick on my team, to be honest.

I'm not sure why, he's not really better than Williams at anything, aside from being a slightly better shooter on long jumpers.

Lou, on the other hand, is younger, a better defender, much better at creating his own shot, and much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line.

Not to mention, a guard who's 31 years old is much more likely to get worse than remain the same.  Especially guards like Redick who rely a lot on their speed.

Redick is a solid defender and he is one of the best off-ball shooters in the game.  Lou-Will is a liability defensively anywhere except for PG, he needs the ball in his hands, and he's a roller coaster ride running a team's offense. 

Lou-Will versus Redick is another classic example of how "ball-handler" = "good player" in the eyes of many fans.

I prefer a scorer over a shooter.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2015, 07:41:18 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?


I'd much rather have JJ Redick on my team, to be honest.

I'm not sure why, he's not really better than Williams at anything, aside from being a slightly better shooter on long jumpers.

Lou, on the other hand, is younger, a better defender, much better at creating his own shot, and much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line.

Not to mention, a guard who's 31 years old is much more likely to get worse than remain the same.  Especially guards like Redick who rely a lot on their speed.

Redick just turned 31, while Williams is turing 29. So the difference isn't that much.

Your second comment makes me question if you've actually seen Redick play or you meant to say "Williams". Williams is the one the relies on his speed and historically speaking undersized guards, who rely on speed, don't age well. Shooters, however, usually have very long careers as the spacing they provide is always in high demand.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2015, 07:47:46 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962

Lou-Will versus Redick is another classic example of how "ball-handler" = "good player" in the eyes of many fans.

Not true, though ball handling does make the player/team a lot more versatile and a lot less predictable.  A triple threat player is much more beneficial to the offense than a double threat.

Ball-handling is ultimately what separates a Dirk Nowitzki from a Matt Bonner.  And it's not just ball-handling (which Redick/Bonner don't have much of either).  We're talking about ability to create a shot with the ball in your hands.  Body control, footwork, timing, explosiveness, array of moves, etc. 

Williams can hit a pull-up jumper in his sleep, but he's crafty at getting by people as well.  He's crafty at getting to the line.  All that is just so much more difficult to guard than a spot-up shooter.  He's also a much bigger threat in the paint.  And when it comes to late game when the defense locks down, you NEED someone who can create their own space.

I also have to hugely question why you think "ball-handler = good player" is a classic example of what fans say/think.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 07:53:21 PM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2015, 08:00:14 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?


I'd much rather have JJ Redick on my team, to be honest.

I'm not sure why, he's not really better than Williams at anything, aside from being a slightly better shooter on long jumpers.

Lou, on the other hand, is younger, a better defender, much better at creating his own shot, and much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line.

Not to mention, a guard who's 31 years old is much more likely to get worse than remain the same.  Especially guards like Redick who rely a lot on their speed.

Redick just turned 31, while Williams is turing 29. So the difference isn't that much.

Your second comment makes me question if you've actually seen Redick play or you meant to say "Williams". Williams is the one the relies on his speed and historically speaking undersized guards, who rely on speed, don't age well. Shooters, however, usually have very long careers as the spacing they provide is always in high demand.

Williams is fast because he is a PG, but to say he relies on his speed is like saying Chauncey Billups, or Paul Pierce, rely on speed to get their shot off.

I have to question how much you've seen Redick as well, because he's a player who gets a large amount of his shots from running around screens to get open.  Doc treats him much like Ray Allen.  Take a look at much Ray's offense dropped when he hit the wrong side of 30 (and then continued to get older).  Ankles are the first thing to go.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2015, 08:09:41 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2586
  • Tommy Points: 343

So- who are some top-50 players you think SI will leave out entirely? How about some bad players you think will end up in the top 50?

I have a funny feeling that they've forgotten Tyson Chandler exists.

I guess Danny Green is going to be in the top 50?

I guess Kyle Korver is out?

I'm a little worried about Andre Iguodala...

No way you've got Hayward, Favors, AND Gobert all in that top 50.... right?

I get that everyone is psyched about Kris Middleton, but you're not really going to squeeze him in there... are you?

I guess you're done with Pek? You're obviously not putting him in the top 50. He's a little mad that you found spots in the top 100 for Jonas and Donatas.

It looks like you think David West is over the hill. I guess that adjusting your expectations with age makes a lot of sense... you do know Kobe is 37, right?

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2015, 08:12:34 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20738
  • Tommy Points: 2365
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.

So- who are some top-50 players you think SI will leave out entirely? How about some bad players you think will end up in the top 50?

I have a funny feeling that they've forgotten Tyson Chandler exists.

I guess Danny Green is going to be in the top 50?

I guess Kyle Korver is out?

I'm a little worried about Andre Iguodala...

No way you've got Hayward, Favors, AND Gobert all in that top 50.... right?

I get that everyone is psyched about Kris Middleton, but you're not really going to squeeze him in there... are you?

I guess you're done with Pek? You're obviously not putting him in the top 50. He's a little mad that you found spots in the top 100 for Jonas and Donatas.

It looks like you think David West is over the hill. I guess that adjusting your expectations with age makes a lot of sense... you do know Kobe is 37, right?

Agree with a lot of this, but  Pek was in the top 100 somewhere (toward the top of the 50 that've been posted) EDIT: oops, looks like I saw Pek on the "snubs" list and mixed em u.  Apologies.  ...and David West has had a great career but is probably not a top 100 guy anymore, at least not in a projection for next year.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2015, 08:12:48 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?

Rubio at 87?!?!?!

No David West in top 100?

Splitter a should be a little better than 74.

Tony Parker drops from 15 last year to 53 this year?  SMH

I actually thought it was about spot on...
To say that Tony Parker was 30 spots better than IT is probably ranking IT too low or Parker too high...
The other guys are all about right to me?
David West was non existent last year- Pacers fans are glad he's gone.
Rubio sucks...
Lou Williams should be a bit higher but Reddick was a key part in the Clippers top 3 finish in the West....
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2015, 08:13:14 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182

I also have to hugely question why you think "ball-handler = good player" is a classic example of what fans say/think.

Because we see it time and time again.  Guys like Jamal Crawford, Lou Williams, Evan Turner, Jordan Crawford . . . go on down the list.  Ball dominant guys who put up counting stats and go on scoring streaks get overrated by fans.  Kobe is the greatest example of this phenomenon.



The thing with Lou Will is, sure, if you need somebody to create offense in a vacuum, you'd rather have him.  He's more talented at creating his own shot.  But if you're depending on Lou Williams as a major part of your offense, you're in a bad spot.

If you actually have a good team, you'd much rather have J.J. Redick, because he's solid defensively -- sorry, but I'll have to disagree with anyone who suggests Lou Will is not a negative on that end -- and he's a really useful complementary player.

Unless we're talking about a star (neither Redick nor Lou Will counts), I'll take the elite complementary player over the dude who puts up shots and has a nice cross-over anyday.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2015, 08:14:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182

So- who are some top-50 players you think SI will leave out entirely? How about some bad players you think will end up in the top 50?

I have a funny feeling that they've forgotten Tyson Chandler exists.

I guess Danny Green is going to be in the top 50?

I guess Kyle Korver is out?

I'm a little worried about Andre Iguodala...

No way you've got Hayward, Favors, AND Gobert all in that top 50.... right?

I get that everyone is psyched about Kris Middleton, but you're not really going to squeeze him in there... are you?

I guess you're done with Pek? You're obviously not putting him in the top 50. He's a little mad that you found spots in the top 100 for Jonas and Donatas.

It looks like you think David West is over the hill. I guess that adjusting your expectations with age makes a lot of sense... you do know Kobe is 37, right?

Agree with a lot of this, but Pek was in the top 100 somewhere (toward the top of the 50 that've been posted) and David West has had a great career but is probably not a top 100 guy anymore, at least not in a projection for next year.

I think leaving Pek out of the top 100 could be justified given all of the injury issues he's had.  Staying on the floor matters.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: SI.com's Top 100 NBA Players of 2016
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2015, 09:16:20 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
Lou Williams only one spot over Redick?


I'd much rather have JJ Redick on my team, to be honest.

I'm not sure why, he's not really better than Williams at anything, aside from being a slightly better shooter on long jumpers.

Lou, on the other hand, is younger, a better defender, much better at creating his own shot, and much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line.

Not to mention, a guard who's 31 years old is much more likely to get worse than remain the same.  Especially guards like Redick who rely a lot on their speed.

Redick just turned 31, while Williams is turing 29. So the difference isn't that much.

Your second comment makes me question if you've actually seen Redick play or you meant to say "Williams". Williams is the one the relies on his speed and historically speaking undersized guards, who rely on speed, don't age well. Shooters, however, usually have very long careers as the spacing they provide is always in high demand.

Williams is fast because he is a PG, but to say he relies on his speed is like saying Chauncey Billups, or Paul Pierce, rely on speed to get their shot off.

I have to question how much you've seen Redick as well, because he's a player who gets a large amount of his shots from running around screens to get open.  Doc treats him much like Ray Allen.  Take a look at much Ray's offense dropped when he hit the wrong side of 30 (and then continued to get older).  Ankles are the first thing to go.

I wouldn't say Ray Allen relied on speed to get his shots off.  I would say that this helped him early in his career as a scorer (he could create his own shot as well as anybody early in his career, something too few give him credit for) but I think his ability to excel as a shooter had more to do with his incredible fitness, perfect timing, outstanding basketball IQ and excellent shooting form.

I feel he relied a lot more on his awareness and basketball IQ to know exactly when and where screens were coming from and when his defender started to fall asleep, so that he could create enough of a head start to get separation from his defender.  Then he relied on his incredibly fitness to run off as many screens as he needed to (sometimes as many as 3 or 4) in order to create just enough separation to allow him to get off a shot with that lightning quick release.

I think most of the time it was more a case of his defender getting tired or getting stuck on a screen that gave Ray the space he needed, rather than outright speed / quickness. 

That's not to say he didn't have some degree of quickness, but I wouldn't describe him as explosively quick - at least not when he was in Boston (and moving towards his mid 30's). 

Remember you're talking about a guy who shot 45%, 42% and 38% at the ages of 36, 37 and 38 (respectively) and who continued to average double figures in scoring (despite reduced minutes and playing behind 3 All-Stars) right up to the age of 38.

He just has old school fundamentals in that he knows how to read defenders, he knows how to time movements, and he has shooting form down to perfection.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 09:35:21 PM by crimson_stallion »