Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.

[Big333223]

Did not this stuff happen a few years ago?   And it was brought up after she was an ex girlfriend?

The late reportings always make me skeptical.  I know people sometimes need time to process things emotionally.   But this one reeks of seeking money.   I would think someone would report something like that right away.

lol

Did you really just not read anything everyone else has written in this thread?

[Eja117]

I guess that's part of what I'm saying. I find a lot of the media and people pick and choose who and what to victim blame.

[SHAQATTACK]

It's amazing that a young rich stud and nice guy ......has to rape women for sex ....?......I would think he'd have a million eger ladies chasing him.  And if there is something special he likes surely with all,his money , he can just pay professional s to act out his fantasies .

Just makes no sense ,  is why I'm skeptical of her claims.

[littleteapot]

It's amazing that a young rich stud and nice guy ......has to rape women for sex ....?......I would think he'd have a million eger ladies chasing him.  And if there is something special he likes surely with all,his money , he can just pay professional s to act out his fantasies .

Just makes no sense ,  is why I'm skeptical of her claims.

I'm skeptical of her claims (I don't think anyone who posted here isn't) but I think this is what is bothering a lot of people. Derrick Rose is a brand and this woman is a marginalized nobody, not to mention the sexist culture we already live in.

Rapists are interested in violence, not sex.

[PhoSita]

Are you saying there should be a very low threshold of evidence to send an accused rapist to jail, such that a simple accusation should be sufficient, seeing as how there is rarely evidence?

Well, a couple of things:

- A low threshold of evidence, no.  But right now many states require a showing that violence was used to force the victim into having sex, among other stumbling blocks.  In general, even getting the authorities to investigate and prosecute a rape or sexual assault is difficult.  And on college campuses, where rape and sexual assault are alarmingly prevalent, it can be even harder to get the school to do anything at all.

- Aside from prosecution / punishment of sexual violence, there's a great need for better support and resources for people who are survivors of sexual violence, even things as simple as being able to feel like the people in their community will not immediately assume they are making it up.

[PhoSita]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/26/magazine/the-st-pauls-rape-case-shows-why-sexual-assault-laws-must-change.html

A majority of states still erect a far higher barrier to prosecution and conviction by relying “on the concept of force in defining rape,” as the Northwestern University law professor Deborah Tuerkheimer writes in a forthcoming article in The Emory Law Journal. Tuerkheimer finds that in more than half of the 50 states, a judge or jury must find that a person used force to find him or her guilty of rape. The Model Penal Code, created by the American Law Institute in 1962 to influence and standardize criminal lawmaking, also continues to include a force requirement in its definition of rape.

[Eja117]

Are you saying there should be a very low threshold of evidence to send an accused rapist to jail, such that a simple accusation should be sufficient, seeing as how there is rarely evidence?

Well, a couple of things:

- A low threshold of evidence, no.  But right now many states require a showing that violence was used to force the victim into having sex, among other stumbling blocks.  In general, even getting the authorities to investigate and prosecute a rape or sexual assault is difficult.  And on college campuses, where rape and sexual assault are alarmingly prevalent, it can be even harder to get the school to do anything at all.

- Aside from prosecution / punishment of sexual violence, there's a great need for better support and resources for people who are survivors of sexual violence, even things as simple as being able to feel like the people in their community will not immediately assume they are making it up.

I get what you're saying, but at some point in he said she said situations I have to be able to be completely neutral in a situation with no evidence.

I don't know D Rose. Tons of athletes are jerks. Tons of them are nice. I don't know her. I have no idea if she is an evil gold digger, or just liked him and whatnot. 

But I have to be allowed to reserve the right to refuse to believe the worst of either person without knowing them or seeing any evidence.

By the same token if he sues her for defamation I need evidence. I need to see texts or emails or video or have a bunch of witnesses or something. She is also innocent till proven guilty.

[Eja117]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/26/magazine/the-st-pauls-rape-case-shows-why-sexual-assault-laws-must-change.html

A majority of states still erect a far higher barrier to prosecution and conviction by relying “on the concept of force in defining rape,” as the Northwestern University law professor Deborah Tuerkheimer writes in a forthcoming article in The Emory Law Journal. Tuerkheimer finds that in more than half of the 50 states, a judge or jury must find that a person used force to find him or her guilty of rape. The Model Penal Code, created by the American Law Institute in 1962 to influence and standardize criminal lawmaking, also continues to include a force requirement in its definition of rape.

Wait....does that mean various rufies and qualudes are legal in that state? Without consent? I admit there's something I'm not learning that I need to figure out here.

[PhoSita]

As RAINN’s page on rape trauma explains, while some victims do immediately label what happened to them as “rape” and try to bring attention to what happened, it’s also incredibly normal for rape victims to downplay what happened to them, even to the point of being friendly to their attacker. If you see how rape victims are actually treated in the real world—accused of lying, questioned about why they didn’t fight back more, second-guessed at every turn—you might react the same way.

No one wants to be a rape victim. It’s not nuts for victims to think that if they just smile and play nice with their attacker, no one will ever find out and it will all be like it never happened. Many start to only realize weeks or months after the attack that it doesn’t work that way, and then start deciding to make a formal accusation.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/owen-labrie-rape-verdict-myths

[hwangjini_1]

It's amazing that a young rich stud and nice guy ......has to rape women for sex ....?......I would think he'd have a million eger ladies chasing him.  And if there is something special he likes surely with all,his money , he can just pay professional s to act out his fantasies .

Just makes no sense ,  is why I'm skeptical of her claims.

that is because you assume rape = sex. it is far, far more complex than a simple biological urge and is tied to a range of variables, which include but are not limited to: personality disorders, revenge, violence by individuals and groups towards others, desire to harm, a need to punish or dominate others, lack of respect toward the victim, and so much more.

the point is that rape is rarely, if ever, about sex and nothing but sex since power and violence are inevitable dimensions of the rape.

[Eja117]

Again....I admit I do not understand the implication here.....is the idea that in a he said/she said the jury should have found him guilty despite the part where she was nice to him for months after, or is the idea that they shouldn't have considered that as evidence in his favor?

I sometimes feel the implication is that rape survivor advocates want accusers to be able to win criminal cases with very meager evidence, or maybe even none at all, and that we should simply accept their behavior, whatever it is, because that's in the normal realm of what happens.

[Csfan1984]

It's amazing that a young rich stud and nice guy ......has to rape women for sex ....?......I would think he'd have a million eger ladies chasing him.  And if there is something special he likes surely with all,his money , he can just pay professional s to act out his fantasies .

Just makes no sense ,  is why I'm skeptical of her claims.

I'm skeptical of her claims (I don't think anyone who posted here isn't) but I think this is what is bothering a lot of people. Derrick Rose is a brand and this woman is a marginalized nobody, not to mention the sexist culture we already live in.

Rapists are interested in violence, not sex.

Especially in the case of gang rape.

[hwangjini_1]

Again....I admit I do not understand the implication here.....is the idea that in a he said/she said the jury should have found him guilty despite the part where she was nice to him for months after, or is the idea that they shouldn't have considered that as evidence in his favor?

I sometimes feel the implication is that rape survivor advocates want accusers to be able to win criminal cases with very meager evidence, or maybe even none at all, and that we should simply accept their behavior, whatever it is, because that's in the normal realm of what happens.

it is these sorts of questions and doubts that has historically contributed to inhibiting victims of rape from coming forward, along with other reasons. add that 4 out of 5 rapists are known to the victim and it can add to the complexity of the situation of reporting. (many victims state that they are afraid of reporting someone they know since others may not believe them and this may enable the rapist to repeat the act.)

if a person is subjected to violence such as rape that person is traumatized to be sure. add now a society wherein the victim is questioned, challenged, and testimony is doubted from the start. increasingly society is moving away from this practice of questioning the victims' motives, thankfully. (in a mugging, do we ask the victim question such as: "did you have money that might have invited such an assault? did you resist being mugged, or did you agree to it?"; or the public excuse the mugger if such was the case?)

if we add a healthy dash of humiliation and public skepticism and it becomes obvious why 68% of all rapes are never reported; 98% of rapists never spend a day in jail; 44% of victims are under 18 years old and are less empowered to speak.

also, therapies/counselors/et al have established that the number of rape victims who lie about the rape are miniscule. almost all of them speak truthfully when they speak of the crime. yet so many people in society doubt, question, and challenge the victims.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Again....I admit I do not understand the implication here.....is the idea that in a he said/she said the jury should have found him guilty despite the part where she was nice to him for months after, or is the idea that they shouldn't have considered that as evidence in his favor?

I sometimes feel the implication is that rape survivor advocates want accusers to be able to win criminal cases with very meager evidence, or maybe even none at all, and that we should simply accept their behavior, whatever it is, because that's in the normal realm of what happens.

it is these sorts of questions and doubts that has historically contributed to inhibiting victims of rape from coming forward, along with other reasons. add that 4 out of 5 rapists are known to the victim and it can add to the complexity of the situation of reporting. (many victims state that they are afraid of reporting someone they know since others may not believe them and this may enable the rapist to repeat the act.)

if a person is subjected to violence such as rape that person is traumatized to be sure. add now a society wherein the victim is questioned, challenged, and testimony is doubted from the start. increasingly society is moving away from this practice of questioning the victims' motives, thankfully. (in a mugging, do we ask the victim question such as: "did you have money that might have invited such an assault? did you resist being mugged, or did you agree to it?"; or the public excuse the mugger if such was the case?)

if we add a healthy dash of humiliation and public skepticism and it becomes obvious why 68% of all rapes are never reported; 98% of rapists never spend a day in jail; 44% of victims are under 18 years old and are less empowered to speak.

also, therapies/counselors/et al have established that the number of rape victims who lie about the rape are miniscule. almost all of them speak truthfully when they speak of the crime. yet so many people in society doubt, question, and challenge the victims.

good post

[fairweatherfan]

Sexual assault, like just about any traumatic experience, creates irrational thinking and behavior, and freezing up/stalling/just suppressing thinking about it for long periods of time is one of the most common forms of it.  Promptly doing the "smartest" or "most logical" thing is the exception, not the rule.  We could talk all day about why this is the case or how nice it would be if it wasn't the case or how it totally wouldn't be the case if it were us in that situation, but that's the way human beings tend to react to trauma. 

It doesn't have to be more complicated than that in terms of understanding that while Rose's accuser might or might not be telling the truth, waiting so long after the event doesn't say much one way or the other.