Author Topic: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.  (Read 35732 times)

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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #105 on: August 27, 2015, 11:01:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think it's fair to wonder why no criminal charges have been filed.

I think it is fair and understandable to wonder that.

My question is -- why is THAT the thing we've been focusing on here in this thread?  Why is THAT the primary topic here, and not what Derrick Rose may have done, or why he did it, or why our justice system might make it easy for him to get away with it?

Why, in a thread about Derrick Rose being accused of rape, are we talking first and foremost about what the WOMAN in question did? 

This is why, when I see people scoff at the notion that "rape culture" is real, I can only shake my head.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2015, 11:14:08 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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false rape accusations are as evil as rape itself.

I'm going to say that no they are not.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #107 on: August 27, 2015, 11:19:15 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think the fact that wayupnorth probably lives in a small, homogenous community has a lot to do with the way he's posting. That's not a slight, just a statement.

Lol. There is that superiority thing again.

Only people who live in urban areas "get it".

Get real man.

No superiority involved. Just saying that your comments reflect a way of looking at the world that doesn't extend to many parts of it.

"I know more than you because I am have more places"

Doesn't sound like you are smarter or anything, nah.

Since you're using phrases like "I am have more places" then yeah, I would say it sounds like I am smarter than you.  :)
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #108 on: August 27, 2015, 11:23:21 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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false rape accusations are as evil as rape itself.

I'm going to say that no they are not.

Yeah .... the fact that anybody might think to say that kind of underlines the problems here.

Why do we think it's so much more likely that somebody might falsely accuse another person of rape than that one person raped another person? 

Again and again the statistics tell us that the opposite is true.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #109 on: August 28, 2015, 12:05:48 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Sadly, for whatever reason, it seems that we're culturally programmed to blame the victim instead of focusing on the culpability of the attacker.  This thread is a powerful example.

Why are we so intent on talking about why this woman didn't go to the police sooner?  Why aren't we talking about why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused of doing?  If that's not a strong case for the existence of "rape culture," I don't know what is.

The victim is usually easier to blame, I guess, since victims have a tendency to lack power, individually and politically.

the idea of rape culture is a joke, first off, but that is all I will say on that subject.

Second of all, how can you insinuate I blamed the victim?

Because I said I have no idea how she didn't go to the police, she deserved to get raped? What kind of a jump in logic is that?

Here is the thing...I understand why someone like Rose would do something like this, because they are a sick, terrible individual who let fame and money go to his head, and think he can do whatever he wants with no consequences.

I do not understand (though have more of an understanding than I did) how on earth something this terrible could happen and someone wouldn't go to the police.

I would say it is very possible that D Rose did this, possibly even more possible than him not doing it.


But what now, he basically just has to pay her money? That isn't justice. How is money going to fix what happened to her emotionally?

Real justice would be him being arrested and charged with this, but that can't happen because it wasn't reported.

It is like you are mad that things are underreported and underprosectured, but yet when someone says "maybe going to the police sooner could help with both of those things" you say they simply don't understand.

It is very difficult to wrap my head around

At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #110 on: August 28, 2015, 12:18:09 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Nothing would surprise me.

Derek Rose has come across as quite a self-centered Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. the last few years, to be brutally honest. 

1) Team doctors cleared him for a playoff series, yet he insisted he didn't feel comfortable and so he happily sat on the bench and collected millions while his team got slapped out of the playoffs.

2) After taking criticism about how many games he missed, he replied by saying he doesn't he doesn't care what anybody things, and that he doesn't want to have to limp into business meetings when he gets older - in essence admitting that he places greater importance on his potential future business ventures than he does on his current career.  Even though that very career is the one that puts food on the table, a roof overhead, and provides him with the funds he would need to actually START said future business ventures.

Just another example of a typical modern day NBA player, with that selfish and 'entitled' mentality.  Seems to think that that his team should be happy to pay him $20M a year just for the privilege of having his name on their roster and his smiling fact on their bench.

I'm sure I'll cop flak for this post since there everybody out there seems to be (for some unknown reason) blinded into thinking Rose is some perfect gentleman who farts perfume...when really he appears to come across to me as an absolute spoiled brat.

Sigh...the NBA today.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #111 on: August 28, 2015, 12:21:07 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Stallion, do you think that someone who comes across as a spoiled brat is more likely to rape someone than someone who doesn't?

Can I ask how Jared from Subway came across to you this time last year? Would you have pegged him for a kiddie diddler?

I wouldn't have. but he was, and he enabled people who were. And while I guess you can look back and say "jeez I guess he was just trying to get into smaller and smaller jeans it was obvious for years what he was doing" I'm not sure that's enough to reliably cast judgement on prior to the fact.

(also not that it's relevant but the Bulls team doctors are not particularly trustworthy when it comes to players and being cleared to get on the court. Just ask Luol Deng.)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 12:30:24 AM by D.o.s. »
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #112 on: August 28, 2015, 01:00:27 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Stallion, do you think that someone who comes across as a spoiled brat is more likely to rape someone than someone who doesn't?

Can I ask how Jared from Subway came across to you this time last year? Would you have pegged him for a kiddie diddler?

I wouldn't have. but he was, and he enabled people who were. And while I guess you can look back and say "jeez I guess he was just trying to get into smaller and smaller jeans it was obvious for years what he was doing" I'm not sure that's enough to reliably cast judgement on prior to the fact.

(also not that it's relevant but the Bulls team doctors are not particularly trustworthy when it comes to players and being cleared to get on the court. Just ask Luol Deng.)

Had no idea Jared was into what he was till Googling after reading your post. Wow. Plea bargain for 5-12 years? 4k kiddie vids on his computer, including home-made of he and minors.

I struggle by going back and forth with the issue of sexual perpetrators, particularly  pedophiles. I find it very difficult to find a stance/sentiment to grasp that is somewhere in between "sick - general pop for life/till you're targeted as a chester" and "but it's a brain problem... research suggests castration is the only reasonable treatment" (seriously).
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #113 on: August 28, 2015, 01:12:03 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Stallion, do you think that someone who comes across as a spoiled brat is more likely to rape someone than someone who doesn't?

Can I ask how Jared from Subway came across to you this time last year? Would you have pegged him for a kiddie diddler?

I wouldn't have. but he was, and he enabled people who were. And while I guess you can look back and say "jeez I guess he was just trying to get into smaller and smaller jeans it was obvious for years what he was doing" I'm not sure that's enough to reliably cast judgement on prior to the fact.

(also not that it's relevant but the Bulls team doctors are not particularly trustworthy when it comes to players and being cleared to get on the court. Just ask Luol Deng.)

I'm not suggesting that the "spoiled brat" impression he gives off means that he fits the profile of a rapist.  I'm merely highlighting the fact that he doesn't exactly seem like the type who puts the feelings / needs of others above his own. 

I wouldn't sit there and say "Derek Rose - yeah, he seems like the type who would rape somebody".  At the same time if somebody tells me that he did, I wouldn't sit there in shock and disbelief.

Now if somebody told me that Tim Duncan raped somebody, THAT would leave me in absolute shock because he seems like the type of person who always puts other's first.

By no means would you say that being a selfish person means that you would be the type to rape somebody - I would never say such a thing. 

However I do think you'd have to be very self centered to do such a thing, because your level of empathy for the other person would have to be lower than your desire to satisfy your own urges.

The way I see it you'd have to either be extremely selfish, or else you'd have to have a legitimate mental illness (i.e. not fully aware of what you're doing, and the fact that it is harmful to the other person).

If you know that the act is potentially going to be harmful to the other person, but you do it anyway, then you would have to be incredibly selfish (among other things). 

This is why when I hear reports like this about a guy who has had a history of displaying selfish and arrogant behavior, it makes the story somewhat less difficult to believe.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 01:18:52 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #114 on: August 28, 2015, 06:01:40 AM »

Offline RJ87

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I think it's fair to wonder why no criminal charges have been filed.

I think it is fair and understandable to wonder that.

My question is -- why is THAT the thing we've been focusing on here in this thread?  Why is THAT the primary topic here, and not what Derrick Rose may have done, or why he did it, or why our justice system might make it easy for him to get away with it?

Why, in a thread about Derrick Rose being accused of rape, are we talking first and foremost about what the WOMAN in question did? 

This is why, when I see people scoff at the notion that "rape culture" is real, I can only shake my head.

Rape culture is absolutely real - one look at colleges and universities in this country shows any educated person that. I've been an advocate for rape survivors since I can recall. I dealt with it closely in college, and I've been a part of a research team for a documentary discussing rape in Africa during conflict. I want to make clear that I'm not denying the alleged victim but, in a system that's designed to not believe victims, she (and her lawyer) is doing herself a disservice. Derrick Rose isn't remotely perfect - there's been gang affiliation allegations against him in the past and there was that whole SAT fraud situation. But the first thing any competent criminal lawyer will bring up is the lack of a police investigation.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 06:08:15 AM by RJ87 »
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #116 on: August 28, 2015, 08:13:13 AM »

Offline staticcc

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Nothing would surprise me.

Derek Rose has come across as quite a self-centered **** the last few years, to be brutally honest. 

1) Team doctors cleared him for a playoff series, yet he insisted he didn't feel comfortable and so he happily sat on the bench and collected millions while his team got slapped out of the playoffs.

2) After taking criticism about how many games he missed, he replied by saying he doesn't he doesn't care what anybody things, and that he doesn't want to have to limp into business meetings when he gets older - in essence admitting that he places greater importance on his potential future business ventures than he does on his current career.  Even though that very career is the one that puts food on the table, a roof overhead, and provides him with the funds he would need to actually START said future business ventures.

Just another example of a typical modern day NBA player, with that selfish and 'entitled' mentality.  Seems to think that that his team should be happy to pay him $20M a year just for the privilege of having his name on their roster and his smiling fact on their bench.

I'm sure I'll cop flak for this post since there everybody out there seems to be (for some unknown reason) blinded into thinking Rose is some perfect gentleman who farts perfume...when really he appears to come across to me as an absolute spoiled brat.

Sigh...the NBA today.

The NBA today?? Do you have absolutely any idea what NBA players in the 70s and 80s were doing? The NBA players today have way better character than those 30-40 years ago do your research.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #117 on: August 28, 2015, 08:25:31 AM »

Offline littleteapot

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Okay. That's actually a fair point.

I'm guess I'm just wired differently. Because I'd go to the authorities right away if I became a victim of crime.

But point taken.
I think all of us who haven't been through something like this (which includes me) should admit that we have NO IDEA what we would do.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #118 on: August 28, 2015, 08:29:01 AM »

Offline Eja117

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This may not be PC but I need more from victims. I need them to understand that if they don't go to the hospital and to the police fairly quickly to get physical evidence, or if there aren't witnesses or video/photo evidence then they put me in the position of trying to decide between a he said/she said case.  In this country we have a glorious tradition of innocent until proven guilty. I'm not saying it's easy. But I need more.

If you're a judge or a member of a jury in a rape trial, that's the right attitude to have.

But exactly what relevance does "innocent until proven guilty" have as far as your attitude as a bystander when a person brings an allegation of rape?

What good does that do? 

Do you think the accused party really cares one way or another if you, personally, believe he is guilty?  How does that compare to the effect that your vocal skepticism might have on the people around you who perhaps have been victims of sexual violence themselves, but have not spoken up about it? 



Look, I understand the urge to say, "Hey, we can't go around just believing any negative thing we hear about somebody.  Rape is a serious accusation."  Statistically speaking, though, there are probably a lot more people you know who have been or will be victims of sexual violence than there are people who will be falsely accused of perpetrating it.  When you make a point to vocalize your skepticism, you're saying to those survivors and future survivors around you that they will not be believed or supported if they identify themselves as such.
Well...to answer some of that....first of all I try not to be vocal about it too much because I can't really know all the facts. I don't think joining the lynch mob helps victims.  But I'm not some huge crusader for accused rapists either. It's far far too easy for rapists to pull a Rothlisburger and say "It was consensual. That's why I got her drunk as heck and put a huge guard in front of the door."

I guess I hope the tough love type message I'm sending to victims is "If you go to the police immediately I will try my best to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you wait years I'm not sure I will."

I fully admit it's not fair. This isn't a fair thing we're talking about. 

I think realistically the thing I learn here is that we definitely think about giving The Talk to our kids, but we probably need to include "And if anything happens this is what you do right away".  We all know what to do if we break an arm. Sexual assault needs to be more like that, where people are more prepared to confront the issue, as opposed to being in shock. 

I'm not saying the Cosby accusers are bad people or anything like that at all. But they haven't made a positive difference. If just one of them had really followed up and followed through it would have made a much bigger difference (I hope).  Anita Hill...she made a huge difference. Not saying she was right or did it in the best way possible but she made a huge difference. These women didn't. I feel like they just confirmed what we already knew.  I wish for more than that.

And it's not just me. I know at least one woman that talks about being gang raped like 40 years ago and she talks about it like it's some badge of honor. If she were so well adjusted and so strong about it then go to the police. Her own best friends doubt her because instead of talking to people that could make a difference about it (police when it happened) she talks to us about it like 40 years later.  She'll say stuff like "Every single woman I knew in college was raped. Every single one".  So I'll go to her peers and be like "Does that make sense to you" and they'll say "God no. I do not get it when she says stuff like that".   I like this person but it's just not the way to go about it IMHO.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #119 on: August 28, 2015, 08:34:54 AM »

Offline Eja117

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false rape accusations are as evil as rape itself.

I'm going to say that no they are not.

Yeah .... the fact that anybody might think to say that kind of underlines the problems here.

Why do we think it's so much more likely that somebody might falsely accuse another person of rape than that one person raped another person? 

Again and again the statistics tell us that the opposite is true.
This is the deal with that.....rapes are like car crashes. They happen all the time. They hurt tons of people. We become emotionally numb to them. We accept that this could happen. False accusations are like a terrorist attack or a plane crash. Plane crashes and even terrorists attacks statistically kill almost nobody. But when it does it's horrifying to lots of people. Which one does the media cover? So which one ends up in your mind? They both do. They both end up in your mind as legit possibilities. I get far more nervous in a plane than in a car. I shouldn't be but I am.

Rape and false rape accusations both have the ability to crush lives. But false accusations make it that much harder to combat actual rape. To me they are equally horrid.  I'll admit from a certain point of view you could say car crashes are worse than plane crashes. They happen more and affect more people.  But to be involved in a plane crash or a car crash......they're both pretty terrible and in that sense I won't say one is worse than the other.  Further you can get on with your life if you were raped. If you were accused that can follow you a very long time.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 09:19:52 AM by eja117 »