Author Topic: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.  (Read 35776 times)

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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #90 on: August 27, 2015, 07:59:05 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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That is utterly absurd, and completely wrong.

And frankly, quite offensive.

Blaming the victim?

 ::)

Whose culpability in this situation have you focused on to this point in the thread?
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #91 on: August 27, 2015, 08:14:00 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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That is utterly absurd, and completely wrong.

And frankly, quite offensive.

Blaming the victim?

 ::)

Whose culpability in this situation have you focused on to this point in the thread?

Culpability for what?

The act of rape itself?

Or culpability for not getting the police involved?

Are you confusing those two things?

I have focused on what I do not understand.

I can understand how someone who has no morals, and then has the fuel of money and fame to throw on that, feels he has the right to whatever and whoever he wants. It is sick and should be strongly punished.

If the allegations are true, Derrick Rose deserves harsh criminal punishment, not just civil punishment, I mean the guy has a lot of money...losing millions of dollars doesn't hurt him that much. But all of us only have limited time, and serving some of that for such a terrible thing would be deserved, as well has being criminally branded.

I simply feel like reporting it to the police would have been a better way to make a stand against that type of terrible behavior.

It really, really shocks me that you can equate not understanding why she wouldn't go to the police, with blaming her for getting raped.

It is, truly, a strange leap to make, and the fact that you made it, makes me wonder.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #92 on: August 27, 2015, 08:18:17 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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wayupnorth, your failure to understand why so many women do not go to the police when they are sexually assaulted is offensive to many... that's why you're being questioned so much throughout this thread. It's a simple concept to wrap your head around, I don't understand what is getting in the way...

Woman is sexually assaulted. She then feels any one or combination of: fear, shock, shame, worthlsness, helplessness, depression, anxiety, love/attachment to person that hurt her, etc. There is no logical "yeah, but..." that can follow. The after-effects of trauma look a lot different for different people in different situations.

Would you feel differently if, in a hypothetical situation, a woman was told she had been sexually assaulted as a young girl (but she has no recollection of it)? Remove "sex" from the equation, even... what if a married woman is hit by her husband? One time offense by the man who drank too much, or found out she cheated, or had a hypomanic episode, etc.

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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #93 on: August 27, 2015, 08:41:21 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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wayupnorth, your failure to understand why so many women do not go to the police when they are sexually assaulted is offensive to many... that's why you're being questioned so much throughout this thread. It's a simple concept to wrap your head around, I don't understand what is getting in the way...

Woman is sexually assaulted. She then feels any one or combination of: fear, shock, shame, worthlsness, helplessness, depression, anxiety, love/attachment to person that hurt her, etc. There is no logical "yeah, but..." that can follow. The after-effects of trauma look a lot different for different people in different situations.

Would you feel differently if, in a hypothetical situation, a woman was told she had been sexually assaulted as a young girl (but she has no recollection of it)? Remove "sex" from the equation, even... what if a married woman is hit by her husband? One time offense by the man who drank too much, or found out she cheated, or had a hypomanic episode, etc.

Crazy **** happens all the time. Responses to those incidents are often just as crazy. It's not so black and white.

No it isn't, but I don't understand the push back to thinking the best way for more rapists to see justice, is the prosecute them, and they can't be prosecuted if there is no case, because no one went to the police.

I have stated that my intial word choice was incorrect, as that does not accurately represent my position.

I have also stated that it makes more sense to me now, after this thread,as to why one wouldn't report to the police, but still think that that when people are assaulted, physically or sexually, why not have the person charged for it. I don't understand why one wouldn't file criminal charges, and then later file civil charges.

I do not get it.

And apparently, that is me blaming the victim for being raped.

Absolutely wild.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2015, 09:06:21 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Sadly, for whatever reason, it seems that we're culturally programmed to blame the victim instead of focusing on the culpability of the attacker.  This thread is a powerful example.

Why are we so intent on talking about why this woman didn't go to the police sooner?  Why aren't we talking about why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused of doing?  If that's not a strong case for the existence of "rape culture," I don't know what is.

The victim is usually easier to blame, I guess, since victims have a tendency to lack power, individually and politically.
Asking fair questions isn't blaming the victim. Blaming the victim would be like "She had it coming. She probably tried to entrap him. She probably cheated on him and made him mad".

Two different things.

Out of curiosity does anyone know if she is suing the other two guys, or just him?

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2015, 09:34:02 PM »

Online RJ87

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Sadly, for whatever reason, it seems that we're culturally programmed to blame the victim instead of focusing on the culpability of the attacker.  This thread is a powerful example.

Why are we so intent on talking about why this woman didn't go to the police sooner?  Why aren't we talking about why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused of doing?  If that's not a strong case for the existence of "rape culture," I don't know what is.

The victim is usually easier to blame, I guess, since victims have a tendency to lack power, individually and politically.
Asking fair questions isn't blaming the victim. Blaming the victim would be like "She had it coming. She probably tried to entrap him. She probably cheated on him and made him mad".

Two different things.

Out of curiosity does anyone know if she is suing the other two guys, or just him?

I think it's fair to wonder why no criminal charges have been filed. Its still within the statute of limitations. As a female, I would go to the police. As it stands now, if he's guilty he basically pays her off and is free to do this to other women.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2015, 09:35:12 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think the fact that wayupnorth probably lives in a small, homogenous community has a lot to do with the way he's posting. That's not a slight, just a statement.
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2015, 09:48:45 PM »

Offline Eja117

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This may not be PC but I need more from victims. I need them to understand that if they don't go to the hospital and to the police fairly quickly to get physical evidence, or if there aren't witnesses or video/photo evidence then they put me in the position of trying to decide between a he said/she said case.  In this country we have a glorious tradition of innocent until proven guilty. I'm not saying it's easy. But I need more.

What I don't need is women on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine 30 years after the fact. Those people essentially did more harm than good. They sent a message that if you're powerful you can get away with things till it doesn't matter. They essentially enabled Cosby to do what he was doing for a lot longer.

Further I am not a big fan of the picking and choosing of the modern feminist liberal agenda. I get and agree that rape is a huge huge problem. That's why it was so disappointing to see Bill Clinton as the keynote speaker at the DNC. They shouted loudly all summer about a war against women. Then they made Bill C their keynote speaker. He's been accused of rape or sexual assault or very serious sexual harassment by about 6 different people now. When will his accusers be on the cover of Rolling Stone?

Further as it relates to having no empathy for victims and blaming victims...false rape accusations are as evil as rape itself. Where was the media rush to show empathy for the Duke kids falsely accused of rape? Why weren't they on the cover of Rolling Stone?

Either this is a horrid problem (which it is) and we do something about it and we encourage and promote people who went to the police immediately, or we don't but we don't give victims carte blanche to do whatever they want however they want to and still expect the same empathy to be there.  I try to have empathy with victims but I need people to also have empathy for the rest of us and one thing that some of the rest of us don't necessarily like is the idea that you let a rapist walk among us totally scott free for 30 years.

Yes this is unfair. Life is unfair. How you react to that is what matters. Reacting to it 30 years later doesn't help. It hurts. If I had a daughter I would never tell her "If something happens to you whatever you do is fine. 30 years later is ok". I would tell her "Go immediately. Nail that SOB." And the message I want my son seeing isn't "If you're powerful you probably won't get in trouble". I want him to realize "Don't do these things. It's wrong and you'll be caught immediately".

I can't do that if we lionize victims that didn't speak out for 30 years and make Bill C a keynote speaker.

I need more than that.  Not fair but it's the truth. I owe victims and feminists and people that study these things the truth on this.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2015, 10:18:10 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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I think the fact that wayupnorth probably lives in a small, homogenous community has a lot to do with the way he's posting. That's not a slight, just a statement.

Lol. There is that superiority thing again.

Only people who live in urban areas "get it".

Get real man.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2015, 10:20:41 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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This may not be PC but I need more from victims. I need them to understand that if they don't go to the hospital and to the police fairly quickly to get physical evidence, or if there aren't witnesses or video/photo evidence then they put me in the position of trying to decide between a he said/she said case.  In this country we have a glorious tradition of innocent until proven guilty. I'm not saying it's easy. But I need more.

What I don't need is women on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine 30 years after the fact. Those people essentially did more harm than good. They sent a message that if you're powerful you can get away with things till it doesn't matter. They essentially enabled Cosby to do what he was doing for a lot longer.

Further I am not a big fan of the picking and choosing of the modern feminist liberal agenda. I get and agree that rape is a huge huge problem. That's why it was so disappointing to see Bill Clinton as the keynote speaker at the DNC. They shouted loudly all summer about a war against women. Then they made Bill C their keynote speaker. He's been accused of rape or sexual assault or very serious sexual harassment by about 6 different people now. When will his accusers be on the cover of Rolling Stone?

Further as it relates to having no empathy for victims and blaming victims...false rape accusations are as evil as rape itself. Where was the media rush to show empathy for the Duke kids falsely accused of rape? Why weren't they on the cover of Rolling Stone?

Either this is a horrid problem (which it is) and we do something about it and we encourage and promote people who went to the police immediately, or we don't but we don't give victims carte blanche to do whatever they want however they want to and still expect the same empathy to be there.  I try to have empathy with victims but I need people to also have empathy for the rest of us and one thing that some of the rest of us don't necessarily like is the idea that you let a rapist walk among us totally scott free for 30 years.

Yes this is unfair. Life is unfair. How you react to that is what matters. Reacting to it 30 years later doesn't help. It hurts. If I had a daughter I would never tell her "If something happens to you whatever you do is fine. 30 years later is ok". I would tell her "Go immediately. Nail that SOB." And the message I want my son seeing isn't "If you're powerful you probably won't get in trouble". I want him to realize "Don't do these things. It's wrong and you'll be caught immediately".

I can't do that if we lionize victims that didn't speak out for 30 years and make Bill C a keynote speaker.

I need more than that.  Not fair but it's the truth. I owe victims and feminists and people that study these things the truth on this.

At least I am not alone...

Prepared to be called, in one way or another, an animal, hick, or told you are "blaming the victim".

Great stuff.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2015, 10:26:00 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think the fact that wayupnorth probably lives in a small, homogenous community has a lot to do with the way he's posting. That's not a slight, just a statement.

Lol. There is that superiority thing again.

Only people who live in urban areas "get it".

Get real man.

No superiority involved. Just saying that your comments reflect a way of looking at the world that doesn't extend to many parts of it.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2015, 10:27:57 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I would like to comment on your inferiority complex, though. Assuming that's fair game, given your post?
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Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2015, 10:28:04 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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I think the fact that wayupnorth probably lives in a small, homogenous community has a lot to do with the way he's posting. That's not a slight, just a statement.

Lol. There is that superiority thing again.

Only people who live in urban areas "get it".

Get real man.

No superiority involved. Just saying that your comments reflect a way of looking at the world that doesn't extend to many parts of it.

"I know more than you because I am have more places"

Doesn't sound like you are smarter or anything, nah.


Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #103 on: August 27, 2015, 10:29:53 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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I would like to comment on your inferiority complex, though. Assuming that's fair game, given your post?

I don't generally take offense, so do what you will.

This is the interwebz after all.

I tend not to disparage people's opinion based on where  they live, but hey that is just me.

Re: Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.
« Reply #104 on: August 27, 2015, 10:59:22 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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This may not be PC but I need more from victims. I need them to understand that if they don't go to the hospital and to the police fairly quickly to get physical evidence, or if there aren't witnesses or video/photo evidence then they put me in the position of trying to decide between a he said/she said case.  In this country we have a glorious tradition of innocent until proven guilty. I'm not saying it's easy. But I need more.

If you're a judge or a member of a jury in a rape trial, that's the right attitude to have.

But exactly what relevance does "innocent until proven guilty" have as far as your attitude as a bystander when a person brings an allegation of rape?

What good does that do? 

Do you think the accused party really cares one way or another if you, personally, believe he is guilty?  How does that compare to the effect that your vocal skepticism might have on the people around you who perhaps have been victims of sexual violence themselves, but have not spoken up about it? 



Look, I understand the urge to say, "Hey, we can't go around just believing any negative thing we hear about somebody.  Rape is a serious accusation."  Statistically speaking, though, there are probably a lot more people you know who have been or will be victims of sexual violence than there are people who will be falsely accused of perpetrating it.  When you make a point to vocalize your skepticism, you're saying to those survivors and future survivors around you that they will not be believed or supported if they identify themselves as such.
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