Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.

[saltlover]

Yet another reminder that it's important to separate our fandom of what these players do on the court from who they are off the court.  We don't know them, and we shouldn't pretend that we do.

We'll probably never really know how substantial this accusation is.  I try to temper my skepticism when I hear that somebody has been accused of rape, because I know that the statistics for reporting and prosecution of rape are astonishingly low. 

I think we should all try not to assume, any time a public figure we happen to like is accused of sexual assault or rape, that the person bringing the accusation is just looking to make money, or slander somebody with whom they have had a personal falling out. It is that attitude that helps to perpetuate an atmosphere in which victims of sexual violence feel isolated, powerless, and reviled.


An important thing to remember: every single person posting on this forum knows somebody who has been affected by sexual violence, whether or not they are aware of it.  The way you choose to respond to this sort of news story matters.  Derrick Rose doesn't care, really, if you think he's innocent or guilty.  But the people you know who have been affected by sexual violence will notice if you immediately assume these allegations are false, and it will matter to them.

All that said, I sure hope it's not true.  If it is, I hope this woman is getting all of the help and support she needs.

Why on earth wouldn't she report it to the police, and instead wait a long time and sue him?

I have little pity for those who won't go to law enforcement in a situation like this.

Having known multiple women who were raped by men they were in a relationship with, here are some reasons:

1) Embarrassment
2) Fear of retaliation
3) Major depression caused by trauma, making it difficult to just get out of bed, much less talk to a police officer about the incident
4) Feeling physically ill or injured
5) Self-loathing making the victim wonder if it's her fault
6) Distrust that authorities will believe her, because she was in a relationship with her attacker.

There are many other valid reasons that one doesn't contact authorities or go to the hospital immediately.  And frankly, it's near impossible to prove in criminal court if you don't report it shortly after it happens, due to a lack of physical evidence.

That's not to say that what this accuser says is true.  However, having little pity for not going to law enforcement quickly is 100% tone deaf to the pain, fear, and trauma that victims of these crimes experience.

[D.o.s.]

But what use is empathy, anyway?

[PhoSita]

Why on earth wouldn't she report it to the police, and instead wait a long time and sue him?

I have little pity for those who won't go to law enforcement in a situation like this.

I invite you to spend some time reading anything, anything at all, about the challenges that rape victims -- sometimes men, but overwhelmingly women -- face when they try to seek the help of law enforcement after they've been assaulted.

[PhoSita]

That's not to say that what this accuser says is true.  However, having little pity for not going to law enforcement quickly is 100% tone deaf to the pain, fear, and trauma that victims of these crimes experience.

In many states you need to have strong physical evidence that you were physically forced to engage in sexual intercourse in order to have any hope of prosecuting a sexual assault.

It really is not surprising at all when many victims don't end up going to the police.  Our county is extremely cold, even hostile, to people who dare to allege that they have been sexually assaulted.

[notthebowler]

But what use is empathy, anyway?

I totally understand where you are coming from with that question.  I've been there myself, D.o.s.

[Big333223]

This is so sad. There's no happy ending now. If the accuser is lying she's putting Rose and these other guys through something terrible that I wouldn't wish on anyone and something that Rose's public image is unilkely to fully come back from. There are lots of people who have forgotten about Kobe but I don't think it's a stretch to say that almost every basketball fan over the age of 20 immediately thought of Kobe Bryant when they read this Rose headline.

But in reality, it's probably a lot more likely that she's telling the truth than that she's lying. Rape revenge stories are extraordinarily rare. Accusing someone else of rape means opening yourself up to a kind of gross scrutiny that is done done lightly and when we're talking about a public figure like Rose, it's so much worse.

But from here on out, there isn't a happy ending to be had for anyone.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Nuts, man. Even if he's never convicted, it's a nasty enough accusation that it'll probably stick with him.

Kobe Bryant seems to have come out fine from something he actually did.  Being falsely accused is no fun, if that's what this is, but for better or worse, most people just don't care if you're good enough on the court/field/diamond.

What are you basing Kobe's guilt upon? I probably didn't learn enough about the situation to have a strong feeling in either direction, but I don't recall ever thinking "no doubt this is true," and I do genuinely find the issue to be a very serious one (and potentially horrible for either party, depending on the nature and veracity of the accusation).

But, why would we immediately negate the possibility that Rose horribly screwed up? I've always been a big Rose fan, but we don't know the personal lives these guys lead. And as far as Kobe coming out fine, I think it's a safe bet to assume a majority of people believed he was falsely accused. Whether or not that's true, I have no idea... but I'd imagine someone coming out fine after a rape accusation reflects public perception of the incident as much, if not more, than athletic performance.

Here is part of Kobe's statement

"I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year," the statement said. "Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado.

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

So he basically admitted he did it.

Thanks for this (to saltlover, too). Maybe I'm weird and in the minority on this, but I'm reading this less as an admission of guilt (sexual assault) and more as a savvy-ish PR move intended to present himself as a certain type of person (understanding, selfless, empathic, etc.)

I'm reading that the accuser showed up to the rape examination the following day wearing underwear that contained pubic hair and semen from another man. Looks like that is what essentially kept any traction from being made on the case. Girlfriend is a psychologist that worked with rape crisis victims for several years and, unfortunately, this is just one of a million examples of an absence of evidence deemed necessary to prove guilt. May or may not have been there, who knows...

[Moranis]

Nuts, man. Even if he's never convicted, it's a nasty enough accusation that it'll probably stick with him.

Kobe Bryant seems to have come out fine from something he actually did.  Being falsely accused is no fun, if that's what this is, but for better or worse, most people just don't care if you're good enough on the court/field/diamond.

What are you basing Kobe's guilt upon? I probably didn't learn enough about the situation to have a strong feeling in either direction, but I don't recall ever thinking "no doubt this is true," and I do genuinely find the issue to be a very serious one (and potentially horrible for either party, depending on the nature and veracity of the accusation).

But, why would we immediately negate the possibility that Rose horribly screwed up? I've always been a big Rose fan, but we don't know the personal lives these guys lead. And as far as Kobe coming out fine, I think it's a safe bet to assume a majority of people believed he was falsely accused. Whether or not that's true, I have no idea... but I'd imagine someone coming out fine after a rape accusation reflects public perception of the incident as much, if not more, than athletic performance.

Here is part of Kobe's statement

"I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year," the statement said. "Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado.

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

So he basically admitted he did it.

Thanks for this (to saltlover, too). Maybe I'm weird and in the minority on this, but I'm reading this less as an admission of guilt (sexual assault) and more as a savvy-ish PR move intended to present himself as a certain type of person (understanding, selfless, empathic, etc.)

I'm reading that the accuser showed up to the rape examination the following day wearing underwear that contained pubic hair and semen from another man. Looks like that is what essentially kept any traction from being made on the case. Girlfriend is a psychologist that worked with rape crisis victims for several years and, unfortunately, this is just one of a million examples of an absence of evidence deemed necessary to prove guilt. May or may not have been there, who knows...

as a lawyer, I would have never issued this statement on behalf of my client because he basically acknowledges the woman believed she was raped even if Kobe does not.  Pretty much an admission of guilt.

[D.o.s.]

But what use is empathy, anyway?

I totally understand where you are coming from with that question.  I've been there myself, D.o.s.

In case it wasn't clear, that was a rhetorical question in reply to saltlover's post.

I definitely struggle with empathy and sympathy at times, though. I think most people do. Inescapable part of the human condition and all that.

[LooseCannon]

For those who wonder why the woman didn't press criminal charges, the actual complaint gives some plausible reasoning for why she didn't, including shame, embarrassment, and fear that they would come back and rape her again.

There are going to be some witnesses who can provide at least circumstantial evidence.  There is a friend who went with her to Derrick Rose's place and saw her acting bizarrely after allegedly being drugged.  (After she took a taxi back to her apartment, they are accused of going to her place.)  Her roommate came back to find a strange man in the apartment who may have tried to follow her to her bedroom.  The next day, she told a co-worker, who urged her to call the police.  A friend was witness via speakerphone to a conversation between the woman and one of the accused, who said that he thought she was into it because a lot of girls want to have group sex with NBA players and that he hadn't realized she was drugged.

If these witnesses are credible, it would be hard for me to doubt her accusation.

[PhoSita]

as a lawyer, I would have never issued this statement on behalf of my client because he basically acknowledges the woman believed she was raped even if Kobe does not.  Pretty much an admission of guilt.

Kinda makes me wonder if it was part of some kind of agreement between the parties.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I could be really wrong on this, so I would like to apologize in advance if I'm being ignorant with some issues.

With that said, while I understand that there are a lot of factors as why a victim of sexual assault would not go to the authorities, I still don't get it as to why all of a sudden, after two years, this pops up.

Two years is such a long time. Now I'd get if she can't come out right away out of fear, embarrassment or other things. But to take two years? Of course I'd like to know the entire details, but taking so long to get his reported to the authorities sounds fishy to me.

Again, I could be really wrong about this, and if I'm offending somebody, I apologize and would be willing to listen to any takes to further understand this kind of situation. But that's just me. Taking so long to report such a henious crime, why do I have a feeling that there's other motives involved here.

[knuckleballer]

as a lawyer, I would have never issued this statement on behalf of my client because he basically acknowledges the woman believed she was raped even if Kobe does not.  Pretty much an admission of guilt.

Kinda makes me wonder if it was part of some kind of agreement between the parties.

Well, Kobe did acknowledge that he did not treat her well.  So, I don't think his apology was an admission of rape, but of his admittedly bad sexual behavior.

[littleteapot]

I could be really wrong on this, so I would like to apologize in advance if I'm being ignorant with some issues.

With that said, while I understand that there are a lot of factors as why a victim of sexual assault would not go to the authorities, I still don't get it as to why all of a sudden, after two years, this pops up.

Two years is such a long time. Now I'd get if she can't come out right away out of fear, embarrassment or other things. But to take two years? Of course I'd like to know the entire details, but taking so long to get his reported to the authorities sounds fishy to me.

Again, I could be really wrong about this, and if I'm offending somebody, I apologize and would be willing to listen to any takes to further understand this kind of situation. But that's just me. Taking so long to report such a henious crime, why do I have a feeling that there's other motives involved here.

Dude you don't have to be an expert on violence against women. Just look at the news. Allegations against Bill Cosby didn't surface for decades. If you think that a large number of victims of a heinous crime are all not coming forward due to some kind of character flaw, I don't know what to tell you.

[D.o.s.]

Why on earth wouldn't she report it to the police, and instead wait a long time and sue him?

I have little pity for those who won't go to law enforcement in a situation like this.

This is the stupidest post I've ever seen on any forum ever and that is REALLY saying something, especially when there are already other stupid posts in this thread. It's amazing because you posted this right after PhoSita, as usual made a very intelligent and well informed post.

Not that I disagree with you but this is not particularly apropos for CB in terms of tone and you might want to rephrase it as to avoid the wrath of the mods.