Derrick Rose being accused of gang rape.

[Roy H.]

Since you can disagree without calling me an animal, do you perhaps have a link that could potentially show me why not going to the cops after an incident like this is actually rational?

In college, two guys I know well were molested by a well-known guest speaker hosted by the college. It wasn't rape, but it was sexually inappropriate and illegal.  The first didn't say a word until the second disclosed. Nobody went to the police. We went discretely to the deans, and he was escorted off campus, but quietly. The college gave us their full support, but the guys both wanted it kept under wraps, due to embarrassment, unwanted attention, the prestige of the speaker, etc.

I still remember one of the guys breaking down while watching an NBA playoff game, just sobbing. Grades slipped, dropping him below Honors level at graduation. He seemed to move on fine after graduation, but 8 years later, he started talking about going to the cops, etc.  Like, out of nowhere, h e was ready to talk, and wanted this guy to pay.

As for victim #1, as far as I know he just completely buried what happened.

It's a complicated psychological issue. It might not make sense always, but trauma is rarely predictable.

[Forza Juventus]

Why on earth wouldn't she report it to the police, and instead wait a long time and sue him?

I have little pity for those who won't go to law enforcement in a situation like this.

This is the stupidest post I've ever seen on any forum ever and that is REALLY saying something, especially when there are already other stupid posts in this thread. It's amazing because you posted this right after PhoSita, as usual made a very intelligent and well informed post.

Not that I disagree with you but this is not particularly apropos for CB in terms of tone and you might want to rephrase it as to avoid the wrath of the mods.

This is sort of unrelated but I think you and PhoSita and the guy with the Ghandi sig are the best posters here. That being said sorry but I'm not rephrasing my post. Maybe I'll get rid of the all caps in the word really.

Lol because of course you are  the judge of what is stupid and what is not stupid, almighty forza.

If your house gets robbed or your friend gets killed you go to the police, despite fear of retaliation.

No matter what excuses you want to throw out there, the only way for true justice to be served is to immediately go to law enforcement.

I mean seriously, waiting two years to file charges (in civil court, looking for money nonetheless) does not have the look of someone who is that traumatized.

But you all get right back on your high horses and act like what I am saying is stupid and heinous.

If your mom/wife/daughter etc. were in this situation, would you want them to immediately go to th  police or not?

I understand that there are reasons why it is often unreported, but that doesn't mean I don't think they are ridiculous.

Once more, forza, settle down. You are not as wise as you think yourself.

Well you don't understand because you said you have little pitty and said the reasons are ridiculous. Are you a monkey?

Lol. So make fun of others who disagree with you.

Classy and certainly within board rules.

"Are you a monkey".

 . You got issues my man.

I'm totally calm. I don't have issues, you do, you sound like a psycho for not being able to show empathy for victims that would feel emotionally traumatized and uncomfortable, especially when victims lose these cases so often

Dude.
Settle down.

You are reading so much into my post I never said.

But clearly calm people always refer to others as monkeys.

You build up that straw man as high as it will go, by all means.

I didn't say anything you didn't say. You yourself said you have little pitty

lol really?

I am done with you, why do you bother talking to a monkey anyway? One who has written the stupidest post you have ever seen on any forum.

You said you have little pitty and that the reasons for not reporting crimes are ridiculous. I said you sound like a psycho for not showing empathy to victims having trouble reporting crimes. So yeah I didn't say anything you didn't say. As for the monkey comment, I don't think it's any worse than you insulting me. It's a forum man. If you say dumb stuff, you will get criticized

[wayupnorth]

Could part of the lack of prosecution be because many do not simply go to the police as quickly as they can?

And if they don't report it how can anyone know to support them?

Yes, and yes.

What you've hit on is how this works as a vicious cycle.  Victims feel they will meet with doubt, skepticism, even blame and scorn, if they choose to tell somebody.  As a result, cases don't get prosecuted, sexual predators remain free (and often never even get told that what they did was wrong), and future victims continue to feel isolated.

What we need to do is update rape and sexual assault laws across the country to be consistent with a modern understanding of what consensual sex is and is not, and make sure that victims of sexual violence -- whether or not they have a viable legal case -- get the support and help they need to recover from what they have been through. 

We also need to educate men (and women, but mostly men) so that they know what counts as consent and what does not.  Most people will say they know what non-consensual sex is, but from a legal standpoint (and just from a mental health standpoint), most do not.

Where did I say anyone (including this individual) doesn't deserve support and help?

When I said that I, as a random internet poster, have little pity and do not understand how on earth anyone would not report an even like this to police?

Mostly things can and will never change unless individuals who are violated stand up and go to the police, so that punks and criminals who do things like this get what they deserve.

In the end, all I am trying to say is that I cannot understand (for myself, I DO understand that there are reasons people don't, I simply find them odd) why anyone could go through this and not tell police.

If your friend were murdered and you saw the killer, who then told you if you told anyone he would kill you, would you still go to the police? Or would you let your friend die without any sort of justice?

It seems to me the best way to get justice is for those who are in this sort of situation, is to go to the police as quickly as they can.

How can someone not go to the police, and then later get mad that the police can't help them because they waited 4 months?

 

[Roy H.]

It's a forum man. If you say dumb stuff, you will get criticized

To be clear: respectful disagreement and criticism are fine. Personal attacks are not.

[wayupnorth]

Since you can disagree without calling me an animal, do you perhaps have a link that could potentially show me why not going to the cops after an incident like this is actually rational?

In college, two guys I know well were molested by a well-known guest speaker hosted by the college. It wasn't rape, but it was sexually inappropriate and illegal.  The first didn't say a word until the second disclosed. Nobody went to the police. We went discretely to the deans, and he was escorted off campus, but quietly. The college gave us their full support, but the guys both wanted it kept under wraps, due to embarrassment, unwanted attention, the prestige of the speaker, etc.

I still remember one of the guys breaking down while watching an NBA playoff game, just sobbing. Grades slipped, dropping him below Honors level at graduation. He seemed to move on fine after graduation, but 8 years later, he started talking about going to the cops, etc.  Like, out of nowhere, h e was ready to talk, and wanted this guy to pay.

As for victim #1, as far as I know he just completely buried what happened.

It's a complicated psychological issue. It might not make sense always, but trauma is rarely predictable.

I appreciate the story, as it does provide me more insight into something I struggle to comprehend.

Still though, I have to wonder if he had initially gone to the police right away, would he have not felt so low for such a long time?

Would seeing the person who did that thrown in jail, help someone realize that it was not their fault, and they didn't deserve for it to happen?

[wayupnorth]

Why on earth wouldn't she report it to the police, and instead wait a long time and sue him?

I have little pity for those who won't go to law enforcement in a situation like this.

This is the stupidest post I've ever seen on any forum ever and that is REALLY saying something, especially when there are already other stupid posts in this thread. It's amazing because you posted this right after PhoSita, as usual made a very intelligent and well informed post.

Not that I disagree with you but this is not particularly apropos for CB in terms of tone and you might want to rephrase it as to avoid the wrath of the mods.

This is sort of unrelated but I think you and PhoSita and the guy with the Ghandi sig are the best posters here. That being said sorry but I'm not rephrasing my post. Maybe I'll get rid of the all caps in the word really.

Lol because of course you are  the judge of what is stupid and what is not stupid, almighty forza.

If your house gets robbed or your friend gets killed you go to the police, despite fear of retaliation.

No matter what excuses you want to throw out there, the only way for true justice to be served is to immediately go to law enforcement.

I mean seriously, waiting two years to file charges (in civil court, looking for money nonetheless) does not have the look of someone who is that traumatized.

But you all get right back on your high horses and act like what I am saying is stupid and heinous.

If your mom/wife/daughter etc. were in this situation, would you want them to immediately go to th  police or not?

I understand that there are reasons why it is often unreported, but that doesn't mean I don't think they are ridiculous.

Once more, forza, settle down. You are not as wise as you think yourself.

Well you don't understand because you said you have little pitty and said the reasons are ridiculous. Are you a monkey?

Lol. So make fun of others who disagree with you.

Classy and certainly within board rules.

"Are you a monkey".

 . You got issues my man.

I'm totally calm. I don't have issues, you do, you sound like a psycho for not being able to show empathy for victims that would feel emotionally traumatized and uncomfortable, especially when victims lose these cases so often

Dude.
Settle down.

You are reading so much into my post I never said.

But clearly calm people always refer to others as monkeys.

You build up that straw man as high as it will go, by all means.

I didn't say anything you didn't say. You yourself said you have little pitty

lol really?

I am done with you, why do you bother talking to a monkey anyway? One who has written the stupidest post you have ever seen on any forum.

You said you have little pitty and that the reasons for not reporting crimes are ridiculous. I said you sound like a psycho for not showing empathy to victims having trouble reporting crimes. So yeah I didn't say anything you didn't say. As for the monkey comment, I don't think it's any worse than you insulting me. It's a forum man. If you say dumb stuff, you will get criticized

lol

[Roy H.]

Since you can disagree without calling me an animal, do you perhaps have a link that could potentially show me why not going to the cops after an incident like this is actually rational?

In college, two guys I know well were molested by a well-known guest speaker hosted by the college. It wasn't rape, but it was sexually inappropriate and illegal.  The first didn't say a word until the second disclosed. Nobody went to the police. We went discretely to the deans, and he was escorted off campus, but quietly. The college gave us their full support, but the guys both wanted it kept under wraps, due to embarrassment, unwanted attention, the prestige of the speaker, etc.

I still remember one of the guys breaking down while watching an NBA playoff game, just sobbing. Grades slipped, dropping him below Honors level at graduation. He seemed to move on fine after graduation, but 8 years later, he started talking about going to the cops, etc.  Like, out of nowhere, h e was ready to talk, and wanted this guy to pay.

As for victim #1, as far as I know he just completely buried what happened.

It's a complicated psychological issue. It might not make sense always, but trauma is rarely predictable.

I appreciate the story, as it does provide me more insight into something I struggle to comprehend.

Still though, I have to wonder if he had initially gone to the police right away, would he have not felt so low for such a long time?

Would seeing the person who did that thrown in jail, help someone realize that it was not their fault, and they didn't deserve for it to happen?

Conversely, what if nobody believed him? What if he became known as a male "rape victim" on campus? What if the guy got away with it, due to high-priced lawyers, a skeptical police force, or whatever?

It's always easy to rationalize. Why didn't you run? Why didn't you scream? Why didn't you prosecute? Why didn't you do something to protect the next victim?  When you're in the moment, though, I think a lot of people just feel violated, and have to survive their trauma in a personal way.

[wayupnorth]

Since you can disagree without calling me an animal, do you perhaps have a link that could potentially show me why not going to the cops after an incident like this is actually rational?

In college, two guys I know well were molested by a well-known guest speaker hosted by the college. It wasn't rape, but it was sexually inappropriate and illegal.  The first didn't say a word until the second disclosed. Nobody went to the police. We went discretely to the deans, and he was escorted off campus, but quietly. The college gave us their full support, but the guys both wanted it kept under wraps, due to embarrassment, unwanted attention, the prestige of the speaker, etc.

I still remember one of the guys breaking down while watching an NBA playoff game, just sobbing. Grades slipped, dropping him below Honors level at graduation. He seemed to move on fine after graduation, but 8 years later, he started talking about going to the cops, etc.  Like, out of nowhere, h e was ready to talk, and wanted this guy to pay.

As for victim #1, as far as I know he just completely buried what happened.

It's a complicated psychological issue. It might not make sense always, but trauma is rarely predictable.

I appreciate the story, as it does provide me more insight into something I struggle to comprehend.

Still though, I have to wonder if he had initially gone to the police right away, would he have not felt so low for such a long time?

Would seeing the person who did that thrown in jail, help someone realize that it was not their fault, and they didn't deserve for it to happen?

Conversely, what if nobody believed him? What if he became known as a male "rape victim" on campus? What if the guy got away with it, due to high-priced lawyers, a skeptical police force, or whatever?

It's always easy to rationalize. Why didn't you run? Why didn't you scream? Why didn't you prosecute? Why didn't you do something to protect the next victim?  When you're in the moment, though, I think a lot of people just feel violated, and have to survive their trauma in a personal way.

Good points. I think you and Mr. Pho have done a solid job showing me why my "little pity" comment was out of place. There a ton of factors and no two individuals react the same to a traumatic event.

I still think going to the police as soon as possible is the best thing, but I can now see the other side of the coin better.

[PhoSita]

Sadly, for whatever reason, it seems that we're culturally programmed to blame the victim instead of focusing on the culpability of the attacker.  This thread is a powerful example.

Why are we so intent on talking about why this woman didn't go to the police sooner?  Why aren't we talking about why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused of doing?  If that's not a strong case for the existence of "rape culture," I don't know what is.

The victim is usually easier to blame, I guess, since victims have a tendency to lack power, individually and politically.

[Forza Juventus]

Why on earth wouldn't she report it to the police, and instead wait a long time and sue him?

I have little pity for those who won't go to law enforcement in a situation like this.

This is the stupidest post I've ever seen on any forum ever and that is REALLY saying something, especially when there are already other stupid posts in this thread. It's amazing because you posted this right after PhoSita, as usual made a very intelligent and well informed post.

Not that I disagree with you but this is not particularly apropos for CB in terms of tone and you might want to rephrase it as to avoid the wrath of the mods.

This is sort of unrelated but I think you and PhoSita and the guy with the Ghandi sig are the best posters here. That being said sorry but I'm not rephrasing my post. Maybe I'll get rid of the all caps in the word really.

Lol because of course you are  the judge of what is stupid and what is not stupid, almighty forza.

If your house gets robbed or your friend gets killed you go to the police, despite fear of retaliation.

No matter what excuses you want to throw out there, the only way for true justice to be served is to immediately go to law enforcement.

I mean seriously, waiting two years to file charges (in civil court, looking for money nonetheless) does not have the look of someone who is that traumatized.

But you all get right back on your high horses and act like what I am saying is stupid and heinous.

If your mom/wife/daughter etc. were in this situation, would you want them to immediately go to th  police or not?

I understand that there are reasons why it is often unreported, but that doesn't mean I don't think they are ridiculous.

Once more, forza, settle down. You are not as wise as you think yourself.

Well you don't understand because you said you have little pitty and said the reasons are ridiculous. Are you a monkey?

Lol. So make fun of others who disagree with you.

Classy and certainly within board rules.

"Are you a monkey".

 . You got issues my man.

I'm totally calm. I don't have issues, you do, you sound like a psycho for not being able to show empathy for victims that would feel emotionally traumatized and uncomfortable, especially when victims lose these cases so often

Dude.
Settle down.

You are reading so much into my post I never said.

But clearly calm people always refer to others as monkeys.

You build up that straw man as high as it will go, by all means.

I didn't say anything you didn't say. You yourself said you have little pitty

lol really?

I am done with you, why do you bother talking to a monkey anyway? One who has written the stupidest post you have ever seen on any forum.

You said you have little pitty and that the reasons for not reporting crimes are ridiculous. I said you sound like a psycho for not showing empathy to victims having trouble reporting crimes. So yeah I didn't say anything you didn't say. As for the monkey comment, I don't think it's any worse than you insulting me. It's a forum man. If you say dumb stuff, you will get criticized

lol

You are making an ass out of yourself. I said nothing you didn't say

[Forza Juventus]

It's a forum man. If you say dumb stuff, you will get criticized

To be clear: respectful disagreement and criticism are fine. Personal attacks are not.

When I called him a monkey that was just one part of the conversation. And before that I called his post stupid, not him. After he criticized me I called him a monkey. And I never said anything he didn't say.

[wayupnorth]

Sadly, for whatever reason, it seems that we're culturally programmed to blame the victim instead of focusing on the culpability of the attacker.  This thread is a powerful example.

Why are we so intent on talking about why this woman didn't go to the police sooner?  Why aren't we talking about why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused of doing?  If that's not a strong case for the existence of "rape culture," I don't know what is.

The victim is usually easier to blame, I guess, since victims have a tendency to lack power, individually and politically.

the idea of rape culture is a joke, first off, but that is all I will say on that subject.

Second of all, how can you insinuate I blamed the victim?

Because I said I have no idea how she didn't go to the police, she deserved to get raped? What kind of a jump in logic is that?

Here is the thing...I understand why someone like Rose would do something like this, because they are a sick, terrible individual who let fame and money go to his head, and think he can do whatever he wants with no consequences.

I do not understand (though have more of an understanding than I did) how on earth something this terrible could happen and someone wouldn't go to the police.

I would say it is very possible that D Rose did this, possibly even more possible than him not doing it.

But what now, he basically just has to pay her money? That isn't justice. How is money going to fix what happened to her emotionally?

Real justice would be him being arrested and charged with this, but that can't happen because it wasn't reported.

It is like you are mad that things are underreported and underprosectured, but yet when someone says "maybe going to the police sooner could help with both of those things" you say they simply don't understand.

It is very difficult to wrap my head around

[PhoSita]

Second of all, how can you insinuate I blamed the victim?

Because I said I have no idea how she didn't go to the police, she deserved to get raped? What kind of a jump in logic is that?

Throughout this thread, you have focused on why this woman chose not to go to the police, instead of focusing on why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused by this woman of doing.

If you don't understand how that is "blaming the victim," I don't know what to tell you.

[wayupnorth]

Second of all, how can you insinuate I blamed the victim?

Because I said I have no idea how she didn't go to the police, she deserved to get raped? What kind of a jump in logic is that?

Throughout this thread, you have focused on why this woman chose not to go to the police, instead of focusing on why Derrick Rose might have done what he is accused by this woman of doing.

If you don't understand how that is "blaming the victim," I don't know what to tell you.

You cannot be serious.

If she had gone to the police, Rose might have actually been punished for such a terrible act.

Now, he will get a fine.

Because I want to see him criminally prosecuted, I am blaming the victim?

That is utterly absurd, and completely wrong.

And frankly, quite offensive.

Blaming the victim?

 

[notthebowler]

Nevermind.