Author Topic: C's and Zeller talking extension  (Read 10050 times)

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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2015, 10:15:49 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I really don't like Tyler Zeller.

Yes, I love his hard work, and quick motor. But hes a back up center. So why are we thinking of extending a back up center, especially if we don't have a starting one, and our chances of getting one are slim to none?

Because quality, reliable, durable centers are hard to find, and locking up Zeller long term in no way hinders our ability to acquire and / or develop a starting caliber center.

Even if it's just as a trade asset, Zeller is a nice piece to have.  Timofey Mozgov netted the Nuggets TWO first round picks this past season! 

Seven footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time are always valuable.  If you can lock one up to a reasonable deal, it almost always makes sense to do it.
Mozgov is a significantly better center because he is significantly better on defense.  It isn't close and Mozgov is actually a fairly effective offensive player.  Probably not the upside of Zeller on that end, but Mozgov could worse defensively and still be better than Zeller will ever be on that end of the floor.
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2015, 11:07:49 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I really don't like Tyler Zeller.

Yes, I love his hard work, and quick motor. But hes a back up center. So why are we thinking of extending a back up center, especially if we don't have a starting one, and our chances of getting one are slim to none?

Because quality, reliable, durable centers are hard to find, and locking up Zeller long term in no way hinders our ability to acquire and / or develop a starting caliber center.

Even if it's just as a trade asset, Zeller is a nice piece to have.  Timofey Mozgov netted the Nuggets TWO first round picks this past season! 

Seven footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time are always valuable.  If you can lock one up to a reasonable deal, it almost always makes sense to do it.
Mozgov is a significantly better center because he is significantly better on defense.  It isn't close and Mozgov is actually a fairly effective offensive player.  Probably not the upside of Zeller on that end, but Mozgov could worse defensively and still be better than Zeller will ever be on that end of the floor.

I think Mozgov is a better player, but not by THAT much. It depends on the needs of the team.  In any case, the point is, competent seven footers will always have value.  Zeller, even making $8-10 million per year, will have significant trade value.  This is an easy decision.  Locking him up long term won't hinder the team's ability to add players in the future.  It will just secure team control over a decent asset for another 4-5 years after this upcoming season.  No-brainer.
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2015, 11:48:17 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Umm... I don't get why you don't understand my logic...

Why pay for a center who only has a ceiling as a really good back up? Hes not a starting center.

Because no NBA team is made up entirely of starters, and no players in the NBA would ever play for free. 

Hence paying for a back up center is kind of a requirement...

And honestly, if Zeller wanted 8-10 mil or more, I would let him walk.

For $10M I would also let him walk. 

For $7M - $8M a year (over 3 -4 years) I'd probably do it, since that's basically a MLE deal with this rising cap.  Tyler Zeller on a MLE deal is pretty solid value. 

And we don't have any other centers? So what? You would be content with paying a guy 8-10 million and ruin our cap flexibility, who has absolutely no chance of starting on any contending team?

First of all, last I checked we project to have almost NO money committed to players beyond this year.  We probably would have been under the apron, forcing us to spend money just for the sake of spending money.  Re-signing Jerebko and Crowder may have helped with that, but adding Zeller on a cap-friendly deal certainly won't brake us.  We are going to have cap space to burn, and if you can get solid players on solid deals, you do it.

Regardless of whether we manage to secure a big name player next off-season, having a few strong bench players is always nice. 

Again I'd be a bit hessitant at $10M, but at $8M it seems like a safe move. 

Plus in all fairness, look at what Cleveland were reportedly offering Tristan Thompson...a guy who does nothing well bar rebound.  I'd rather pay $10M for Zeller than $17M for Thompson.

Finally, Zeller might have more upside than people think.  He has legit size for a center, he can score efficiently around the basket, runs the break well, has a very consistent midrange jumper, is a skilled P&R finisher,  gets to the line at a good rate (and shoots a good percentage there), has great hands, is a pretty good passer, and is a solid rebounder,  He doesn't have the upside to be a star, but he I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop into a solid starter - especially if he can learn to hold his own on defense. 

About the only offensive skill he lacks is three point range, but given his impressive touch from midrange it wouldn't surprise me to see him develop that part of his game as well.

I look at how far he's come from 2013/14 to 2014/15 and I feel like he's really made some big strides in the space of one season.  No reason to believe he won't continue to get better as a player.

 

 

Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2015, 08:56:56 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Because no NBA team is made up entirely of starters, and no players in the NBA would ever play for free. 
  Few of them are made of all bench players either, so go figure.

Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2015, 09:18:28 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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If there's one thing the past has shown us, it's that it's fairly difficult to overpay a center who can contribute and stay on the court, no matter how limited his skillset or ceiling.  I suspect Danny knows this. 

I still think he's only going to do the extension if it's at a good bargain, I just think some of us will be surprised at what a bargain price for Zeller actually looks like.

Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2015, 09:31:57 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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It doesn't matter if you think $8-10 million a year would be an overpay.  What matters is whether or not you think he would still be an asset signed to a deal with that annual value. 

Would the team still be able to trade him for value if it wanted to?  Yes, I think so.

Would the team be prevented from signing or trading for another center who could become a long term starter?  Almost certainly not.



The only reason I can see for not re-signing Zeller is if you think the team needs to absolutely maximize its cap space next summer in order to sign multiple max level free agents.

If you think the Celts have any chance of doing that, I have a bridge in Siberia to sell you.
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2015, 09:36:46 AM »

Offline Moranis

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It doesn't matter if you think $8-10 million a year would be an overpay.  What matters is whether or not you think he would still be an asset signed to a deal with that annual value. 

Would the team still be able to trade him for value if it wanted to?  Yes, I think so.

Would the team be prevented from signing or trading for another center who could become a long term starter?  Almost certainly not.



The only reason I can see for not re-signing Zeller is if you think the team needs to absolutely maximize its cap space next summer in order to sign multiple max level free agents.

If you think the Celts have any chance of doing that, I have a bridge in Siberia to sell you.
I don't think Zeller can be traded as an asset at 10 million a year. 
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2015, 09:43:41 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't think Zeller can be traded as an asset at 10 million a year.

We'll have to disagree on that.  Tyler Zeller at 10% of the cap, provided he continues to be productive and healthy, should be an easily movable asset.  Probably worth a first round pick or more, if he continues to produce like he did last year and the team remains decent.
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2015, 05:05:48 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I really don't like Tyler Zeller.

Yes, I love his hard work, and quick motor. But hes a back up center. So why are we thinking of extending a back up center, especially if we don't have a starting one, and our chances of getting one are slim to none? Way I see it, Zeller will either try to resign for a very team friendly option contract, or he'll just have a good contract that can allow Ainge to flip him to another team.

I'm not set on Zeller, and really don't want to re-sign. If we had acquired a dominant center, and Zeller was still here, then sure, extend him all you want, but hes not a starting caliber center.
I don't understand your logic. We don't have any other centers so we should get rid of him and have no centers? But if we did have a better center then we should spend money on a redundant player?

Umm... I don't get why you don't understand my logic...

Why pay for a center who only has a ceiling as a really good back up? Hes not a starting center.

And honestly, if Zeller wanted 8-10 mil or more, I would let him walk.

And we don't have any other centers? So what? You would be content with paying a guy 8-10 million and ruin our cap flexibility, who has absolutely no chance of starting on any contending team?

I see you're confused by my slim to none comment.

I don't see us getting a center this year through any trades. I see us getting a center in the off-season, where teams will know where our picks will land.
That still makes no sense. You don't want Zeller because we don't already have a center but if we had another center you would want to extend him?

If we already had a (better) center, then Zeller's skills would be redundant and it wouldn't make any sense to extend him. Now, without another traditional center on the roster, it does make sense to keep him around, at least until we get a better player.
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2015, 05:06:31 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I don't think Zeller can be traded as an asset at 10 million a year.

We'll have to disagree on that.  Tyler Zeller at 10% of the cap, provided he continues to be productive and healthy, should be an easily movable asset.  Probably worth a first round pick or more, if he continues to produce like he did last year and the team remains decent.
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Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2015, 06:12:53 PM »

Offline greece66

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Incidentally, the same discussion is going on in Reddit maybe you guys would like to take a look.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/3imtoe/rumor_extension_deal_for_tyler_zeller_at_5050/

Re: C's and Zeller talking extension
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2015, 09:52:34 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Great point that we are not signing two players to a max deal next year. So if you have to splurge a little too keep him, so be it.  4 years 40 million is my ceiling.