[Woj] Charlotte finalizing multi-year extension with Kidd-Gilchrist.

[MBunge]

Wait so, people love Kidd-Gilchrist for $52 million for his potential (even though statistically he's in no way worth that kind of money) but want to cut James Young (who has more potential offensively) on a rookie scale contract? 

You are new around here so I'll let you in on a secret.  There's a portion of the folks around here for whom current non-Celtics player > current Celtics player and other team's moves > Ainge's moves.

That's why you get drooling over this MKG deal after so much gnashing of teeth over Bradley's deal or why there's so much love for the proven-nothing MKG and disdain for not-even-had-a-chance Young.

Mike

[Rondo9]

Wait so, people love Kidd-Gilchrist for $52 million for his potential (even though statistically he's in no way worth that kind of money) but want to cut James Young (who has more potential offensively) on a rookie scale contract? 

You are new around here so I'll let you in on a secret.  There's a portion of the folks around here for whom current non-Celtics player > current Celtics player and other team's moves > Ainge's moves.

That's why you get drooling over this MKG deal after so much gnashing of teeth over Bradley's deal or why there's so much love for the proven-nothing MKG and disdain for not-even-had-a-chance Young.

Mike

To be fair MKG is more proven than Young (I know he hasn't been given too many chances but still.) and has more upside than Bradley.

[Csfan1984]

I know people want to say it's not an overpay if it's just 12% of the cap but I don't agree. If you are lucky to have two stars and each is in the mid years max that can be 60% of the cap. MKG is more like the 5th best starter on a good team. So say the third best player isn't a max guy but is a borderline all star and well know player who helps create a big three. He will likely command about 20% of the cap. Now that is 80% without MKG. Add in his 12% as the 4th highest paid player and that leaves 10 players for 8% of the cap. The C's practically have IT + Crowder for the cost of MKG and IT is a legit 4th best player on a good team and Crowder is a decent 9 man rotation player. You should not overpay role players unless you have two max level stars. This was a bad move IMO because Hornets don't have those stars.

[Moranis]

I know people want to say it's not an overpay if it's just 12% of the cap but I don't agree. If you are lucky to have two stars and each is in the mid years max that can be 60% of the cap. MKG is more like the 5th best starter on a good team. So say the third best player isn't a max guy but is a borderline all star and well know player who helps create a big three. He will likely command about 20% of the cap. Now that is 80% without MKG. Add in his 12% as the 4th highest paid player and that leaves 10 players for 8% of the cap. The C's practically have IT + Crowder for the cost of MKG and IT is a legit 4th best player on a good team and Crowder is a decent 9 man rotation player. You should not overpay role players unless you have two max level stars. This was a bad move IMO because Hornets don't have those stars.

This has been my position the entire time.  MKG is a role player, you don't pay role players 12% of the cap, especially when you don't have a championship core already in place (for example, the Cavs signing Shumpert at 10 million a year makes a lot more sense when you have James, Love, and Irving).

[chambers]

I know people want to say it's not an overpay if it's just 12% of the cap but I don't agree. If you are lucky to have two stars and each is in the mid years max that can be 60% of the cap. MKG is more like the 5th best starter on a good team. So say the third best player isn't a max guy but is a borderline all star and well know player who helps create a big three. He will likely command about 20% of the cap. Now that is 80% without MKG. Add in his 12% as the 4th highest paid player and that leaves 10 players for 8% of the cap. The C's practically have IT + Crowder for the cost of MKG and IT is a legit 4th best player on a good team and Crowder is a decent 9 man rotation player. You should not overpay role players unless you have two max level stars. This was a bad move IMO because Hornets don't have those stars.

I think Charlotte is banking on him becoming a better scorer this season. He's only attempting 8.5 shots a game and shooting 46%.
He's worked on his jumpshot a lot and has continued to do so over the off season. The Hornets hired him a shooting coach who is slowly changing his form completely. If they are seeing positive results from him at such a young age it's an understandable gamble on their behalf.

At 21 years old, even though he's not shooting any threes, his field goal perecent being 46% if they get him 16-20 shots a game at 17-20 points per game, 8 rebounds and some elite defense then yeah, it's certainly not a terrible deal at 12% of the cap. Just my opinion.

[Smitty77]

I know people want to say it's not an overpay if it's just 12% of the cap but I don't agree. If you are lucky to have two stars and each is in the mid years max that can be 60% of the cap. MKG is more like the 5th best starter on a good team. So say the third best player isn't a max guy but is a borderline all star and well know player who helps create a big three. He will likely command about 20% of the cap. Now that is 80% without MKG. Add in his 12% as the 4th highest paid player and that leaves 10 players for 8% of the cap. The C's practically have IT + Crowder for the cost of MKG and IT is a legit 4th best player on a good team and Crowder is a decent 9 man rotation player. You should not overpay role players unless you have two max level stars. This was a bad move IMO because Hornets don't have those stars.

I think Charlotte is banking on him becoming a better scorer this season. He's only attempting 8.5 shots a game and shooting 46%.
He's worked on his jumpshot a lot and has continued to do so over the off season. The Hornets hired him a shooting coach who is slowly changing his form completely. If they are seeing positive results from him at such a young age it's an understandable gamble on their behalf.

At 21 years old, even though he's not shooting any threes, his field goal perecent being 46% if they get him 16-20 shots a game at 17-20 points per game, 8 rebounds and some elite defense then yeah, it's certainly not a terrible deal at 12% of the cap. Just my opinion.

I agree Chambers, but that is a BIG "if."

Smitty77

[Eja117]

I just don't believe 13mill is the new 6mill.  He has never been all nba defender (unlike Avery Bradley) and he isn't even a decent offensive player (unlike Avery Bradley).  He's a bust. This isn't what you're supposed to get at the 2nd pick.

He should be paid like a 7th man. They're paying for upside. No reason.

[Eja117]

See this is why Ainge is a better GM than some GMs. MKG is like 80% of Avery B, but they're gonna pay him almost 200% of what AB will make.

[TheTruthFot18]

See this is why Ainge is a better GM than some GMs. MKG is like 80% of Avery B, but they're gonna pay him almost 200% of what AB will make.

Closer to 150%.

MKG seems to be a better defender in that system. His def and off ratings as well as W/S were better than AB on a worse team. He doesn't have range but AB is not exactly ray allen.

[Rondo9]

See this is why Ainge is a better GM than some GMs. MKG is like 80% of Avery B, but they're gonna pay him almost 200% of what AB will make.

Closer to 150%.

MKG seems to be a better defender in that system. His def and off ratings as well as W/S were better than AB on a worse team. He doesn't have range but AB is not exactly ray allen.

Very few players are Ray Allen. Bradley is a way better shooter than MKG.

[D.o.s.]

That's true, but MKG can defend two and a half positions (SG>Small Ball PF) while Bradley can really only defend the 1 and smaller 2's.

The fact that AB was signed to a contract well before teams knew what this year's salary cap was going to be would negate any comparison of their contracts like that, though -- it was pretty common knowledge that while Bradley's deal was an overpay relative to his immediate contemporaries, he was going to become a bargain quite quickly.

[Csfan1984]

See this is why Ainge is a better GM than some GMs. MKG is like 80% of Avery B, but they're gonna pay him almost 200% of what AB will make.

I agree DA is better than a lot of other GMs but let's not let DA off the hook completely when it comes to cost control of role players. DA should have paid the extra year on Posey but went cheap. That I believe cost the team another ring. You can overpay once you have a big three and starting 5 locked up as in what C's had.

[fairweatherfan]

See this is why Ainge is a better GM than some GMs. MKG is like 80% of Avery B, but they're gonna pay him almost 200% of what AB will make.

I agree DA is better than a lot of other GMs but let's not let DA off the hook completely when it comes to cost control of role players. DA should have paid the extra year on Posey but went cheap. That I believe cost the team another ring. You can overpay once you have a big three and starting 5 locked up as in what C's had.

It's not that we were unwilling to overpay Posey for 1 year out of 4, it's that we were willing to overpay him for 2 years out of 3, but not 3 out of 4.  His contract was an albatross by the 2nd season, to the point that he was paid not to play in year 4.

The failure to resign Tony Allen at a younger age for fewer $ is to me a much more indefensible decision during the Big 3 era.

[Endless Paradise]

I guarantee that a year ago, you would've ventured to bet there was no shot of Iguodala ever receiving a Finals MVP until it happened. Regardless, I'm not sure what the Finals MVP has to do with this since Iggy won that largely on the strength of his defense against LeBron.

Funny, I thought he was amazingly efficient on offense as well.  He averaged 16.3 points, 5.8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

He was. If you'd actually bother to read and/or properly comprehend my post, you'd see how I said he won that *largely* on the strength of his defense.

Here's one of the Cleveland media personalities discussing why he voted Iguodala for MVP:

Two defining factors shaped my final vote: In my mind James had to get it to a Game 7 and Iguodala’s insertion into the starting lineup changed everything. His on/off numbers were indicative of this entire series. When Iguodala was off the court, LeBron shot 44 percent and the Cavs outscored the Warriors by 30 points. When Iguodala was on the court, he was James’ primary defender. James shot 38 percent and the Warriors outscored the Cavs by 55. If the Warriors didn’t have Iguodala, the Cavs would’ve won this series. That’s pretty valuable in my eyes.

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-cavaliers/cleveland-cavaliers-1.275356/warriors-105-cavs-97-jason-lloyd-s-51-thoughts-on-a-51-year-drought-and-why-iguodala-was-mvp-1.601019?localLinksEnabled=false

Here's Marc Spears crediting Iguodala's defense for why he felt he should be MVP:

http://www.knbr.com/2015/06/15/spears-backs-iguodala-for-nba-finals-mvp/

So, again, his MVP was largely due to his defense. As per a few of the actual people who voted for him.

Also, why didn't you respond to Iggy making 790 threes to MKG's 3.  There really is not anything you could say, so I certainly understand you just ignoring that.

Because it's irrelevant? Iguodala didn't win Finals MVP because he's made 790 career three pointers. Good for you being able to read a stat on BBRef, I guess.

[guava_wrench]

Iggy's finals MVP is irrelevant to this discussion as it happened after he got his contract.

What IS relevant is that he actually made an all star game before that contract and he was also the centerpiece of a Philly team. He was already viewed as a borderline all star before the deal. MKG is no where near that level of accomplishment. There is a reason why Iguodala played on FIBA championships and olympics teams.

Look at the caliber of player on that 2012 London team:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team

That was not a team desperate for players.

Contracts aren't based on analogy and style is not a sufficient justification for equating players.