[Woj] Charlotte finalizing multi-year extension with Kidd-Gilchrist.

[Smitty77]

I wouldn't have paid him more than 9-10 mill a season until he showed some offensive improvement.

He did exactly that last year. His jump shot was worlds better just as far as form alone. Now he just needs to work on being more efficient with it. And by most accounts, he has the work ethic and potential to do just that.

that's great that he has that work ethic and his form looks better.  wouldn't start paying him big $ until the results showed themselves on the court though

He's basically league-average from midrange now. The results are showing themselves.

He is also almost exactly at the league average in PER.  He was a 15.1 last year.

Smitty77

[guava_wrench]

http://t.co/YeWLpjQat4

Edit: 4 years, $52 million. INSANELY good value for Charlotte. He's getting paid marginally more than Iguodala was when he signed with the Warriors under a larger cap and with far more potential and upside.

I don't get the "far more potential and upside" comment. Iguodala was established when he signed that deal.

There is no point in only talking about potential without talking about actual contribution.

[jambr380]

Not a horrible deal for reasons already discussed (potential, Charlotte not being able to afford to let good players go, etc), but he basically signed for what Demarre Carroll signed for and for almost twice what Crowder just got. If he was not the #2 pick in the draft, he likely would have gotten something closer to Crowder.

[Endless Paradise]

He is also almost exactly at the league average in PER.  He was a 15.1 last year.

… okay? The discussion is specifically about his offensive capabilities.

http://t.co/YeWLpjQat4

Edit: 4 years, $52 million. INSANELY good value for Charlotte. He's getting paid marginally more than Iguodala was when he signed with the Warriors under a larger cap and with far more potential and upside.

I don't get the "far more potential and upside" comment. Iguodala was established when he signed that deal.

There is no point in only talking about potential without talking about actual contribution.

MKG and Iguodala are both really great wing defenders with weak/iffy offense. That's the "actual contribution" I was alluding to.

[RJ87]

Draymond Green signed a maximum contract this offseason. When you consider the MKG's age, the improvements he's already made, and his reported work ethic, I think his floor is basically what Draymond Green was last season. It's worth the investment, IMO.

This is the new NBA.

I disagree. I think he can reach 2015 Draymond Green level, and I dont think it out of the question that he could surpass that level, but I do not think it is by any means a given that he reaches that level.

That being said I like the deal for Charlotte.

He said floor, not ceiling.

The thing is MKG has never come close to what Green was last year and he will never be the shooter Green is.  MKG has shown nothing that says he is worth 12% of the cap.  Green has shown that he could be worth the 15% or so he will be paid (and he still has some work to do to get there).

I know...
I think Kidd-Gilchrist's ceiling is slightly above 2015 Draymond Green. I think to say his floor is 2015 Draymond Green is either to not understand what "floor" means, to be a member of the Kidd-Gilchrist family, or to be a delusional Bobcats fan.

I definitely know what "floor" means, I can assure you. Here's a side by side comparison of Green and MKG http://bkref.com/tiny/nWN2H

Despite MKG being 4 years younger, they've been in the league for the same amount of years. Their numbers are strikingly similar - the biggest difference being Green's 3pt shooting. Even with that, Green had a career year last season at 34% - slightly above the league average of 33%.

[Smitty77]

He is also almost exactly at the league average in PER.  He was a 15.1 last year.

… okay? The discussion is specifically about his offensive capabilities.

http://t.co/YeWLpjQat4

Edit: 4 years, $52 million. INSANELY good value for Charlotte. He's getting paid marginally more than Iguodala was when he signed with the Warriors under a larger cap and with far more potential and upside.

I don't get the "far more potential and upside" comment. Iguodala was established when he signed that deal.

There is no point in only talking about potential without talking about actual contribution.

MKG and Iguodala are both really great wing defenders with weak/iffy offense. That's the "actual contribution" I was alluding to.

But one of them was just the NBA Finals MVP and has taken 2374 three pointers and made 790 and shot 33% from long range.  The OTHER has taken 18 threes and made 3 for a 16.7%.  Hardly a great analogy.  I would venture to bet anyone that MKG will never be the Finals MVP.

Smitty77

[Endless Paradise]

I guarantee that a year ago, you would've ventured to bet there was no shot of Iguodala ever receiving a Finals MVP until it happened. Regardless, I'm not sure what the Finals MVP has to do with this since Iggy won that largely on the strength of his defense against LeBron.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Would you rather have MKG for 8-9 million or Amir Johnson at 12 million? Per-36 numbers are incredibly similar with the exception of shooting percentage.
I'd go Amir, based on team needs, but can see pretty easily see an argument for MKG.

[RJ87]

Would you rather have MKG for 8-9 million or Amir Johnson at 12 million? Per-36 numbers are incredibly similar with the exception of shooting percentage.
I'd go Amir, based on team needs, but can see pretty easily see an argument for MKG.

MKG, also based on team needs. We desperately need an upgrade at SF and you can play MKG at the 4 in small ball lineups and he can still hold his own defensively. His age is also a huge factor. I'm not knocking Amir, I like the addition. But I think a player at a position of need, only 22 and with the work ethic and motor he has - you have to pull that trigger. Actually, can we transplant MKG's motor into Perry Jones? We'd really be onto something there...

[tarheelsxxiii]

Would you rather have MKG for 8-9 million or Amir Johnson at 12 million? Per-36 numbers are incredibly similar with the exception of shooting percentage.
I'd go Amir, based on team needs, but can see pretty easily see an argument for MKG.

MKG, also based on team needs. We desperately need an upgrade at SF and you can play MKG at the 4 in small ball lineups and he can still hold his own defensively. His age is also a huge factor. I'm not knocking Amir, I like the addition. But I think a player at a position of need, only 22 and with the work ethic and motor he has - you have to pull that trigger. Actually, can we transplant MKG's motor into Perry Jones? We'd really be onto something there...

Yeah, I can definitely see how he'd immediately improve the team. My hesitation would be that his inability to stretch the floor at this point, given we are void of shooting. Ideally, our SF upgrade would be a scorer, especially given Crowder and Jereb's defensive contributions. But yeah, we also aren't contending any time soon... so given his age your point is well-taken.

[RJ87]

Would you rather have MKG for 8-9 million or Amir Johnson at 12 million? Per-36 numbers are incredibly similar with the exception of shooting percentage.
I'd go Amir, based on team needs, but can see pretty easily see an argument for MKG.

MKG, also based on team needs. We desperately need an upgrade at SF and you can play MKG at the 4 in small ball lineups and he can still hold his own defensively. His age is also a huge factor. I'm not knocking Amir, I like the addition. But I think a player at a position of need, only 22 and with the work ethic and motor he has - you have to pull that trigger. Actually, can we transplant MKG's motor into Perry Jones? We'd really be onto something there...

Yeah, I can definitely see how he'd immediately improve the team. My hesitation would be that his inability to stretch the floor at this point, given we are void of shooting. Ideally, our SF upgrade would be a scorer, especially given Crowder and Jereb's defensive contributions. But yeah, we also aren't contending any time soon... so given his age your point is well-taken.

Agreed there. It's off-topic but I think we should target Chandler Parsons next offseason (although I think he ends up staying in Dallas).

[chambers]

This debate over whether or not MKG deserves this much, or if it's an overpay leads to another interesting topic>

Should small market teams be able to sign their own rookies or even all players for an extra 10-20% (or more) without it affecting the cap? Like a rookie Bird Rights kinda thingy?

They use this rule in some sports leagues and it works quite well.

Personally I wouldn't mind if teams like Charlotte and New Orleans could sign their own guys to a bit more in hopes of keeping their better young players.

Another way to look at this MKG thing is that if you think $10 million is a reasonable deal for MKG, expect that Charlotte probably has to pay players slightly more to stay....

[Smitty77]

I guarantee that a year ago, you would've ventured to bet there was no shot of Iguodala ever receiving a Finals MVP until it happened. Regardless, I'm not sure what the Finals MVP has to do with this since Iggy won that largely on the strength of his defense against LeBron.

Funny, I thought he was amazingly efficient on offense as well.  He averaged 16.3 points, 5.8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

Also, why didn't you respond to Iggy making 790 threes to MKG's 3.  There really is not anything you could say, so I certainly understand you just ignoring that.

Smitty77

16.3/5.8/4.0

[green147]

Wait so, people love Kidd-Gilchrist for $52 million for his potential (even though statistically he's in no way worth that kind of money) but want to cut James Young (who has more potential offensively) on a rookie scale contract? 

[chambers]

Wait so, people love Kidd-Gilchrist for $52 million for his potential (even though statistically he's in no way worth that kind of money) but want to cut James Young (who has more potential offensively) on a rookie scale contract? 

wait so you're comparing James Young to MKG?
One is a proven talented defender that can guard the PF and SF positions, with some upside potential.
The other is a 2nd year player who's shown that he can't defend in the NBA and can't score against NBA competition.
Obviously Young hasn't had much of an opportunity but please don't compare apples with oranges.